Are you experiencing this phenomenon with IBIS on your Canon EOS R5?

Ramage

EOS R5
CR Pro
Aug 27, 2019
598
1,246
On a tripod, after a few seconds, the problem does not happen anymore,
It’s like the camera knows it’s on a tripod and maybe automatically disables ibis.
And the problem “I think” it’s due to the camera trying to compensate a twists that’s it expect when the button is pressed. But as there is not twist if you press carefully, the camera is overcompensating thus the issue I see... this is only my theory, that this is just a software bug, but there are some people that can’t reproduce the issue, so I don’t really know what’s going on...
I think you are right that the Camera is overcompensating. The system is making a calculated guess on the amount of IBIS compensation to apply on the first shot as it might not have the total gyro data yet.

This might be a bit of a stretch but I think of it like the blackout we see on the first shot in highspeed shutter. The Camera has no last frame to insert so we see a black screen after the first image. In the case of IBIS, the system might be always on but not fully awake and active to the users movements even if slight. If this is the case Canon could and should have the camera have the slightest delay on the first shot to allow the IBIS system to be fully active.

I am not 100% sure I have seen this on my R5 or R6 but I might have on the first outing back in July 2020 with the R5 - I took a handheld single shot of a gate that I was sure should be sharp but it was a hot mess when I reviewed the shot later. I use a tripod 95% of the time unless shooting wildlife and when shooting wildlife I expect the occasional blurry image.
 

Viggo

EOS R5
Dec 13, 2010
4,882
1,540
Dumb question. but why?
I use mechanical because the EFCS is much worse to forget to turn off than the other way around. And correct me if I'm wrong, but EFSC is only 12 or 13 bit, not 14.
 
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Ramage

EOS R5
CR Pro
Aug 27, 2019
598
1,246
I use mechanical because the EFCS is much worse to forget to turn off than the other way around. And correct me if I'm wrong, but EFSC is only 12 or 13 bit, not 14.
Correct EFSC lowers the bit rate and can mess with the Bokeh but I find it not that noticeable(not sure I have ever noticed it). If I am on the tripod (95% of the time) I use fully mechanical with IBIS off and Manual focus (why did I buy a camera with amazing auto focus??? oh yeah wildlife)

@Viggo Not sure I would classify it as "much worse" but I get your point and cannot speak to your experience with the shutter modes :)
 
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Viggo

EOS R5
Dec 13, 2010
4,882
1,540
Correct EFSC lowers the bit rate and can mess with the Bokeh but I find it not that noticeable(not sure I have ever noticed it). If I am on the tripod (95% of the time) I use fully mechanical with IBIS off and Manual focus (why did I buy a camera with amazing auto focus??? oh yeah wildlife)

@Viggo Not sure I would classify it as "much worse" but I get your point and cannot speak to your experience with the shutter modes :)
I’ve done quite a few comparisons with EFCS and mechanical with fast lenses and fast speeds and it makes my RF85L look pretty gritty and busy with more dof when using EFCS, so I never use it. Had a few rounds of tests now and I for one can’t see a difference in sharpness between the two modes, unless I’m at 3-400%.
 
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juanmaasecas

EOS M50
Mar 30, 2021
27
67
I use mechanical because the EFCS is much worse to forget to turn off than the other way around. And correct me if I'm wrong, but EFSC is only 12 or 13 bit, not 14.
Fully electronic is 12 bits and the lower dynamic range is pretty visible at low iso.
But I think EFCS is 14 bits just like mechanical.
you need to take care about the bokeh issues over 1/1000s with efcs, that’s right.
 
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Viggo

EOS R5
Dec 13, 2010
4,882
1,540
Fully electronic is 12 bits and the lower dynamic range is pretty visible at low iso.
But I think EFCS is 14 bits just like mechanical.
you need to take care about the bokeh issues over 1/1000s with efcs, that’s right.
Mecahnical is only 14 bit up to 8 fps.
 
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juanmaasecas

EOS M50
Mar 30, 2021
27
67
I’ve done quite a few comparisons with EFCS and mechanical with fast lenses and fast speeds and it makes my RF85L look pretty gritty and busy with more dof when using EFCS, so I never use it. Had a few rounds of tests now and I for one can’t see a difference in sharpness between the two modes, unless I’m at 3-400%.
EFCS is 14 bits just like mechanical except in H+

from Canon:
“JPEG: 2 compression options RAW: RAW, C-RAW 14 bit (14-bit with Mechanical shutter and Electronic 1st Curtain, 13-bit A/D conversion with H+ mode, 12-bit A/D conversion with Electronic shutter,”

 
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MiJax

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 30, 2016
68
66
California
www.flickr.com
He would need to eliminate the obvious errors in the testing first. I've always chalked this up to the shutter press causing movement. To test that, simply handhold the camera while the timer takes two shots as a control set. If the behavior is the same, maybe there's something to it.
 

t.linn

EOS R5
Jan 12, 2011
186
63
Oregon - USA
www.tlinn.com
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, it is the very first shot after powering on or waking the camera up that is affected? After that, things work as expected?
 
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JordanCS13

EOS R5 | R6
Aug 1, 2020
30
89
www.admiringlight.com
I am one of those he's mentioned that has confirmed the behavior on both my R5 and R6. First shot has the twisting...the rest are fine. It resets if I review images on the LCD, change modes or turn the camera off, so after doing those things, the next shot will have the twisting again on the next first shot.

Changing the IS mode to "only for shot" eliminates the problem, so I have done that until Canon can update the firmware to fix this.
 
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risto0

EOS M50
May 27, 2013
33
34
Estonia
www.ristohunt.eu
does it happen when you take the shot immediately when turning on the camera or exit from reviewing images? If you turn on the camera, wait for, let's say 10 seconds, does it happen then as well?
 

AJ

EOS R
Sep 11, 2010
802
224
When it comes at AF, cameras don't expose until they get AF confirmation (unless you override this).
It seems to me that the R5 doesn't do a good job of waiting for IBIS confirmation. The system should not allow exposure until IBIS has settled in, unless the user chooses to override. To me this seems to be a firmware issue.
 

degos

EOS RP
Mar 20, 2015
427
368
IBIS is a tool, if you want to screw a screw in don’t pick up a hammer.

This is exactly the use-case for IBIS, why do you think it's being used inappropriately?

To extend your bizarre metaphor, every time you use this screwdriver it shears the head off the first screw.
 
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Viggo

EOS R5
Dec 13, 2010
4,882
1,540
When it comes at AF, cameras don't expose until they get AF confirmation (unless you override this).
It seems to me that the R5 doesn't do a good job of waiting for IBIS confirmation. The system should not allow exposure until IBIS has settled in, unless the user chooses to override. To me this seems to be a firmware issue.
This doesn’t happen because one is to quick to release the shutter. I can wait 20 seconds and this still happens.
 

tiggy@mac.com

R5
CR Pro
Jan 20, 2014
839
818
Thetford, VT
www.camnostic.com
I tried 6 RF lenses, and I was able to get two of them to replicate the problem for a time. But then they didn't. I then locked all of them down on a tripod and reshot the tests, and none of them show the problem.

This may be because:
1) I'm just not good at replicating the problem and am doing it wrong
2) We're all seeing shutter button mashing effect and attributing it to IBIS
3) The tripod is sensed and the problem is going away because the camera is turning off the problem due to it knowing it's on a tripod (although I deliberately rocked the camera the camera from startup to 1 second before testing so that it would minimize the odds of the camera detecting the tripod)

I've been shooting at 1/8th of a second for these latest tests to maximize the visible effect. Trying lenses with lens IS and without. All RF glass.
 
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usern4cr

R5
CR Pro
Sep 2, 2018
1,283
2,155
Kentucky, USA
I could imagine what he's experiencing may not be IBIS' fault but the simple fact that the Pressing of the shutter button itself introduces camera shake which of course is mostly gone by te time the second picture is taken. At least that has been my experience with the R5. Can anyone check whether they can reproduce this on a tripod with a wireless remote release?
I second this thought! If you don't test this on a tripod with a remote shutter release then you will always have the shutter press & release issue which will affect the motion of the camera. IMHO, this should have been tested & verified on a tripod with remote release before mentioning it on this site.