Are Two EOS M cameras coming in 2020? [CR1]

unfocused

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But it would mean they would muddy the waters of the branding that has made the EOS M system the best selling mirrorless ILC system on Earth.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The kinds of cameras and lenses you want for the M system make much more sense in the RF mount and EOS R system. Both from branding/marketing perspective and from an engineering perspective.
This "branding" exists only in the minds of camera geeks who waste time on this forum. The rest of the camera buying public could not care less about this supposed distinction. A top of the line M7 won't affect sales of the other M series cameras any more than the 7D affected the Rebels.

For the record, though, I don't "want" any particular system. I'll consider whatever Canon produces, whether it is M, R, EF or EF-S mount. Actually, if the R5 performs as well at it's marketing claims, I could be content with that and just crop my images.

I just happen to think that it makes sense for Canon to have one camera line that is full frame and one camera line that is APS-C. This seems to be the way they have been going with mirrorless and I think the handwriting on the wall is that they will continue down that road. As I've said before, given the average 7D user, they would only need to produce one or two lenses in the M mount for most buyers and I can't see them repeating the EF EF-S mess with different lenses for different size sensors in the RF system.

You keep hanging on to this idea that the "M" system is small and pocketable as somehow meaning they can not produce a larger body. That seems like a much smaller distinction than the one between APS-C and Full Frame sensors.

Only time will tell though and I really don't care from a personal standpoint.
 
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OremLK

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A new flagship M series body with IBIS is the camera I'm looking for, personally. Thought it was strange that the M6.II was not released alongside a camera with a built-in viewfinder. IBIS will also help with the small unstabilized primes that best suit a small APS-C system.
 
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OremLK

I'm New Here
Jun 17, 2019
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Also, my lens wishlist would include a compact, sharp zoom that starts ultrawide and extends to around 50mm (FF equivalent), like some of Panasonic's recent offerings. Something along the lines of 12-30mm would be great. Doesn't have to be bright as long as it's good optically. Basically, a better travel/landscape lens.

It was, alongside the 90D.
Totally different system? If I wanted a camera the size of a 90D I wouldn't be buying anything APS-C, unless I already had a big stash of EF-S lenses (I don't).
 

Michael Clark

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Apr 5, 2016
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Hi Michael, interesting point.

And with an M7 they will be going up against the 'cream of the crop frame cameras' from Sony and Fuji. In terms of size / performance and functionality an M7 would sit comfortably in a line up with those.
It remains to be seen in full, but based on what we've seen so far in the RF system my take is that Canon's response to the Fuji and Sony APS-C models is, "That's cute. Here, try this FF camera in the same general price range."
 
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nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
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I’ve had a thought. Don’t be shocked now it had to happen sooner or later.

If we look outside the Canon bubble for a moment, be strong people it won’t hurt I promise, which cameras would an M7 be competing against?

Answer is the XT-4 and the Sony A6600. Both have IBIS good face detect etc. And the XT-4 has twin card slots.

if you look the specs of those two, with some minor variations you have the M7.
Astute observation. With a shrinking camera market, Canon will most likely be going after all market segments. If Canon is taking the M to the fight, then look forward to more development with the M series.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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This "branding" exists only in the minds of camera geeks who waste time on this forum. The rest of the camera buying public could not care less about this supposed distinction. A top of the line M7 won't affect sales of the other M series cameras any more than the 7D affected the Rebels.

For the record, though, I don't "want" any particular system. I'll consider whatever Canon produces, whether it is M, R, EF or EF-S mount. Actually, if the R5 performs as well at it's marketing claims, I could be content with that and just crop my images.

I just happen to think that it makes sense for Canon to have one camera line that is full frame and one camera line that is APS-C. This seems to be the way they have been going with mirrorless and I think the handwriting on the wall is that they will continue down that road. As I've said before, given the average 7D user, they would only need to produce one or two lenses in the M mount for most buyers and I can't see them repeating the EF EF-S mess with different lenses for different size sensors in the RF system.

You keep hanging on to this idea that the "M" system is small and pocketable as somehow meaning they can not produce a larger body. That seems like a much smaller distinction than the one between APS-C and Full Frame sensors.

Only time will tell though and I really don't care from a personal standpoint.
I'm no more hung up on the idea that the defining feature of the M system is that it fits a certain marketing profile than you are hung up on the idea that sensor size is more important than branding and marketing to sales results.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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A new flagship M series body with IBIS is the camera I'm looking for, personally. Thought it was strange that the M6.II was not released alongside a camera with a built-in viewfinder. IBIS will also help with the small unstabilized primes that best suit a small APS-C system.
The fact that the M6 Mark II was designed with absolutely no way to use an eye level viewfinder and control off-camera flash at the same time tells you all you need to know about where Canon sees the EOS M system from a marketing perspective.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Astute observation. With a shrinking camera market, Canon will most likely be going after all market segments. If Canon is taking the M to the fight, then look forward to more development with the M series.
I'd be very surprised if Canon chooses to take on the Fuji and Sony APS-C bodies with the M series.

Their strategy seems to be to compete with those systems with very affordable full frame bodies such as the EOS RP and an even cheaper FF body that is rumored to be coming once Canon has filled out the non-L portion of the RF lens ecosystem a bit more.
 
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nchoh

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This "branding" exists only in the minds of camera geeks who waste time on this forum. The rest of the camera buying public could not care less about this supposed distinction. A top of the line M7 won't affect sales of the other M series cameras any more than the 7D affected the Rebels.

For the record, though, I don't "want" any particular system. I'll consider whatever Canon produces, whether it is M, R, EF or EF-S mount. Actually, if the R5 performs as well at it's marketing claims, I could be content with that and just crop my images.
And you are not wasting your time on this forum?

FYI, us forum dwellers are a very small group of camera buyers. Some of us spend a great deal of money on cameras. For these users, Canon sells the 5Ds and now the R5; expensive cameras. This makes them money and supports the pyramid of cameras from the 1D down to the M200. For the rest of the people, Canon sold Rebels and now M cameras. Canon will not trash one market segment for another.

I just happen to think that it makes sense for Canon to have one camera line that is full frame and one camera line that is APS-C. This seems to be the way they have been going with mirrorless and I think the handwriting on the wall is that they will continue down that road. As I've said before, given the average 7D user, they would only need to produce one or two lenses in the M mount for most buyers and I can't see them repeating the EF EF-S mess with different lenses for different size sensors in the RF system.

You keep hanging on to this idea that the "M" system is small and pocketable as somehow meaning they can not produce a larger body. That seems like a much smaller distinction than the one between APS-C and Full Frame sensors.

Only time will tell though and I really don't care from a personal standpoint.
Why do you think it makes sense for Canon to have one camera line that is FF and one that is APS-C?

I believe the current situation is only this way because the M is conceived and designed as a small compact and cheap camera, so it won't have a FF version, and because the R line is still not mature, that the time for Canon to release an APS-C R camera has not yet come. They might or they might not, but I can see no reason why Canon would make a rule - one line for APS-C and one line for FF.

Will the M7 affect sales of other M series cameras? Nomenclature does not. but the size and design of the M series will be determined by what Canon considers the market for M cameras.

I don't believe that anyone has said that Canon cannot produce a larger M body. I believe what has been said is that Canon probably does not want to produce larger M bodies due to design language.
 
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ctk

I'm New Here
Mar 25, 2020
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You miss the point, coherence is a marketing concept. Determine the market and then build products for that market.

The fact that majority of M buyers don't buy more lenses beyond the kit lens is even more reason for Canon to not develop more lenses let alone make lenses that moves away from the styling message that it current has. The fact that people like you and me use EF and EF-S lenses for our M cameras is a fact that is probably lost to Canon; how would they know? I use a 3rd party adapter with my EF and EFS lenses.
I get what coherence is in the context of marketing, I just don't see how it's relevant. I don't think EOS-M shoppers would be confused by an expanded lens lineup. EOS M has a decent amount of glass beyond kit stuff now; what damage would be done by some more?

I agree that changing the mount is a bad idea but a higher end body with some lenses to go with it would be fine.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I get what coherence is in the context of marketing, I just don't see how it's relevant. I don't think EOS-M shoppers would be confused by an expanded lens lineup. EOS M has a decent amount of glass beyond kit stuff now; what damage would be done by some more?

I agree that changing the mount is a bad idea but a higher end body with some lenses to go with it would be fine.
Higher end bodies and lenses would be even "finer" in the RF mount than the EF-M mount.
 

nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
305
190
Calgary
I get what coherence is in the context of marketing, I just don't see how it's relevant. I don't think EOS-M shoppers would be confused by an expanded lens lineup. EOS M has a decent amount of glass beyond kit stuff now; what damage would be done by some more?

I agree that changing the mount is a bad idea but a higher end body with some lenses to go with it would be fine.
Firstly, I am not saying that Canon will not add more lenses or more capable cameras to the M series. What I believe is that Canon currently is following a certain market and thus a certain design language for the M series, so no large lenses [60 mm rule]. More EFM lenses yes, bigger ones? No.

It is also apparent that within the small form factor of the M cameras, Canon is playing around a lot with different body styles. M6 = premium with no built-in EVF, M5 = premium with built-in EVF with more buttons, M200= small form factor. A higher end body is in the works as per this article. But I believe that it will still be roughly around the small body size of its siblings.

But what is a higher end body? Better video capabilities? More buttons, wheels or thumbstick? Better sensor? IBIS? According to this article, IBIS is in the works for the next M camera. The sensor is already great. Video capabilities and more buttons is probably out as the size of the M body is pretty much full as per the M5.

I don't see that Canon would move out of their M market at the moment... as long as it sells well. Personally, I would bet that Canon will eventually come out with a smaller APS-C R body to fulfill a market segment. An APS-C R body would be able to take the EFS lenses, giving Canon impetus to update the EFS lenses line up, making them more money. Then they will come out with an R-S(?) lens line and fill out that lens line as well... making them more money.
 
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ReflexVE

EOS M50
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May 5, 2020
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Yup great thinking and that was the plan, however now that has shifted to the next body ill replace it with. Smallcage rocks. (y)

I dont have much confidence in the m50, too many blurry images, so I no longer use it. Its the longest testing period for a camera ive ever had to to do (almost a year), but its never been reliable so off it goes.
I'm curious why that is. I'm admittedly a novice, but if I take a few hundred shots only maybe a dozen come out blurry. What scenarios are you having issues with? The only stuff I'm finding challenging is low light.
 

Bob Howland

EOS RP
CR Pro
Mar 25, 2012
577
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I’ve had a thought. Don’t be shocked now it had to happen sooner or later.

If we look outside the Canon bubble for a moment, be strong people it won’t hurt I promise, which cameras would an M7 be competing against?

Answer is the XT-4 and the Sony A6600. Both have IBIS good face detect etc. And the XT-4 has twin card slots.

if you look the specs of those two, with some minor variations you have the M7.
You'd also be competing with the bottom end of the R system, maybe not even the bottom. Consider an M7 that is basically an R6 with a 24 or 32MP APS-C sensor and an M mount, selling for $1600. R system sales would likely decrease and Canon would have raised its engineering, production and marketing costs. The sales of the M system would almost certainly increase but Canon would make less money because of increased costs.

Got that Michael???
 

ReflexVE

EOS M50
CR Pro
May 5, 2020
64
80
Renton, WA
You'd also be competing with the bottom end of the R system, maybe not even the bottom. Consider an M7 that is basically an R6 with a 24 or 32MP APS-C sensor and an M mount, selling for $1600. R system sales would likely decrease and Canon would have raised its engineering, production and marketing costs. The sales of the M system would almost certainly increase but Canon would make less money because of increased costs.

Got that Michael???
I don't see why this would be an issue, honestly. People buy an R for features they won't ever get on the M mount. Full frame sensor, more 'pro' controls, access to better accessories, higher end lenses. Pricing a hypothetical high end M mount camera at, say, $1399 would not erode R sales, people who buy the R need what it brings. And those who are confused by the distinction aren't really R customers to begin with.
 
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