Canon 7D mk ii or Canon 5D mk iii which is better all around camera?

[Ryan85]

@intown:
Dear friend,
i own both cameras you mention. Go with the 7D Mk2. Up to ISO 800 they shoot the exact same quality pictures. From 800 to 3200, 5d Mk3 is 1 stop better. From 3200 to 12800, 7d mk2 is 1/3 of a stop better! Even at ISO 16000, 7D Mk2 produces usable images. I'm producing images on a professional, calibrated EIZO monitor and it never lies to me.
What blows my mind with the 7D is that, even if it has more noise in some cases, it cleans up much better and easier in photoshop. And i mean, A LOT BETTER and EASIER and this includes videos up to ISO 8000 also! The final result is better for 7D than 5D, period! I'm up to this conclusion, after shooting 771 side-by-side shots with both cameras during the previous week and spending half weeekend to compare them. The 7D has such a fine noise pattern that, clears up much easier; i'm positive, i've seen it with my own eyes! By the way, in the so-called "reviews" until now, nobody mentions how easily it "cleans up" in Photoshop, compared to other cameras, including FF.
I see you have a 60D right now so you're used to crop sensors; it will be quite difficult to lose the 1.6x magnification factor and start cropping. Don't look further, the 7D is the right camera for you.

Most of all, be lucky, be strong, keep doing well. All my best,
Yiannis

That's kinda hard to believe. I'd like to see a few examples you took. Maybe post some here if you don't mind. And are you shooting raw comparing these images?

 

[rpt]

I vote 5D3. As suggest as marsu42 said, install MagicLantern and you have a great camera. As for focusing on video as there is no AF on the 5D3 video, get one of the apps for your pad or smartphone and you can do the follow focus stuff. I got DSLR Controler Beta for my Samsung Note 3.

With this configuration , the only downside is that the 5D3 has 6 fps and the 7D2 has 10.

Hope this helps.

 

[StudentOfLight]

The comment about the 5D3 being sharper cropped to a 7D image size is a bit of a lie.

It's no lie. EF lenses are designed for full frame bodies (film and sensor). I'm going to butcher this explanation (Neuro does a much better job explaining this and I bet he's thinking, "not this again"), but lenses have limits regarding the degree of sharpness to which they can focus the light. The larger pixels in a full frame sensor generally do a better job of rendering the edge of a sharp object (such as a fine line in a test chart) from a full frame lens. Put that line under a microscope and that edge will look fuzzy. Now, pack lots of smaller pixels close together along this edge and they will capture the "fuzz." Because the smaller pixels aren't as efficient in capturing the light as the big pixels and this fuzzy line could spill more across the tiny pixels, thus recording a less sharp image. All of this may vary by lens, with some able to focus better for the small pixels than others.

Okay, that's my stab at explaining the why. If I butchered it, I warned you. The thing that's important to me is that increasing "sharpness" requires more than simply packing more pixels into a smaller space. The lens' ability to focus the light and the pixel's efficiency in capturing the light also play a factor.

Sometimes pictures can say it better. Checkout the link to The Digital Picture's comparison tool of the 70-200 f2.8L II on a 1Ds III vs. a 60D. Those lines are softer on the 60D which has smaller pixels that are more tightly packed together.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=687&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=3&API=0&LensComp=687&CameraComp=736&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=3&APIComp=0

As previously mentioned, the bigger sensor allows for higher ISO which allows for faster shutter speeds that can reduce blur and further sharpen an image.

Again, my explanation may have some holes in it, but image sharpness isn't just about the pixel density. Much of what I shoot is high ISO (1600 and up). With the 70-200, cropping a 5D3 image will give you a sharper image than a native 7D image. Go outside in bright light and lower ISO, and this difference is less clear. Even outside, I get better results cropping my 5D3 image over my native 7D image, but we are nitpicking here. This is enough to mitigate the 1.6 crop factor for me. But, it doesn't mean that the 7D can't produce pleasingly sharp images. It does, especially in bright light.

I would love to see The Digital Picture add the 7D2 to their comparison tool to see if the Mark II version is any sharper than the Mark I.

TDP crops of 6D vs 7D-II with the 200mm f/2:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=458&Camera=819&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=458&CameraComp=963&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

 

[Don Haines]

hmmmmmmmm.........

The 5D3 was designed as an all-round camera.....
The 7D2 was designed to fit a niche......

What do you think?

 

[FTb-n]

hmmmmmmmm.........

The 5D3 was designed as an all-round camera.....
The 7D2 was designed to fit a niche......

What do you think?

The 5D2 seemed to be a wedding/portrait body only -- a true niche. The 5D3 upped the ante for weddings, portraits and events plus pulled it out of the niche category by making it a reasonable alternatively for less demanding action.

I wouldn't put the 7D2 in the niche category, it seems to belittle its other talents. The 7D2 appears to be the new king of the crop bodies for all subject matter that truly excels with action photography. Plus it is a genuine pro body in build quality.

 

[ritholtz]

The comment about the 5D3 being sharper cropped to a 7D image size is a bit of a lie.

It's no lie. EF lenses are designed for full frame bodies (film and sensor). I'm going to butcher this explanation (Neuro does a much better job explaining this and I bet he's thinking, "not this again"), but lenses have limits regarding the degree of sharpness to which they can focus the light. The larger pixels in a full frame sensor generally do a better job of rendering the edge of a sharp object (such as a fine line in a test chart) from a full frame lens. Put that line under a microscope and that edge will look fuzzy. Now, pack lots of smaller pixels close together along this edge and they will capture the "fuzz." Because the smaller pixels aren't as efficient in capturing the light as the big pixels and this fuzzy line could spill more across the tiny pixels, thus recording a less sharp image. All of this may vary by lens, with some able to focus better for the small pixels than others.

Okay, that's my stab at explaining the why. If I butchered it, I warned you. The thing that's important to me is that increasing "sharpness" requires more than simply packing more pixels into a smaller space. The lens' ability to focus the light and the pixel's efficiency in capturing the light also play a factor.

Sometimes pictures can say it better. Checkout the link to The Digital Picture's comparison tool of the 70-200 f2.8L II on a 1Ds III vs. a 60D. Those lines are softer on the 60D which has smaller pixels that are more tightly packed together.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=687&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=3&API=0&LensComp=687&CameraComp=736&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=3&APIComp=0

As previously mentioned, the bigger sensor allows for higher ISO which allows for faster shutter speeds that can reduce blur and further sharpen an image.

Again, my explanation may have some holes in it, but image sharpness isn't just about the pixel density. Much of what I shoot is high ISO (1600 and up). With the 70-200, cropping a 5D3 image will give you a sharper image than a native 7D image. Go outside in bright light and lower ISO, and this difference is less clear. Even outside, I get better results cropping my 5D3 image over my native 7D image, but we are nitpicking here. This is enough to mitigate the 1.6 crop factor for me. But, it doesn't mean that the 7D can't produce pleasingly sharp images. It does, especially in bright light.

I would love to see The Digital Picture add the 7D2 to their comparison tool to see if the Mark II version is any sharper than the Mark I.

TDP crops of 6D vs 7D-II with the 200mm f/2:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=458&Camera=819&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=458&CameraComp=963&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

Surprisingly crop is very close to FF. I am expecting little bigger gap. Not sure, but crop and FF pics are not taken from same distance from subject. Crop is further to subject than FF which puts them disadvantage in this test. Brian 70D produced lines little thicker than 7D2 from the same comparison tool. Are there any significant differences between 70D and 7D2 in terms of image quality for simple end user. They felt same in TDP comparison tool here and DPReview comparison tool.
Thanks

 

[Don Haines]

hmmmmmmmm.........

The 5D3 was designed as an all-round camera.....
The 7D2 was designed to fit a niche......

What do you think?

The 5D2 seemed to be a wedding/portrait body only -- a true niche. The 5D3 upped the ante for weddings, portraits and events plus pulled it out of the niche category by making it a reasonable alternatively for less demanding action.

I wouldn't put the 7D2 in the niche category, it seems to belittle its other talents. The 7D2 appears to be the new king of the crop bodies for all subject matter that truly excels with action photography. Plus it is a genuine pro body in build quality.

Just my opinion, but to me the 1DX and the 7D2 hold down the top spots in the Canon Ff and Crop world, while I would put the 5D3 and the 70D as the all round cameras in their categories......

 

[CaptainZero]

The OP didn't mention any other lenses they have. Just the 70-200. Are the other lenses EF, or are they EF-S? That makes a difference because the EF-S won't work on the 5D3. Something to keep in mind. I don't think you can go wrong with either, but the 7D2 may be better for you since you mention a lot of video, and sports (even though it's indoors).

 

[Hjalmarg1]

Hi All,

Perhaps this has been asked before, if so please point me in the right direction. I looked and did not find the comparison that fit my needs.

Which do you think is a better all around camera? 7D mark III or 5D mark III


I know this answer varies on situation, so here is what I am working with.

• Can only get one
• Price is not a major factor (since they are getting closer in price)
• Camera will be used to create basic videos for the web Think quality business video and youtube product reviews
• I am a Web Designer / Developer 1st / Photographer 2nd. Occasionally I take photos for clients, if it is real high end stuff they hire a professional photographer
• Family Camera. (Two kids 3 & 6 who play soccer, basketball, dance, go fun places, etc...)
• Maybe set up some simple video stuff with kids
• I am a former college newspaper photographer who enjoys carrying a camera and taking all kinds of shots.

I currently have a 60D with a few lenses including 70-200 f/2.8L IS version 2

Now that the 5d3 prices are dropping I was thinking of getting a 5d3 (I have always wanted one), as I researched it looks like the 7D2 might be a better fit.

To me it looks like if I go with the 7D2, I will be giving up a full frame and better low light images (not to say that the 7d2 has poor low light functionality)

Full frame might not be a big factor other than just bragging rights.


Which do you think will be a better fit?
Any reason to go with the 5D3 over the 7D2 for my situation?

Thanks in Advance! -- Steven

I would say that the 5D3 would be my recommendation, even though the 7D2 ISO performance is supposed to be very good. You already own another APS-C camera.

 

[intown]

Thankyou! Thankyou! Thankyou!

I spend a lot of time in a lot of different forums and the folks are so great and genuinely helpful. There are differing opinions and it is great to read everyones differing perspectives.

@captainzero the other lenses are pretty standard EF mounts, 40mm pancake, no other "L" lenses. I have one EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 is USM

@rpt what iOS apps allow the 5d3 to do follow focus? Something like CamRanger? any other good options?



Anyway thanks so much for all the input and advice, it has definitely pointed me in the right direction.

Thanks! -- Steven

 

[FTb-n]

hmmmmmmmm.........

The 5D3 was designed as an all-round camera.....
The 7D2 was designed to fit a niche......

What do you think?

The 5D2 seemed to be a wedding/portrait body only -- a true niche. The 5D3 upped the ante for weddings, portraits and events plus pulled it out of the niche category by making it a reasonable alternatively for less demanding action.

I wouldn't put the 7D2 in the niche category, it seems to belittle its other talents. The 7D2 appears to be the new king of the crop bodies for all subject matter that truly excels with action photography. Plus it is a genuine pro body in build quality.

Just my opinion, but to me the 1DX and the 7D2 hold down the top spots in the Canon Ff and Crop world, while I would put the 5D3 and the 70D as the all round cameras in their categories......

I would agree. The 7D2 tops the 70D in every category except price, while the 1Dx tops the 5D3 in just about every category except price, weight, and silent shutter.

The progression through the crop bodies is pretty linear with the higher end body improving upon the lower end in just about every feature. But, when looking at the top four pro-grade bodies -- 7D2, 6D, 5D3, 1Dx -- the distinctions are more detached. The 1Dx may be king of them all, but the 6D, 7D2, and 5D3 each have unique strengths. Pending one's subject matter and budget, it would be quite reasonable to augment one's kit with two or more of these bodies to target specific needs.

 

[Jack Douglas]

intown, please when you finally make your move, give us some feedback as to why. Your question is exactly what I'm confronting except that I'm presently used to the 6D. I'm shooting with the 300 2.8 II and the 70-200 2.8 II and actually have been very happy with the 6D other than the obvious negatives.

I don't think the following quote about an upcoming trip to the Queen Charlotte Islands takes this thread off track and may spur some new thoughts in this debate. I have resisted a 1Dx based on weight and size mainly and price.

Quote:

Greetings,

May is a wonderful month to start off Spring on Haida Gwaii. The first two weeks, HSE has a scheduled trip for the 11th to either Kuuna or in the inlet. May works, many different species are present from cormorants, aucklets, eagles, and a variety of other seabirds. The Delkatla Wildlife Sanctuary in Massett offers a great opportunity to spot many different species passing through the islands (cranes, falcons, etc).

Your dingy should be suffice to shoreline adventures.

Offshore we have the chance to take pictures of shearwaters as they pass by the vessel. Haida Gwaii is home to several species. This year we have been seeing hawks and owls (saw whet, red tail, sharp shrinned) hanging around. Depending the west or east coast, a 45 min zodiac ride out to the West Coast offers glimpses at Tufted Puffins, Pigeon Gillemonts, Rhino Aucklets, Divers, etc.

As for birds, I don't foresee you having any problems other than swivel neck from watching all the kinds of species available to view.

We have a tentative trip scheduled for May 11 if that works.

Weather is flexible, "wait five minutes and the weather will change" as they say. Overall, May tends to bring calmer waters and mrs daylight to explore.

With your motorhome there are several campsites for your pleasure:

Kagan Bay-Outside village of Queen Charlotte
Misty Meadows- Tlall- offers a long stretch of beach (Naikoon) where one can walk and take picks or bino plovers and a variety of birds.
North Beach- Close to Tow Hill there is a setup for your rig.

Sandspit- You could travel out to Gray Bay to camp and enjoy the beach.

Hope this helps

 

[Marsu42]

The progression through the crop bodies is pretty linear with the higher end body improving upon the lower end in just about every feature.

That's certainly what Canon would like you to believe but it isn't. A 70d has advantages over the big brother that will definitely matter to some: size, weight, swivel screen, touch screen, wifi, right hand-only control, to name those who come to my mind right now...

The 7D2 tops the 70D in every category except price, while the 1Dx tops the 5D3 in just about every category except price, weight, and silent shutter.

... and you've forgotten some features of the 5d3 the 1dx doesn't have: More resolution (1dx: 18mp, 5d3: 22mp), more dynamic range at base iso (5d3 has ~2ev more), focus peaking, raw histogram, raw zebras, raw video, focus stacking, intervalometer, motion detect release ... I'll stop here, but I could continue.

 

[Loswr]

... and you've forgotten some features of the 5d3 the 1dx doesn't have: More resolution (1dx: 18mp, 5d3: 22mp), more dynamic range at base iso (5d3 has ~2ev more)

So, you have more resolution (actual resolution, not pixel count) with the 5DIII at the same time as you have that extra ~2 stops of DR at base ISO? How does that work, exactly?

 

[Marsu42]

... and you've forgotten some features of the 5d3 the 1dx doesn't have: More resolution (1dx: 18mp, 5d3: 22mp), more dynamic range at base iso (5d3 has ~2ev more)

So, you have more resolution (actual resolution, not pixel count) with the 5DIII at the same time as you have that extra ~2 stops of DR at base ISO? How does that work, exactly?

Download this: https://builds.magiclantern.fm/#/ ... then follow these exact steps: Enable the dual_iso module, enable the dual_iso feature in the expo menu and set to to iso800 or iso1600 when in a tough spot.

But as you surely known my answer when asking, we can go straight to "Neuro educates about the difference between resolution and pixel count"

 

[Loswr]

... and you've forgotten some features of the 5d3 the 1dx doesn't have: More resolution (1dx: 18mp, 5d3: 22mp), more dynamic range at base iso (5d3 has ~2ev more)

So, you have more resolution (actual resolution, not pixel count) with the 5DIII at the same time as you have that extra ~2 stops of DR at base ISO? How does that work, exactly?

Download this: https://builds.magiclantern.fm/#/ ... then follow these exact steps: Enable the dual_iso module, enable the dual_iso feature in the expo menu and set to to iso800 or iso1600 when in a tough spot.

But as you surely known my answer when asking, we can go straight to "Neuro educates about the difference between resolution and pixel count"

Indeed. The point is that the dual ISO feature of ML isn't free, there's a resolution penalty. Listing '2 EV more DR' as a feature of the 5DIII is disingenuous.

 

[Marsu42]

Indeed. The point is that the dual ISO feature of ML isn't free, there's a resolution penalty. Listing '2 EV more DR' as a feature of the 5DIII is disingenuous.

Nope, it isn't. First off, I didn't write that more res and more dr are there at the same time, this what you made up from two items separated by a comma. If I write "the 7d2 has dpaf, ir metering and a 65x af array" that doesn't mean that both are there at the same time. Implying that the latter is disingenuous because you could have just written "prone to misinterpretation".

Furthermore, ML's dual iso resolution penalty is negligible in practice because the post-processing utility does such a terrific job joining the interlaced iso lines. At first, I didn't believe it, but it's just like that (but you cannot try for yourself, so you're excused there). If there is a res penalty, I'd evaluate it at max 3.9mp, so the 5d3+dual_iso has still more resolution than the 1dx :->

 

[East Wind Photography]

... and you've forgotten some features of the 5d3 the 1dx doesn't have: More resolution (1dx: 18mp, 5d3: 22mp), more dynamic range at base iso (5d3 has ~2ev more)

So, you have more resolution (actual resolution, not pixel count) with the 5DIII at the same time as you have that extra ~2 stops of DR at base ISO? How does that work, exactly?

Download this: https://builds.magiclantern.fm/#/ ... then follow these exact steps: Enable the dual_iso module, enable the dual_iso feature in the expo menu and set to to iso800 or iso1600 when in a tough spot.

But as you surely known my answer when asking, we can go straight to "Neuro educates about the difference between resolution and pixel count"

Indeed. The point is that the dual ISO feature of ML isn't free, there's a resolution penalty. Listing '2 EV more DR' as a feature of the 5DIII is disingenuous.

The overlapped portion of both data sets are full resolution. Only the highlight and deep shadow are not. So we could say it's only half disingenuous and only that part which most eyes dont pay much attention to. Properly exposed images are still necessary.

 

[Loswr]

First off, I didn't write that more res and more dr are there at the same time, this what you made up from two items separated by a comma. If I write "the 7d2 has dpaf, ir metering and a 65x af array" that doesn't mean that both are there at the same time. Implying that the latter is disingenuous because you could have just written "prone to misinterpretation".

Fair enough, but intentionally open to misinterpretation (or do you believe that every single reader of this thread will be familiar with the features of ML?).

Let's try this, then...to have the 5DIII directly geotag images requires you to buy a Canon accessory that must attach to the hotshoe (precluding use of an E-TTL flash) or attach via a cable (compromising the weather sealing); the 1D X does not.

 

[Marsu42]

Fair enough, but intentionally open to misinterpretation (or do you believe that every single reader of this thread will be familiar with the features of ML?).

Sure, but you have to put my post into the thread context: I was replying to someone who claimed that more expensive cameras are better across the board, and I followed suit in the elaboration of my reply. It's not like you aren't known to have fallen victim to the habit of writing some "less than carefully weighed" posts

Let's try this, then...to have the 5DIII directly geotag images requires you to buy a Canon accessory that must attach to the hotshoe (precluding use of an E-TTL flash) or attach via a cable (compromising the weather sealing); the 1D X does not.

Well, if that's worth €2000 to you, it's your money :-> ... btw I just noticed that at least in Germany the 1dx has gone down a *lot*. Maybe there are more and more ML fans out there ?