Big Megapixels Coming Soon? [CR1]

[Ricku]

Ok. more megapixels. That was always going to happen.

But will the sensor be any better?
Will it still have vertical banding up the wazoo in dark areas?
Will the read noise be the same?
Will the dynamic response be about the same?

What was so good about the D800 wasn't just the increase in number of pixels but the quality of those pixels.

+1!
I was just about to write this, but you beat me to it.

If Canon's high MP camera doesn't deliver in the IQ department (Dynamic range, read noise, no bandning, e.t.c) they won't get my money.

Not to be a pessimist, but I think it will be 3 - 4 more years before Canon can produce a sensor like the one in the D800.

And even if Canon could do it right now, they will hold back because they are afraid to anger all the 5D3 buyers. Especially the ones who pretends that they don't care about improved DR.

 

[briansquibb]

If Canon's high MP camera doesn't deliver in the IQ department (Dynamic range, read noise, no bandning, e.t.c) they won't get my money.

Not to be a pessimist, but I think it will be 3 - 4 more years before Canon can produce a sensor like the one in the D800.

I am more optimistic - in 2007 Canon produced the 1DS3 whose sensor delivered performance than only now has Nikon been able to surpass - and then in not all areas

If Canon could produce such a sensor 5 years ago then I can see no reason why they cant do it again

 

[Mr Simpleton]

Browsing the comments... it seems Canon will fail big time no matter what they do!

Seriously... if they do get the sensor to perform like the 1Dx and with twice the pixels it sound like a winner! Compare this with the new focusing system with the superb repetability (see lensrentals blog) it will be one sweet camera.

 

[greenlimabeans]

For those who doubt the value of more megapixels, a very interesting read:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2012/02/d800-megapixels.html

Personally, the focusing on my 5dii is just adequate for me, so there's no reason to lust after a 5diii with indistinguishable sensor quality at reasonable ISOs.

I'm pretty much locked into Canon by my lenses, plus my familiarity with the controls layout, but I do lust after the image quality and lack of vertical banding when pulling dark areas, huge DR and lovely, even noise of the d800.

Canon, please just buy the Sony sensor and make a d800 clone but with decent live view. And while you're at it, update the 50mm f1.4 to do it justice. Then I'll have no choice but to throw $4500 or so your way.

 

[Ricku]

If Canon's high MP camera doesn't deliver in the IQ department (Dynamic range, read noise, no bandning, e.t.c) they won't get my money.

Not to be a pessimist, but I think it will be 3 - 4 more years before Canon can produce a sensor like the one in the D800.

I am more optimistic - in 2007 Canon produced the 1DS3 whose sensor delivered performance than only now has Nikon been able to surpass - and then in not all areas

If Canon could produce such a sensor 5 years ago then I can see no reason why they cant do it again

So why does it seem like most of their sensor development has come to a halt? ..Just look at the 5D3 sensor. I admit that the 5D3 is a fine camera, but the sensor is quite underwhelming. No bump in resolution, no DR improvement at normal ISOs. And yes, it even inherited vertical lines of pattern noise from the 5D2!

I too like to believe that Canon's sensor devs still knows how to innovate and improve, but it sure doesn't look like it.

Browsing the comments... it seems Canon will fail big time no matter what they do!

Seriously... if they do get the sensor to perform like the 1Dx and with twice the pixels it sound like a winner! Compare this with the new focusing system with the superb repetability (see lensrentals blog) it will be one sweet camera.

Dear Simpleton. I am not seeing what you are seeing.

The general consensus among the comments is simply that Canon needs to step up it's sensor development and release a high MP sensor with more DR and no banding.

There is nothing wrong with that, because Nikon / Sony (Canon's main competition) are already way ahead in terms of sensor tech.

 

[briansquibb]

Roll on the 120mp APS-H sensor Canon produced in 2010

 

[DzPhotography]

I smell Nikon fanboys

 

[Canon-F1]

a 30-32 MP body with better DR and better shadow noise then the current 22MP sensor would be nice. better quantum efficiency of canon sensors. a sensor that closes the gap to sony.

but canon would make more money with a below 2000$ FF camera i think.
and no.. i don´t want to buy 4 year old tech.... and i don´t really see the 5D MK2, as good as it is (i have one ), as competition to the coming D600.

i don´t want a 1D body as it will only make the camera more expensiv... i never broke a rebel so why would i need a 1D body? weather sealing yes but it does not need to be magensium alloy body.

 

[wickidwombat]

Roll on the 120mp APS-H sensor Canon produced in 2010

Agreed they should just release this and tell everyone to stfu

 

[XanuFoto]

When the Camera is released its to plug the gap in the line up. Many small studio people used the 5D with a few lenses and could move D800 quickly. Just give them a high MP body to stay from moving. That said I am pretty sure they did sell alot of 5D MK III.

 

[RLPhoto]

If it surpasses or just evenly matches the D800 in RAW IQ. Alot of 5d3 users will be quite angry at canon. (Me Included)

Why?

You bought the best Canon camera that satisfied your needs and budget that was available at that point in time.

Seriously, people who think like this about digital cameras need a reality check.

It's not that the 5d3 is a good camera. It's the best camera I've ever shot with.

It's that canon could have done better but chose not to. Instead recycled tech to make more profits and then releases another camera we really wanted with a sensor superior to the 5d3 for around the same monies.

Digital cameras rot, an unfortunate truth but a reality. If this new camera is equally priced to the 5D3 with equal IQ to the d800, expect 5D3 prices to plummet.

 

[XanuFoto]

RPLPhoto

This is the way I look at it. If you are able to make money with the 5D MKIII then you should be happy. If you believe you can make more money using a higher pixel camera you could either move to Nikon or wait for Canon to release their high MP camera. The choices are still there and I love the fact the choices are still there. When the D700 did not have video and people wanted video they moved to the 5D. When the D700 guys wanted just video and not high MP they really did not get what they wanted. The point I am making is we do not control what marketing decisions these pick companies make. What I know is these guys cannot ever satisfy every customer. The only thing I can control is to go out the and shoot the best images I can using the best equipment that works for my budget and business. You look at the photographer galleries at the London Olympics and they still seem to be dominated by Canon gear. These guys make money from their trade. And if Canon has kept them happy then I guess someone in their marketing has got it right. JMHO.

 

[EchoLocation]

I am tired of Canon offering similar or inferior products to Nikon and pricing them significantly higher.

...you mean, like featherweight Big Whites, the TS-E 17 and 24 II, the MP-E 65, the built-in radio flash ETTL triggers, the entire Cinema line, the 12 FPS 1DX...?

Get a grip, man. Nikon's got a marginal advantage on one aspect of one feature of their cameras -- one that even comes with far more substantial image quality problems than it "solves" (color balance problems especially).

Sure, Nikon ekes out an extra stop or two of shadow recovery in scenes with truly miserable light. And if you make your living shooting in truly miserable light and you really need ISO 400-equivalent noise in your four-stops-pushed shadows as opposed to ISO 1000-equivalent noise, then maybe the D800 really is best for you.

But don't kid yourself into thinking that Nikon's making better cameras, let alone a better camera system. The stop or two of "extra" noise in the Canon shadows notwithstanding, the 5DIII blows the D800 out of the water. Color rendition, autofocus speed, autofocus reliability, framerate -- all those things that separate a modern camera from a Brownie, the Canon has the D800 beat hands down.

Cheers,

b&

No one is arguing that Nikon has a more complete system than Canon. Heck, I bought in to Canon's system by choice just a few years ago.
If I needed tilt shift or exotic zooms I'd most likely get Canon at this point. However, I am simply an amateur enthusiast who wants some competetively priced awesome performing fast primes, zooms and the occasional new body.
The new Canon primes aren't particularly fast(2.8: 24mm, 28mm, 40mm,) and 2/3rds of these are extremely expensive for what they are. The new Nikon primes have been 1.8 and similarly priced if not cheaper(no pancake.)
I like the 5DIII, but I think it is very overpriced. I love the 24-70 II, but I think it's very overpriced as well. The 1DX is 800 dollars more expensive than the D4 and I'm not hearing many people with a D4 complaining.
The D7000 kills any APS-C Canon camera in terms of image quality and DR, and it is much cheaper than a 7D.
I know there are other variables than what I have mentioned, but for me, a person who travels constantly, shoots for fun, likes to save money and travel as light as possible, the last year of following Canon has been a lot of bad news.
Anyone talking about exotic glass, tilt shifts and 1DX's obviously is pretty deep in whatever system they have chosen and are likely to not be a candidate for switching to the dark side. A high priced, high MP camera is made exactly for a person with these lenses and fully entrenched in the system. But I am very skeptical of Canon being able to make a sensor better than the current Sony sensor in the D800. If the price ends up being where it is rumored to be at now(i remember hearing 4K, or north) then it will just be another in a string of products which are more expensive than competitors. I hope this trend doesn't continue.

 

[XanuFoto]

EchoLocation,

Canon and Nikon will sell and price their cameras at a point where they can sell. As long as you have reached a point as a photographer where your skill level can overcome the equipment deficiences you should not have any problems with either. Nikon and Canon are the top 2 companies now and even year of two one of them will be in a slight lead. Don't let minor diffrences get in the way of you photography.

 

[RLPhoto]

RPLPhoto

This is the way I look at it. If you are able to make money with the 5D MKIII then you should be happy. If you believe you can make more money using a higher pixel camera you could either move to Nikon or wait for Canon to release their high MP camera. The choices are still there and I love the fact the choices are still there. When the D700 did not have video and people wanted video they moved to the 5D. When the D700 guys wanted just video and not high MP they really did not get what they wanted. The point I am making is we do not control what marketing decisions these pick companies make. What I know is these guys cannot ever satisfy every customer. The only thing I can control is to go out the and shoot the best images I can using the best equipment that works for my budget and business. You look at the photographer galleries at the London Olympics and they still seem to be dominated by Canon gear. These guys make money from their trade. And if Canon has kept them happy then I guess someone in their marketing has got it right. JMHO.

I could make money with a d30 if I wanted too. I prefer the usability of newer tech but that's another conversation for a different thread.

Canon used to innovate and deliver the best they could in the 1Ds days. Now it seems they've been listening too much to accountants than photographers in not doing there very best. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mathino]

EchoLocation,

Canon and Nikon will sell and price their cameras at a point where they can sell. As long as you have reached a point as a photographer where your skill level can overcome the equipment deficiences you should not have any problems with either. Nikon and Canon are the top 2 companies now and even year of two one of them will be in a slight lead. Don't let minor diffrences get in the way of you photography.

You are right. They price it at point that makes sense for them to have such a product.

I like Canon mainly because of control layout and menus etc - its more user friendly and quicker to adjust/learn. I had a chance to shoot with some sort of Nikon (lower end DSLR) and all button placement and menus were so unnutural to me (I was not able to access 2nd curtain sync on flash and via menu). But, it was on location and I havent got chance to study manual. For me - working with Canon DSLRs feels just more fluent.

And...If you know your equip and its limits (how to overcome them) then brand is not important because you can get your desired result with both.

My 2 cents to more DR/more MPx/5D Mk III discussion:

• as far as I can remember, complanis about 5D Mk II were mainly in regard of its AF and maybe slow burst rate - nothing about not enough reoslution and dynamic range - so Canon responded to complains upgraded AF to best and gived us 6 fps and all-in-all better all-around camera
• 5D Mk III - seems to me like more 1Ds Mk III replacement in smaller package - higher FPS, +- same MPx etc with video
• 5D-X or whatever it will be - true studio oriented camera, I think that Canon is developing 45-47 MPx sensor for it, probably 4 fps at most, ISO to 6400 and better DR to addres it as D800 competitor, priced around 4 k
• pricing of 5D-X - 4k becasue I think that it will be better then D800 (+- same DR), maybe even 4K video - and Canon users will pay for it
• last thing - no way you get 45-47 MPx from Canon cheaper then 5D Mk III, if price for 5D Mk III falls to 2500 USD then maybe 5D-X would be around 3500 USD

 

[Bosman]

I'm going to have to take issue that anyone was screwed by Canon or this rumored high mp camera. I use my 5dm3 with complete satisfaction cept some niggles like focus point viewablity.
The other i take issue with is that people think the 5dm2 stole the ground from the 1dsm3, like that could happen. Canon made it for those who need the build and durability and those who did got what they wanted, they didn't buy a 5dm2 instead. Seriously, Canon isn't hurt by you not buying a 1d series. They made it for the hc pro's and anyone who wants to plop down the money.
I don't feel sympathetic to anyone in the 1dx camp, those who bought it bought it with full knowledge of what it was made of and put their money down. Theres nothing to feel remorse over, you got what you paid for. Its no slouch at that either. If you didn't buy the 1dx because it didn't help you much then you don't upgrade, if you did then you prob just had money to burn for the latest tech. No one can blame Canon if their gear is obsolete to the purchaser when you knew what you were agreeing to when you bought it. I'd say if the 5dm3 or 1dx doesn't fit your upgrade path then wait, or swtich to Nikon for the d800. I never believed Canon would only have the 1dx, i figured they had to come out with something with major resolution and it doesn't have to be called a 1d. It can have the build and size of the 1d but it doesn't have to be. When they claim to have merged the line it didn't mean they didn't have something more exotic planned.
Some will never be happy and i feel sorry for you.

 

[bdunbar79]

I'm going to have to take issue that anyone was screwed by Canon or this rumored high mp camera. I use my 5dm3 with complete satisfaction cept some niggles like focus point viewablity.
The other i take issue with is that people think the 5dm2 stole the ground from the 1dsm3, like that could happen. Canon made it for those who need the build and durability and those who did got what they wanted, they didn't buy a 5dm2 instead. Seriously, Canon isn't hurt by you not buying a 1d series. They made it for the hc pro's and anyone who wants to plop down the money.
I don't feel sympathetic to anyone in the 1dx camp, those who bought it bought it with full knowledge of what it was made of and put their money down. Theres nothing to feel remorse over, you got what you paid for. Its no slouch at that either. If you didn't buy the 1dx because it didn't help you much then you don't upgrade, if you did then you prob just had money to burn for the latest tech. No one can blame Canon if their gear is obsolete to the purchaser when you knew what you were agreeing to when you bought it. I'd say if the 5dm3 or 1dx doesn't fit your upgrade path then wait, or swtich to Nikon for the d800. I never believed Canon would only have the 1dx, i figured they had to come out with something with major resolution and it doesn't have to be called a 1d. It can have the build and size of the 1d but it doesn't have to be. When they claim to have merged the line it didn't mean they didn't have something more exotic planned.
Some will never be happy and i feel sorry for you.

I agree with everything you said except, The 5D Mark II actually DID steal ground from the 1Ds Mark III. That is a well-known fact. I even bought the 5D Mark II instead back then, because it was cheaper and had the same resolution. Most of the pros I knew from 2008-current never owned a 1Ds3 simply because of the 5D Mark II.

 

[mathino]

as far as I can remember, complanis about 5D Mk II were mainly in regard of its AF and maybe slow burst rate - nothing about not enough reoslution and dynamic range - so Canon responded to complains upgraded AF to best and gived us 6 fps and all-in-all better all-around camera

That was before the D800 existed.

Now the D800 exists so that is now the yard stick by which every other DSLR of that form factor will be measured when it comes to IQ.

The D800 ushered in a new era of DSLR with its sensor just as the 10D with its price and the 5DMarkII did with HD video.

True, Im not denying that. But D800 was announced on 7th of February and 5D Mk III month later. What Im trying to say is that 5D Mk III development could have ended months before D800 announcement so no possibility to respond.

I think that Canon is aware of DR/high MPx problem and they make sure that their response would be equal/better in terms of DR with even higher MPx count - and they would ask for it more dollars than D800. Sure, new high MPx wont be for new comers - but 5D Mk III is not for enthusiasts too (in terms of price). D600 and 6D (entry level FF) would be for people entering FF world. Then from 6D you can upgrade either to 5D Mk III, high MPx body or 1D-X - depends on needs and profitability of such investment.

 

[mathino]

If the leaked image of the D600 LCD panel is anything to go by then it will have DPS, 51 point focus, WiFi support and HDR.

How many of those features will be in the next FF Canon DSLR?

Well, if you check D800 manual (pages 10-12 I think) you will see its exactly the same informational screen as D800. So its rather a good hoax - nothing more. On Nikon rumors it is stated that this comes from some facebook page of Thailand photographer (who has a lot of D800 pics in his albums).

But, its strange that its quiet about both "entry level" FF from Canon and Nikon.