Are Two EOS M cameras coming in 2020? [CR1]

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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This really just takes a chip in the speedbooster, which I believe is already what many if not most have. Translating protocols isn't that big a deal although it raises the cost of the device.
It doesn't even need that if everything is made by Canon. They'd just need firmware updates for the RF lenses to allow the RF lenses to operate at slower speeds using the fewer connection points the EF-M system has.
 
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Michael Clark

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The M6 Mark II is already pretty great. Just make a version with EVF, some weather sealing and a bit sharper and more detailed 4K video.
And some AF improvements from the R5/R6.

Also we really need a better standard zoom for the M mount. Maybe a 15-60 F4 or F2.8- 4, weather sealed and sharp. And no plastic mount.

I wonder if Canon could make an RF-M adaptor with lens elements.
"More detailed 4K video" is where the R5 and R6 begin to get into heating issues. One would assume a smaller body would be even more susceptible to such heating issues.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Due to recent events, to which I vowed to myself to not speak of again... Ha

“all the bells and whistles” is the kinda statement that gets them in trouble... Because now I actually want a bell attached to my camera lololol

Ps for the dummies out there, I am aware it's not an official statement, please understand what a jest is! Lol
But, but, but... but just because it's a rumor published by someone not affiliated with Canon in any official capacity doesn't mean Canon is not totally touting this camera as having "all of the bells and whistles!"

Canon must deliver on such promises or they are doomed, I tell you, D - O - O - M - E - D, DOOMED!!!!
 
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Michael Clark

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Apr 5, 2016
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Have you considered that the vast majority of buyers of the M system maybe buying into the M system because of the nice neat little lens in the collection?
The vast majority of folks here refuse to acknowledge that the EOS M series has been so successful precisely because it is aimed at a market that does not include them as the target buyer.

They're apparently incapable of conceiving that compact, lightweight, and affordable is what has attracted buyers to the EOS M system in droves. Perhaps this is because compact, lightweight, and affordable are not the primary feature they care about in a camera and lens system? And that they can not conceive that they are in the minority of the world's population in this respect?
 
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Michael Clark

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Apr 5, 2016
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Is this 61mm rule official? I really hope they break it and release some bigger lenses.
In the eight years plus that the EOS M system has existed, every single EF-M lens they've released is 61mm in diameter, +/- 0.2mm or so.

EVERY.SINGLE.LENS.
 

Michael Clark

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Sounds good. People who want Canon to discontinue this line for an “R” mount APS-C don’t understand why Canon kneels upgrading the cameras and continues to make new lenses for it. It’s pretty simp,e, as I keep telling them. This is a very popular camera line. Why should Canon abandon it for something else?
It's very popular precisely because it appeals to buyers looking for compact, light, and affordable cameras and lenses. That is something that apparently most of the folks here find incomprehensible.

Just because Canon may introduce larger, more advanced APS-C bodies with more weather sealing into the RF system does not mean Canon must stop making the compact, lightweight, and more affordable EOS M bodies and EF-M lenses as some folks here seem to believe!
 

Michael Clark

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The M6 Mk II is the camera right now with Vloggers
That may well be the case, but that does not mean that vloggers in North America and Western Europe are buying those camera in numbers that are anything remotely more than a drop in the bucket when compared to the numbers of units bought by the hordes of more typical EOS M owners.
 

Michael Clark

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I am still waiting for the EF-M equivalent of EF 50mm STM. I hope this will be the next lens and with about same price range.
For decades Canon APS-C shooters had been begging Canon for a cheap, fast 35mm "equivalent" instead of 80mm "equivalent" to the EF 50mm f/1.8. In other words, they wanted a cheap, fast EF-S 22mm lens, or even a 50mm "equivalent" 35/1.8 DX like Nikon offered.

So once the shorter registration distance of the EF-M mount made that possible without requiring a retrofocus design Canon gave them what they asked for in the EF-M 22mm f/2.
 

koenkooi

EOS R
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Feb 25, 2015
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"More detailed 4K video" is where the R5 and R6 begin to get into heating issues. One would assume a smaller body would be even more susceptible to such heating issues.
Not a smoking gun, but the 90D has a downsampling 4k mode, while the M6II line skips and upsamples. So same sensor, same digic and the bigger camera gets better quality video. That and the lack of EFCS in the M6II makes me think there's more in that camera that was disabled in software to make it perform to Canon reliability standards.
 
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Michael Clark

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I have considered that.

But the people who'd buy this camera won't care. And neither would the people who like the 61mm form factor, either--none of those is going away! In fact, if they want to produce a whole raft more of lenses whose main feature is 61mm diameter, more power to them, but that shouldn't stop them from occasionally producing something bigger.

I hope they go to a situation where lots of lenses are consistently 61mm in diameter, but there are a few "advanced" lenses such as long zooms, or wide aperture primes 50mm and greater, that are a bit wider.
But why wouldn't Canon continue to steer potential buyers of such cameras and lenses to the RF system, where such lense certainly already exist now and will exist in even greater numbers in the near future?

Such buyers would almost certainly be tempted by many other things offered in the RF system that aren't included in the EF-M system. On the other hand, if such a buyer goes into the EF-M system, there's not much else up the scale to potentially sell to them.
 

Robbie_B

CR Pro
Apr 11, 2020
3
1
For semi-serious amateur photography I have an EOS RP with three native lenses and adapters for Older EF lenses. However, when I go on a trip, perhaps when I USED to go on a trip before the Apocalypse, my single bag has M5, 4 or 5 lenses, spare batteries, charger, filters, gorilla pod, mini speedlight etc. And as a pensioner, I don't need a packhorse to lug the gear. THAT is the major benefit of the M mount camera system for me. I gave my M50 with the kit lens and 55-200 to my 13 year old granddaughter and she now is a hooked photographer/videographer. Canon has a winning system in the M Mount and i assume they will be with us for a long time.
 
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Bob Howland

EOS RP
CR Pro
Mar 25, 2012
544
145
If the 7d Mk III is a stupid m camera, I will be sorely peeved. Canon, just make a pro build APS-C already!!!!
You can always use an R5 in APS-C mode. Or maybe Canon will add an APS-H mode in some future firmware upgrade. That's pretty close to Super-35 video size.
 

jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
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Aug 25, 2015
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In the eight years plus that the EOS M system has existed, every single EF-M lens they've released is 61mm in diameter, +/- 0.2mm or so.

EVERY.SINGLE.LENS.
That doesn't make it a rule, does it? It's a chicken/egg thing here. All the lenses are small because there are no larger EF-M bodies. Adding a larger EF-M body would make it more sensible to have larger lenses.

There's no physical limit on the size of an EF-M lens, it's just marketing.
 

GadgetDave

I'm New Here
CR Pro
Nov 30, 2016
13
8
"More detailed 4K video" is where the R5 and R6 begin to get into heating issues. One would assume a smaller body would be even more susceptible to such heating issues.
Possibly - but the # of transistors certainly contributes to the heating - which is probably part of why the overheating problem on the R5 > R6 > A7s III. (We obviously know these sensors are the same physical size but only know MP counts, not transistor counts, so I'm guessing).

The additional thing is that an APS-C sensor is physically only about 38% the size of a FF sensor (332 mm2 vs 864 mm2), so the smaller size might also contribute to a difference in heating, all other things being equal (which we don't know if they are).

Certainly if it's only 4K video, one thing sony did to get "more detailed video" was increase the size of the photosensors, keeping the sensor at only ~ 12MP. So you have to wonder what you can do with the sensor in the M6II?
 

nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
288
167
Calgary
I have considered that.

But the people who'd buy this camera won't care. ...
Actually, it is quite an important factor that Canon is banking on. Coherence is a very big principle in marketing. When buyers look at the M series they see a small lightweight system that is uniformly designed. That's important to selling to a very large market. Add in some very big lenses to the M line up and what do you get? M series is generally small but if I want to do everything, I might have to get some big lenses. Very different sales message.
 

AprilForever

EOS RP
Aug 31, 2010
767
14
aprilforever.com
I don't think you've actually used EF-M mount cameras and lenses seriously, have you?

Firstly, just because previous M bodies are "terribly dinky little boxes" doesn't mean that future ones have to be. Camera size tends to be dictated by marketing. The majority of M users want something small and lightweight. Clearly an 7D series replacement wouldn't be small and light - but it absolutely could use the EF-M mount.

M lenses are far from laughable. The EF-M prime lenses are fantastic, and the EF-M 11-18 ultra-wide angle zoom is superb.

A premium APS-C camera targeted as an upgrade to 7D II users could easily be an EF-M camera. It would still work with every lens an 7D user would currently own.

Imagine something the same size body and ergonomics as the R5 or R6, but with EF-M mount, better thermal management (because of smaller sensor) and a bundled EF-M to EF adaptor (improved over the existing one, with weather sealing). There's also no reason why Canon couldn't produce new EF->EF-M adaptors with drop-in filters or control rings either.

Of course, Canon could still launch an R mount body instead. We can't rule out either option right now.
They going to make a 600 f4 M? I don't think so. The glass I use on my 7d mk II would not work on m. And, no, throwing in some adapter is not a solution! There are many, many problems introduced by an adapter. Poor weather resistance (ever used big glass in the surf, full of salty sand and water?), reduced function (even a marginal difference means missed shots in bird photography), and mount damage (this adds one more flex point and more leverage against a very small mount!) all pose huge problems. This is not remotely a 7d replacement! I would like a direct 7d replacement indeed, love a APS C or APS H pro body. No, crop mode in a fullframe is not the same. I want the camera to be optomized as a crop camera, not some sort of kludged afrerthought!
 

Bob Howland

EOS RP
CR Pro
Mar 25, 2012
544
145
Actually, it is quite an important factor that Canon is banking on. Coherence is a very big principle in marketing. When buyers look at the M series they see a small lightweight system that is uniformly designed. That's important to selling to a very large market. Add in some very big lenses to the M line up and what do you get? M series is generally small but if I want to do everything, I might have to get some big lenses. Very different sales message.
I'm not sure how important "coherence" is. For better or worse, look at Fuji. They typically have lenses in the same focal length or range from slow and cheap(er) to fast and expensive. The Fuji X-t4, X-t30 and X-T200 all have different price points and capabilities but use the same lens mount. The sales message that Canon is sending now is that if you want to do "everything" with your canon M5 or M6-2, you need to use EF lenses or buy into the R system. I don't think Canon would lose much if they enlarged their 60mm diameter limit to 72mm. That's about the diameter of the Sigma 16f/1.4.