canon 5ds at www.imaging-resource.com
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zlatko said:
I deleted it (and my other posts) since it's useless to get sucked into all the nonsense here, bye.
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LetTheRightLensIn said:
Either that, or you can't admit that the one metric you hold so dear is nowhere as important to the majority of users or purchasers as other features where the Canon system vastly out performs the competition.
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:unfocused
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privatebydesign said:
I never quite understand this sort of thing. People post an opinion. Others disagree. It gets debated.
Isn't that what a forum is all about?
Some time back, Private and I had a good go round about the 600 RT. We disagreed, but didn't feel the need to insult or pout or claim we were being picked on for speaking the truth. We are all big kids here.
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Preorder sales numbers are always wildly inflated as many people preorder from several retailers in order to increase the odds they get their hands on the camera earlier.
Also, Amazon isn't basing that on all-time sales. If that were the case, then the 5DS in preorder alone has surpassed the total sales numbers of the 5D3. Whomever believes that hasn't got a clue.
Apparently, some people here have no idea of internet sales and marketing works.
Also, Amazon isn't basing that on all-time sales. If that were the case, then the 5DS in preorder alone has surpassed the total sales numbers of the 5D3. Whomever believes that hasn't got a clue.
Apparently, some people here have no idea of internet sales and marketing works.
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unfocused
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K said:
I think people understand it a lot better than you think.
K said:
Wow, that's an interesting rationalization that contradicts your bold prediction that this camera would be a failure.
People are so desperate to get their hands on the camera that they place orders with multiple retailers, yet the camera is a failure?
Even if such behavior occurs, it is irrelevant because we are only referencing one retailer's orders. If a buyer ultimately takes delivery from B&H or Adorama, they are still taking delivery.
Pre-sales are high with a new release, not because of multiple orders but because of pent-up demand.
It's too early to know for sure, of course, but robust pre-sales at nearly $4,000 a pop seems to refute your prediction of failure.
K said:
Or perhaps, anyone who thinks someone would believe that doesn't have a clue.
Amazon uses rolling sales figures. It an effective way to get an accurate picture of changing opinions or behavior.
They select a set time period and add in the latest numbers at the front end, while rolling off the numbers at the back end. Like all surveys, it's a snapshot in time, but it's a bit more accurate than simply picking a single arbitrary point in time.
BTW, as of this post, it has now gone to #2.
Is it really so painful to just admit that your prediction was wrong?
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MichaelHodges said:
I don't, I see Canon users who freely accept that Canon sensors do not return the DR of their competition accepting the fact that even these new cameras don't, and just not caring too much. I am sure every 5DS/R buyer would appreciate more DR, but the fact that they haven't got it, or ever had it, isn't going to stop them trying to get the best out of their new cameras that integrate so well with their unique system. Heck the 5DS/R even share body plates and battery grips! That is unheard of in the money gouging accessory arena, both first and third party.
Prior to very recently if a keen photographer had wanted to get serious and get the best kit for a stab at a landscape print career (amongst other uses) everybody should have pointed them to a D810 and a 14-24, now with our hands on our hearts we can say they should also take a look at the 5DSR and 11-24, how is that not stunningly good news? I know that in a tradeoff between a couple of stops of DR in a relatively undynamic predominantly tripod mounted shooting environment, and more MP and a wider fov, I'd take the latter combo every time.
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The only irrational behavior I see are those who constantly harp on one single aspect of these cameras AND get frustrated when others among us just don't react the same way because while we may acknowledge that to be the truth...we just don't care all that much. Congrats to Sony for making a sensor that performs a bit better than Canon. They make nice stuff. Apart from those sensors, Sony makes nothing in a camera I find the least bit appealing. Their build quality is inferior, battery life, ergonomics, menu system... all terrible by comparison in my opinion. Others like it. THAT'S OK! I really want an A7s for video! But nothing I'd use everyday for critical work....
And Nikon frankly, now that they don't even make their own sensors in their flagship cameras anymore, they produce nothing whatsoever that I personally find competitive with anything of Canon's outside of their glass.
DR may be the most important factor on earth to some, but not to most. If DR was really what I needed, I'm going for the 645Z. But for $3900 instead of $13000 I can get great 35mm performance.
And Nikon frankly, now that they don't even make their own sensors in their flagship cameras anymore, they produce nothing whatsoever that I personally find competitive with anything of Canon's outside of their glass.
DR may be the most important factor on earth to some, but not to most. If DR was really what I needed, I'm going for the 645Z. But for $3900 instead of $13000 I can get great 35mm performance.
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PureClassA said:
I love all the same things about Canon that you do, and I'd add their amazing selection of lenses to the list.
However, Canon seems stuck in a rut with their sensor technology - unable to innovate or even push their current tech in substantive ways.
One one hand, Sony's got an amazing rage of sensors from 12MP and 400K ISO to 35MP with well controlled noise (and probably a 50MP sensor around the corner that's probably going to shame the 5DS). And on the other hand, Smartphones with "good enough" image quality, integrated connectivity, editing, sharing and touch screens are eating their low-end lunch... And all they can come up with is... let's put a scaled-up 7D sensor in a 5D body. Seriously? That's all they got?
Now, maybe they're smarter than most of their customers and laughing all the way to the bank with a high margin camera that cost them virtually zero to bring to market. But I think anyone that really needs 50MP, already has a medium format camera like the 645Z. Do you think all the MF guys are suddenly going to dump their systems and buy a 5DS? No... Not with the results this camera is producing... No way. So who's going to buy this? People that have always dreamed of shooting with a MF system but couldn't afford it? Jeez... these folks are in for some disappointment.
As a 20-year fan of Canon, I really think they have run out of innovation. I'm really disappointed. I wish it were different, but I'll be surprised if Canon is still around in another 20 years if they keep going like this.
Personal anecdote: I saw a wedding photo shoot at the Quay here on the weekend, while I didn't get too close, the backup photographer had a Canon DSLR (as noted by the strap), the primary photographer was using a Sony Mirrorless (obvious from the orange/red ring at the lens mount).
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privatebydesign said:
But in an equal way you are dismissing some people's right to be unhappy with these products. I am not saying that either opinion is right or wrong, everyone is right for himself. But some of the comments, especially Neuro's, are rather insulting. I used to admire his expertise and sense of humor before, but lately he looks really agressive in defnding Canon. I think that constructive criticism is more valuable than blind adoration
Just for information - I am not interested in buying either of these cameras so DR is not an issue to me at all, but I don't like the tone of discussion. I am not OK with "If you are not happy, hide yourself" remarks
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plam_1980 said:
I don't think anyone is suggesting that, everyone is certainly welcome to express their opinion. If someone were to say, "I am not interested in this camera unless it has more DR than previous Canon cameras," or, "I am unhappy with this camera because it doesn't meet my needs," no one should argue the point. But when people start claiming, "This camera will be a failure unless it has more DR than previous Canon cameras," or, ""There's no market for this camera," there's going to be pushback. When an individual has made such claims for the past several Canon releases – which have been commercial successes – they simply end up looking foolish. If you want to condone foolishness, that's your prerogative.
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I guess what is most frustrating to me is the fact that most people arguing don't seem to even understand the difference between 13.4 stops of DR and 11.5 stops of DR at ISO 100. They also just say "less DR" in a general fashion and don't realize that DR changes as ISO changes.
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VirtualRain said:
Of course, if that were true, then all the MF manufacturers should close up shop since they've fully saturated the market.
VirtualRain said:
No, why would they?
VirtualRain said:
People who want higher resolution but can not justify the expense of MF, people who have myriad canon lenses, people who want to shoot higher resolution in focal lengths MF can't touch, etc.
Who cares?
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neuroanatomist said:
I'd add to that ... when people start predicting doom and gloom for Canon because they're "not innovating" ... there's going to be pushback.
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