Cameras must be put in checked luggage on international flights

[meywd]

According to BBC

The nine airlines affected are:
Royal Jordanian
Egypt Air
Turkish Airlines
Saudi Arabian Airlines
Kuwait Airways
Royal Air Maroc
Qatar Airways
Emirates
Etihad Airways

The countries:
Morocco
Turkey
Egypt
Jordan
Saudi Arabia
Kuwait
Qatar
United Arab Emirates


The reason:

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) said extremists were seeking "innovative methods" to bring down jets.
Bombs could be hidden in laptops, tablets, cameras, DVD players and electronic games, it said.

It is a bull---- ban built on all the other bull---- bans, just politicized nonsense. I have personally flown 5 of the airlines and whilst I wouldn't vouch for some (Egypt Air) to include Jordan is farcical, they have the strictest boarding searches that involve multiple people I have seen short of El Al. Qatar Airways, Emirates, and Etihad Airways are all top notch airlines that put the likes of AA, Delta etc to shame.

Meanwhile you can breeze through US security with almost anything! http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-us-airports-allowed-weapons-through-n367851

Exactly, here in Jordan you get your carry on checked as well as your checked in bags, even if I don't take my camera, what about the laptop?

 

[bluenoser1993]

Dubai in particular is one of our favorite places to travel.

The fascination with tourism to this destination never fails to amaze me. Dubai was a base of operations from which I worked in the Gulf for about 5 years. I'm glad to have experienced it, but would not spend a penny of my own money to visit it. I had a hard time looking past the modern day slavery that built the city and now does all its dirty work. Just google how many migrant workers died building Dubai, there will be no end to the results.

 

[kirispupis]

If you are flying from the US to one of these countries on vacation, spent over $1k for each of your family members tickets an extra $100 for an extra bag is not going to be a deal breaker for most.

I think there are other more important reasons to be taken in to account when deciding to go somewhere else, specifically the families safety if you are flying to an area that has this kind of requirement. My camera gear rode in a container ship, airplane and a truck all the way from Japan to get to where I live. I am sure it could survive another trip, if not insurance will replace it with the newest model.

Exactly. It's not just the cost of the case, but also if you're planning a vacation to countries that are often on US State Dept warnings/advisories, you should know what you're getting into in the larger sense of things...

But a number of these countries are typically not on state dept warnings/advisories. For example. Abu Dhabi, Dubai, and Morocco are on the US list but not on the UK list. In fact, of the countries mentioned in the ban, none are considered unsafe places to go. The ones who do have advisories (Somalia, Iraq, Yemen, etc) do not have direct flights to the US.

'Not considered unsafe' by whom? You?

[quote author=US State Department]
We issue a Travel Warning when we want you to consider very carefully whether you should go to a country at all. Examples of reasons for issuing a Travel Warning might include unstable government, civil war, ongoing intense crime or violence, or frequent terrorist attacks.

Sounds a bit unsafe, to me. Countries on the current electronics restriction list for which Travel Warnings have been issued include Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. I suggest you check your facts before posting.
[/quote]

Neuroanatomist, I respect your knowledge about cameras, but when it comes to international travel I suggest you get out a bit. I've been to many of these countries and have never had a single issue. In fact, Jordan and the UAE are probably the safest places I've ever been.

A more neutral sources is the Global Peace Index, given that State Department warnings are more often political.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index
Jordan - 96
Kuwait - 51
Morocco - 91
Qatar - 34
Saudi Arabia - 129
Turkey - 145
UAE - 61
United States - 103

All except for Turkey and Saudi Arabia are ranked less dangerous than the US. In the case of Saudi Arabia, most of us are unlikely to obtain a visa anyway. For Turkey, there has been some instability there recently, but millions of tourists still go there. The odds of something happening are still very low. You're more likely to die from a traffic accident in India than have anything go wrong in Turkey.

Take a look at https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/statistics/deaths.html
In the last 3 years, the US lost 14 citizens in Turkey and 20 in Switzerland. Two deaths in Turkey were due to terrorists. In the same period, the US lost 9 citizens in Saudi Arabia - all but 1 of them due to vehicle accidents.

I suggest you stick to camera discussions.

 

[Don Haines]

A more neutral sources is the Global Peace Index, given that State Department warnings are more often political.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index
Jordan - 96
Kuwait - 51
Morocco - 91
Qatar - 34
Saudi Arabia - 129
Turkey - 145
UAE - 61
United States - 103

If you really want to do something dangerous, drive to the airport and back.....

 

[neuroanatomist]

Neuroanatomist, I respect your knowledge about cameras, but when it comes to international travel I suggest you get out a bit. I've been to many of these countries and have never had a single issue. In fact, Jordan and the UAE are probably the safest places I've ever been.

Well, that's nice that you've had no incidents in those countries. But as I hope you understand, your personal experience is worthless as a metric for anyone other than yourself. I've walked through East Harlem after midnight, and had no issues. I'm sure there are a few people with a different experience. As for 'getting out a bit', I've had my minivan taxi in Nicaragua commandeered by a platoon of machine gun-toting soldiers, been on a volcano in Rwanda when park guards were shooting at gorilla poachers, and been evacuated from the train station at Charles de Gaulle just before security forces detonated a device left on the platform (fortunately I understand French sufficiently well to have understood the guards shouting 'cover your ears'). So please, be careful what you assume about others.

I take it you'd prefer not to address your assertion that countries with Travel Warnings don't have direct flights to the US? That's not surprising, I know most people have real difficulty admitting when they're wrong.

I suggest you stick to camera discussions.

I suggest you stick that suggestion somewhere in the vicinity of your ass-umptions.

 

[kirispupis]

Neuroanatomist, I respect your knowledge about cameras, but when it comes to international travel I suggest you get out a bit. I've been to many of these countries and have never had a single issue. In fact, Jordan and the UAE are probably the safest places I've ever been.

Well, that's nice that you've had no incidents in those countries. But as I hope you understand, your personal experience is worthless as a metric for anyone other than yourself. I've walked through East Harlem after midnight, and had no issues. I'm sure there are a few people with a different experience. As for 'getting out a bit', I've had my minivan taxi in Nicaragua commandeered by a platoon of machine gun-toting soldiers, been on a volcano in Rwanda when park guards were shooting at gorilla poachers, and been evacuated from the train station at Charles de Gaulle just before security forces detonated a device left on the platform (fortunately I understand French sufficiently well to have understood the guards shouting 'cover your ears'). So please, be careful what you assume about others.

I take it you'd prefer not to address your assertion that countries with Travel Warnings don't have direct flights to the US? That's not surprising, I know most people have real difficulty admitting when they're wrong.

I suggest you stick to camera discussions.

I suggest you stick that suggestion somewhere in the vicinity of your ass-umptions.

Neuroanatomist - I must admit that I had a great deal of respect for you, but it has vanished. Seriously, "ass-umptions"? I point out facts and you resort to name calling.

In terms of my statement, learn to read. I said the countries with electronics bans are"typically" not on state advisories. Currently Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Turkey have travel warnings due to the war in Yemen for Saudi Arabia, and due to the Syria crisis for Jordan and Turkey. Egypt has a warning for the Sinai Peninsula. Morocco, the UAE, Qatar, and Kuwait have no warnings. Of the countries with warnings, only Saudi Arabia has been on there for some time due to terrorist incidents that have occurred there. Turkey, Jordan, and Egypt are only recent entries due to the spillover from the Arab Spring.

So, my statement was correct.

What also is correct is the fact that these are still very safe places (see data in my previous post). As I'm sure you know, since you've been around, problem areas are localized. For example Mexico has a travel warning, but yet millions of Americans have no issues there because they don't go to the areas with issues.

 

[retroreflection]

This did not originate with Trump. How do I know? It is the opposite of yoooog.

This is not evidence of Islamophobia. Petty inconvenience is not the primary weapon of hatred.

If you were flying from one of these places, checking your precious wouldn't kill you. I am no big fan of the TSA, but they (or the Dubainetic equivalent) don't steal everything.

Is it annoying that a few Saudis with box cutters mean nobody can fly with a Swiss army knife, a dude with a dud bomb in his shoe means you should fly in loafers,...? Unfortunately air travel is one of the world's favorite targets for terror. And I would rather experience the inconvenience before the senseless deaths.

 

[Jaysheldon]

I was on vacation in France on Sept. 11, 2001, scheduled to fly back to Canada two days later. When my flight was re-scheduled and i got to the airport, I was told my camera bag and all my film had to go into the luggage hold. I was distraught, figuring it would be stolen. Then I asked for and found a cardboard box and put the camera bag in, taped it up. I sweated the entire flight back, but the box came through.
My worry is the in-cabin camera/laptop ban will spread to many countries, and include domestic flights.As it is, I don't carry my most expensive gear when I travel (one way to ruin a vacation is to lose a 6D or higher), so on my just-completed vacation to Israel I took my SL-1 (I also wanted to travel light). Even still, having to replace a DSLR in a foreign country because of airline theft would really kill the fun. And occasionally I need to take a small laptop for work when I travel. Again, having to buy a new one because of theft would be a real pain.

 

[kirispupis]

This did not originate with Trump. How do I know? It is the opposite of yoooog.

This is not evidence of Islamophobia. Petty inconvenience is not the primary weapon of hatred.

If you were flying from one of these places, checking your precious wouldn't kill you. I am no big fan of the TSA, but they (or the Dubainetic equivalent) don't steal everything.

Is it annoying that a few Saudis with box cutters mean nobody can fly with a Swiss army knife, a dude with a dud bomb in his shoe means you should fly in loafers,...? Unfortunately air travel is one of the world's favorite targets for terror. And I would rather experience the inconvenience before the senseless deaths.

My major issue with this ban is that it doesn't seem to make sense. Airports like Dubai and Abu Dhabi are far more modern than most (maybe all) US airports. These two airports, along with Casablanca, weren't included in the UK ban. Also, Germany and France, who have the same intel, placed no bans.

Given that most terrorists in the US have been home grown, wouldn't it be more likely that they would attack a domestic flight?

There probably is a credible threat that this ban is addressing, but I doubt it made us any safer.

 

[digigal]

Oh, joy; just what I needed!! In 3 wks we're flying from SFO to Cape Town via Dubai on Qatar. Their business class is so much nicer than the funky seat configuration on BA, as is their lounge so that's why we chose them again this time. Qatar did do one of the more thorough screening of my camera equipment than some of the other airports but I have noted in this past year all of the major international airports have become more careful about screening lenses, bodies, drives, etc. One airport in India even insisted on looking through each of the lenses! I've got an SSD that I'll backup all my pics on so I guess that and my iPhone will be all I'll have in the cabin.

 

[romanr74]

If you are flying from the US to one of these countries on vacation, spent over $1k for each of your family members tickets an extra $100 for an extra bag is not going to be a deal breaker for most.

I think there are other more important reasons to be taken in to account when deciding to go somewhere else, specifically the families safety if you are flying to an area that has this kind of requirement. My camera gear rode in a container ship, airplane and a truck all the way from Japan to get to where I live. I am sure it could survive another trip, if not insurance will replace it with the newest model.

Exactly. It's not just the cost of the case, but also if you're planning a vacation to countries that are often on US State Dept warnings/advisories, you should know what you're getting into in the larger sense of things...

But a number of these countries are typically not on state dept warnings/advisories. For example. Abu Dhabi, Dubai, and Morocco are on the US list but not on the UK list. In fact, of the countries mentioned in the ban, none are considered unsafe places to go. The ones who do have advisories (Somalia, Iraq, Yemen, etc) do not have direct flights to the US.

'Not considered unsafe' by whom? You?

[quote author=US State Department]
We issue a Travel Warning when we want you to consider very carefully whether you should go to a country at all. Examples of reasons for issuing a Travel Warning might include unstable government, civil war, ongoing intense crime or violence, or frequent terrorist attacks.

Sounds a bit unsafe, to me. Countries on the current electronics restriction list for which Travel Warnings have been issued include Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. I suggest you check your facts before posting.
[/quote]

Been to any of these places recently to have sufficient facts?

 

[romanr74]

I know most people have real difficulty admitting when they're wrong.

Not you - ROTFL...

 

[Hillsilly]

What also is correct is the fact that these are still very safe places (see data in my previous post).

Would you consider those places safe for young female photographers who are travelling on their own and who are taking predominantly people, street and social documentary photographs?

 

[Hillsilly]

What also is correct is the fact that these are still very safe places (see data in my previous post).

Would you consider those places safe for young female photographers who are travelling on their own and who are taking predominantly people, street and social documentary photographs? (ie what some might consider indulgent or frivolous photography)

 

[Mikehit]

Did you forget the smilie on that one?

 

[Hillsilly]

Yes Messed it up somehow - must have hit quote instead of edit. Then again, I'm sure my thoughts are so important, it is only natural for people to quote them - even if I have to do it myself.

 

[LDS]

Would you consider those places safe for young female photographers who are travelling on their own and who are taking predominantly people, street and social documentary photographs? (ie what some might consider indulgent or frivolous photography)

Which places in the world you consider truly safe in such situations, even for a man? There are many places in the US and Europe which would be truly unsafe as well. But that's has nothing to do with safety of flights.

 

[Hillsilly]

I thought we'd veered off into a discussion on how safe or unsafe the middle east is compared to Europe or the US. On a photography forum, I thought it might be relevant to find out how safe the middle east might be. I think almost everyone I've spoken to who has travelled to the more fundamentalist regions has been assaulted for taking photos. Is that bad luck, or is that an expected outcome?

 

[neuroanatomist]

Neuroanatomist, I respect your knowledge about cameras, but when it comes to international travel I suggest you get out a bit. I've been to many of these countries and have never had a single issue. In fact, Jordan and the UAE are probably the safest places I've ever been.

Well, that's nice that you've had no incidents in those countries. But as I hope you understand, your personal experience is worthless as a metric for anyone other than yourself. I've walked through East Harlem after midnight, and had no issues. I'm sure there are a few people with a different experience. As for 'getting out a bit', I've had my minivan taxi in Nicaragua commandeered by a platoon of machine gun-toting soldiers, been on a volcano in Rwanda when park guards were shooting at gorilla poachers, and been evacuated from the train station at Charles de Gaulle just before security forces detonated a device left on the platform (fortunately I understand French sufficiently well to have understood the guards shouting 'cover your ears'). So please, be careful what you assume about others.

I take it you'd prefer not to address your assertion that countries with Travel Warnings don't have direct flights to the US? That's not surprising, I know most people have real difficulty admitting when they're wrong.

I suggest you stick to camera discussions.

I suggest you stick that suggestion somewhere in the vicinity of your ass-umptions.

Neuroanatomist - I must admit that I had a great deal of respect for you, but it has vanished. Seriously, "ass-umptions"? I point out facts and you resort to name calling.

In terms of my statement, learn to read. I said the countries with electronics bans are"typically" not on state advisories. Currently Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Turkey have travel warnings due to the war in Yemen for Saudi Arabia, and due to the Syria crisis for Jordan and Turkey. Egypt has a warning for the Sinai Peninsula. Morocco, the UAE, Qatar, and Kuwait have no warnings. Of the countries with warnings, only Saudi Arabia has been on there for some time due to terrorist incidents that have occurred there. Turkey, Jordan, and Egypt are only recent entries due to the spillover from the Arab Spring.

So, my statement was correct.

What also is correct is the fact that these are still very safe places (see data in my previous post). As I'm sure you know, since you've been around, problem areas are localized. For example Mexico has a travel warning, but yet millions of Americans have no issues there because they don't go to the areas with issues.

Learn to read? Well, let's review what you wrote, shall we?

But a number of these countries are typically not on state dept warnings/advisories. For example. Abu Dhabi, Dubai, and Morocco are on the US list but not on the UK list. In fact, of the countries mentioned in the ban, none are considered unsafe places to go. The ones who do have advisories (Somalia, Iraq, Yemen, etc) do not have direct flights to the US.

So you are asserting that the part highlighted above, the part to which I referred previously, is correct? Moreover, you in one breath mention 'crisis' and 'war' nearby, and in the next assert safety. Your misdirecting answers and staunch defense of incorrect statements have you sounding a bit like the guy who's house I walked past last night...a big house, directly north of the Washington Monument.

As for those places 'being very safe', you're welcome to your opinion. Atatürk Airport wasn't very safe on a particular day last year. Nor was Nice, France, for that matter.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

The last time I went to Qatar (to visit family working there) I was treated very suspiciously at border control because I was white and from Europe. My camera was disassembled and inspected....even the mirror was lifted and battery re-x-rayed. Every lens had their caps removed and visually inspected...and re- X-rayed. It took well over 1/2 hour. Finally after returning all of my kit...the inspector claimed that "yes...I was just a photographer!" and that was just to get into the country.