C-Log Coming to EOS 5D Mark IV Confirmed [CR3]

preppyak said:
Adding C-Log, changing up the codec to not be MJPEG, and even getting the crop to 1.6x for 4k would actually be a pretty solid combo for the firmware upgrade.

Itd make it a lot more competitive with the GH5 and Sony A7 series, while also having the benefit of being a much better photo system.
Highly doubt dumb Canon will remove MJPEG format, generally Canon is one step forward two steps back approach with developing cameras. Even I wish that overbloated crappy MJPEG format would die for good but since dumb canon is worried about protecting their "expensive" cameras, I dont see that happening.
 
Upvote 0
cpsico said:
I have this camera only for stills and never use video for anything serious, is this something I should be excited about? What is a good video editing program that won't break the bank?

Is it something you should be excited about? Probably not. If you're happy with the video options the camera gives you now, then Log will probably only confuse the issue, because generally, log gamma's require grading, usually with a LUT (although c-log really doesn't need one). If you want more control over the tonal range, then, yes, the inclusion of Log could be exciting. C-log can probably be handled without a LUT in a free editor like iMovie, or with a LUT in Resolve (which is also free, but has a steep learning curve and fancy equipment requirements). Final Cut Pro is one of the best values in an NLE $299 for a program that you can install on as many machines as you like and has never had a paid update.
 
Upvote 0
In my opinion, the reduced compression of MJPEG actually helps when working with clog. The compressed gradations in the midtones and shadows of the picture profile falls apart pretty easily when dealing with a highly compressed codec. The Panasonic people discovered this when they finally got their highly desired vlog. Despite how some people discuss it, clog really isn't an improvement in the video quality or capture. It is just useful in high contrast shots when you want to protect the information available in the highlights and want to do some color grading in post.

Hopefully, Canon figures out a way to implement some decent noise reduction if they add clog since that seems to make it one of the components that makes it useable in the cinema cameras.
 
Upvote 0
Chaitanya said:
since dumb canon is worried about protecting their "expensive" cameras, I dont see that happening.

i wish people would stop with this dumb comments not supported with any rational facts as well, but I don't see that happening either :)

FYI.. canon only has h.264 compression on vented air cooled video cameras. want to explain to me how they could do that on a 5D Mark IV?

or are you just speculating and because it makes it sound like you know what you're talking about, you're spouting out a tired myth that's been dispelled many times?
 
Upvote 0
Sharlin said:
pwp said:
As an aside, I have a GH4 and was stunned to find out very early on that 60 seconds of 4K on the GH4 took up roughly the same amount of storage as 60 seconds of 1080p on my 5D MkIII.

Well, one can always compress to whatever bitrate one wants... 4K resolution is pretty useless if the bitrate is close to 1080p.

Sure, but in my real-world the GH4 4k downsampled to 1080p leaves the 5DIII 1080p gasping for respectability. The bigger sensor does start to pull ahead when the iso gets over 1600. Yet to compare the GH4 with 5DIV 4k.

-pw
 
Upvote 0
Chaitanya said:
preppyak said:
Adding C-Log, changing up the codec to not be MJPEG, and even getting the crop to 1.6x for 4k would actually be a pretty solid combo for the firmware upgrade.

Itd make it a lot more competitive with the GH5 and Sony A7 series, while also having the benefit of being a much better photo system.
Highly doubt dumb Canon will remove MJPEG format, generally Canon is one step forward two steps back approach with developing cameras. Even I wish that overbloated crappy MJPEG format would die for good but since dumb canon is worried about protecting their "expensive" cameras, I dont see that happening.

MJpeg was choosen because it provides a full picture every shot. Canon seemed to dedicate 4k video more to the photographers than to videoguys. There is no need for your S___storm. I Agree that a "better" codec could be provided but why replacing the old one? It makes a lot of sense to use MJPEG for a lot of situations.... I would like to see a second codec as choice, especially H.265.
 
Upvote 0
Canon is doing it wrong. They tried so hard to seperate 5D from Cinema line, now instead of fixing something important to stills like wi-fi (with its insane logic of profiles and vendor's random password) now they go for c-log which is awesome, but AFAIK is a sizy option to use.

I do hope they will fix their wi-fi connectivity menus more han anything.
 
Upvote 0
cpsico said:
I have this camera only for stills and never use video for anything serious, is this something I should be excited about? What is a good video editing program that won't break the bank?

DaVinci Resolve from Blackmagic is a great program, plus it's free. It's primarily a color correction program with editing software that's similar to Final Cut. If you're going to pay for software, Premiere Pro is the only way to go.
 
Upvote 0
Even allowing for C-Log the 5D MKIV is a long way short of the professional video from the C300 MKII which is a long way short of the video out of say the Red Weapon 6K or Helium 6K cameras.
Lets be frank the 5D MKIV is not designed to be a broadcast camera or a movie camera (hell the C300 MKII is not a movie camera).
The 5D MIV is fine for internet type docs, ad spots or short films to a level but anything sophisticated (visual affects etc) and its not the best tool in the box by a country mile.
 
Upvote 0
jeffa4444 said:
Even allowing for C-Log the 5D MKIV is a long way short of the professional video from the C300 MKII which is a long way short of the video out of say the Red Weapon 6K or Helium 6K cameras.
Lets be frank the 5D MKIV is not designed to be a broadcast camera or a movie camera (hell the C300 MKII is not a movie camera).
The 5D MIV is fine for internet type docs, ad spots or short films to a level but anything sophisticated (visual affects etc) and its not the best tool in the box by a country mile.

Who said anything about it being like a $10,000+ movie camera. As a long time c100 owner. Log is much better than the crap on the dslrs. Especially in high contrast low light when all the shadows are just black or the highlights are blown. Also it will make it easy to match the cinema line with the eos line multi-cam projects.
 
Upvote 0
benkam said:
Canon Rumors said:
There has been another suggestion that Canon has been actively looking at ways to “improve” the 4K video capture crop on the EOS 5D Mark IV. We cannot confirm at this time if we’re going to see that in a firmware update.

1.3X crop in 4K like on the 1DX2?

It's a 4k area on the sensor, that's why it's 1.7 with no pixel binning.
 
Upvote 0
bgoyette said:
wsmith96 said:
IglooEater said:
wsmith96 said:
For those of us not educated in video related features, what is C-Log and what does it do for you?
I hope someone else more competent than me answers this one, but here goes:
Ever tried editing JPEG's, especially pushing and pulling highlights and shadows? They break down incredibly fast. That's because they are compressed and don't have enough data in them to handle that kind of manipulation.
Same with compressed video. One solution is to shoot RAW video, as RED cameras do. That comes with astronomically large files. The other solution is to use more of the data in your compressed file in the areas you know you'll want to push and pull (i.e.: the shadows and highlights) and less of the data where you won't need to do such manipulations. So basically you get the ability to apply some edits without compromising file size. If I understand they call it a Log because of the mathematic formula they use to assign data to the tonal range there's C-Log, S-Log, (Sony) and others.
One downside is that the footage is rather greyed-out right out of the box and will require grading to become useable. (same goes with raw footage incidentally)

Got it - Thanks!

That's kinda it :-) -- Most video video camera encode their data using a "linear" form that does a couple of things, it assigns many more code values to the tones above middle grey than those below middle grey (the quantity of encoding values, in theory, gradations, increases in the same way light does, doubling with each stop as exposure increases. So the darkest shadows have only a few possible gradations whereas the lightest "in gamut" highlights have hundreds or thousands of shades depending on bit depth(again, in theory). Typical linear encoding also ads a curve with the specific goal of creating 6-7 stops of consistent contrast in the middle of the tonal range, compressing those tones above and below that middle range. The purpose for this scheme it to make the footage look right on a typical Rec.709 display. (6-7 stops of range is also about what is possible to print on the high quality photo papers as well).

Log Gammas, in general, assign "relatively" equal amounts of code values to each stop in the available dynamic range of a captured image, and in the process, greatly expand the middle "straight line" portion (that 6-7 stops mentioned above) to 11, 12, 13 stops and more.. This produces an image that is extremely flat, without the "normal" contrast we are used to seeing in a standard linear gamma. The benefit to this type of gamma, especially in 10 or 12 bit versions, is that we have much more flexibility in the shadows and highlights (at the expense of some gradations in the middle of the curve). C-log was designed for 8-bit cameras, and so it fudges its log by slightly compressing and lifting the shadows to allow for a greater highlight range. It's very easy to grade, even without a LUT and actually looks pretty good untouched.

It's of course a little more complicated than all that, but here's a graph showing the code value distribution of various Canon Log gammas. Note C-Log2, which is a more traditional cineon style Log curve, and its long flat shape -- which displays the essence of what a log gamma is, versus the original C-Log, with its compressed, lifted shadows, and more sloped strait line portion, compared to the Rec.709 curve that the current 5dmark IV outputs.

Thank you! I appreciate the correction and clarification. :)
 
Upvote 0
jeffa4444 said:
Even allowing for C-Log the 5D MKIV is a long way short of the professional video from the C300 MKII which is a long way short of the video out of say the Red Weapon 6K or Helium 6K cameras.
Lets be frank the 5D MKIV is not designed to be a broadcast camera or a movie camera (hell the C300 MKII is not a movie camera).
The 5D MIV is fine for internet type docs, ad spots or short films to a level but anything sophisticated (visual affects etc) and its not the best tool in the box by a country mile.

I disagree. Anyone can film with 5D MKIV for broadcast and movies especially with C-Log. Remember, Hollywood filmed an entire episode of House M.D. with a 5D Mark II and there have been 1000s of short films and commercials filmed with that.

You be surprised at films that gets accepted into film festivals. They film with crappier equipment and I have seen hundreds of those films.

It's story, acting, editing, and directing that drive those films. NOT film equipment. The C300 Mark II is actually a luxury to film with. Yes, you can film feature films with that thing. Yes, even with visual effects. However, I do not recommend filming with a DSLR for visual effects nowadays. The footage needs to be super clean with awesome dynamic range and a DSLR will not bring that.
 
Upvote 0
I bought my 5div to upgrade from my aging 7 year old 7d. I'm not interested in using it for video. I think I only used my 7d for video twice as I'm more into stills. Does anyone know how it will affect future firmware updates if you don't pay to have the Clog update carried out. I'm not into paying extra for something I'm not going to use, even more so if it means the camera needs to be stripped down and modified unnecessarily.
 
Upvote 0
Just got my 5D IV back from Canon. They kept it for one day and then return with FedEx overnight shipping.

All in all $118 and C-log seems to work perfect!

Happy I stayed with Canon and did not change brand. Promised Canon that 35 years ago, a long story from Stockholm Sweden...

So, highly recommended!
 
Upvote 0
SteveB77 said:
I bought my 5div to upgrade from my aging 7 year old 7d. I'm not interested in using it for video. I think I only used my 7d for video twice as I'm more into stills. Does anyone know how it will affect future firmware updates if you don't pay to have the Clog update carried out. I'm not into paying extra for something I'm not going to use, even more so if it means the camera needs to be stripped down and modified unnecessarily.

I agree and I work in vfx. It's weird that I keep reading online about VFX artists wanting 8k or raw because that is the last thing I want and it is not something that resonates with what other artists tell me. It slows the pipline down too much, and 99% of deliverables are 2k or 1080p.

Generally, I like 2k prores. Although 4k DPX is workable with a 10 gigabit switch. :)

90% of the work I do is on the Alexa (the rest mostly F55 and Epic) but I think the 5D Mark IV will be more than good enough for even very heavy vfx work. The C300 was almost there.
 
Upvote 0
BasilFawlty said:
Just got my 5D IV back from Canon. They kept it for one day and then return with FedEx overnight shipping.

All in all $118 and C-log seems to work perfect!

Happy I stayed with Canon and did not change brand. Promised Canon that 35 years ago, a long story from Stockholm Sweden...

So, highly recommended!
I also updated my 5D Mark IV for C-Log yesterday. I went to a CPS certified store and got my camera back after 30 minutes. Payed 98,18€ in germany.
Feels good to have a useful videomode now, without mess around which "flat picture style is the best".

Oh and after update, my camera firmware version says 1.1.0.
 
Upvote 0