Canon 80D RAW files available for download. DR improved.

[K]

The 80D is shaping up to be a serious enthusiast camera. As I've said in past posts, this now means the 7D2 is about only three things:

1. Build / Weather Sealing
2. FPS
3. Dual Slots

All of which applies more to pros or those with great demands.

The 45pt AF and 7fps is "good enough" for the vast majority out there. They have closed the gap with AF unless the programming of the AF is crippled somehow. I will call the 45pt AF a wash...once you get up to that many points, the AF now is in the realm of usefulness for action, not having to focus and recompose .....

I do think this will dig into 7D2 sales for those people who wanted more than the 70D, especially in AF and IQ but not necessarily speed.

Figure, if you're not needing 10fps, or a super tough body...or 2 card slots for mission critical jobs - there's nothing the 7D2 offers you. If anything, it is just larger and heavier.


With Nikon D500 coming up, I think Canon may actually break this 5-6 year update cycle and release a Mark III. But that's for the rumor section.

 

[Sharlin]

The 80D is shaping up to be a serious enthusiast camera. As I've said in past posts, this now means the 7D2 is about only three things:

1. Build / Weather Sealing
2. FPS
3. Dual Slots

All of which applies more to pros or those with great demands.

My thoughts pretty much. Even the sealing on the 80D is probably going to be enough for almost anybody - Canon claims the 70D is already as well sealed as the very well regarded original 7D was. (Of course, it is well-known that the 7D2 sealing is in a different class altogether!)

The D500 looks like even more a mini-D5 than the 7D2 like a mini-1DX. Looks like Canon and Nikon both figure that with modern technology, there's market for an actual pro crop body. I speculate any future 7D3 will look quite a bit like the 1DX2, tech-wise.

 

[whothafunk]

As I've said in past posts, this now means the 7D2 is about only three things:

1. Build / Weather Sealing
2. FPS
3. Dual Slots

The 45pt AF and 7fps is "good enough" for the vast majority out there. They have closed the gap with AF unless the programming of the AF is crippled somehow. I will call the 45pt AF a wash...once you get up to that many points, the AF now is in the realm of usefulness for action, not having to focus and recompose .....

It's not how many focus points you have, it's how fast the camera focuses, keeps track on moving subject, and so on.
7D2 still has far superior focusing than 80D, utilizing 1DX's autofocus algorithm, case selection, lens drive speed, etc.

The 7D2 is about these things:
- ergonomics
- build quality/toughness
- FPS
- superior AF
- buffer
- larger viewfinder
- more durable shutter
- dual card slot

It also has GPS and iTR, which I personally don't care about, but neither do I for the Wi-Fi and tilty screen.

 

[Sharlin]

You're not the only one. One thing is sure: 7DMK2 has the better ergonomics. Esp. if you have large hands (like I do). And 2 card slots (even if they are mixed).
I'm gnawing my fingers trying to come up with a decision.
(I don't need the tilt screen, I don't need 24MPix, but I want a camera that is as easy to handle as my old 50D)

To my hands my 60D is pretty okay, though it could be a bit bigger. The joystick and larger rear dial would be nice. The extra weight, not so much. I do like the swivel screen and probably would get somewhat frustrated without it. Never have had a need for an extra card slot.

Also depends if you need speed. The 7D2 is unbelievable for Sports if you can't afford a 1DX.

Yep, although the 80D AF may well prove to be very adequate for that. I'm interested in partner dance shooting which is pretty challenging, both tech and skill-wise.

It depends on how fast do you need the next body and how long you will keep it. The 7d3 will be out next year with an improved 80D sensor and much better NR like the 7d2 has over the 70D. The 7d3 will be more feature loaded with 4k video, greater buffer size, 1dx2 focus, wifi and maybe touchscreen also. If you can wait till next year then the $1200 you save can get you more further than it would today. If you do need it sooner then wait or look around for a 7d2 with a printer deal around $1100, once the D500 starts shipping (if and when that actually happens) the 7d2 will see some nice sales as the demand for the body is already low now and will get much worse when the D500 hits the streets.

Right. I don't really really need a new body right now, my 60D is pretty adequate, the 80D just got me uncharacteristically excited. And, of course, the 60D is a six-year-old model, and already was three years old when I bought one.

The 7D2 is currently just a hundred eurobucks more expensive than the 80D preorder (1299 €) in a local brick-and-mortar store and has been on sale for less than that. It probably doesn't make sense for me to wait for a 7D3 especially seeing that its list price will no doubt be something like 1800 €.

 

[CapturingLight]

I'm quite exited about this camera, increased low ISO DR is a nice addition but it remains to be seen if my photos will benefit. There is so much more to be excited about. The biggest difference I can see looking though the samples between the 80D and the 7200 is the 7200 seems to be noticeably sharper. I assume that this is due to the AA filter on the Canon. I really wish that these sites would do a series of moire test as I know that I have been caught by that before even with the Canon AA filter. It would be nice to know how much worse it can get without the filter so a more informed decision on this trade off can be made.

Just trying to hold the GAS in check for the 1st sales on the 80D to appear.

 

[rbr]

One significant feature of this camera is that f8 AF will be enabled on all the focus points. Keep in mind that the 1DXII is the first camera EVER announced with f8 AF on anything besides the center point. That would make this camera ideal for songbird portraits in decent light, especially on a tripod, without having to rely only on the center point. Something like the 400 f4 DO II with a 2x becomes nearly a 1300mm lens with all AF points available in a very lightweight package.

 

[PhotographyFirst]

I'm quite exited about this camera, increased low ISO DR is a nice addition but it remains to be seen if my photos will benefit. There is so much more to be excited about. The biggest difference I can see looking though the samples between the 80D and the 7200 is the 7200 seems to be noticeably sharper. I assume that this is due to the AA filter on the Canon. I really wish that these sites would do a series of moire test as I know that I have been caught by that before even with the Canon AA filter. It would be nice to know how much worse it can get without the filter so a more informed decision on this trade off can be made.

Just trying to hold the GAS in check for the 1st sales on the 80D to appear.

If the lenses are different, then it is hard to say really. After a processing pass and using the same lens, the sharpness difference should not be much for printing. Zooming a 24MP image to 100% or more to pixel peep is going to grossly exaggerate and differences.

 

[PhotographyFirst]

Here's a side-by-side of the 80D and the D7200. The Nikon D7200 is apparently the king of APS-C DR and even even only second to the D800 series cameras for DSLR cameras. According to DXO, which should be taken with a bit of radioactive salt.

To my eyes, the Canon suffers from less color shifting. Or are the WB levels different for some reason? But overall, the two look almost identical in terms of DR at ISO 100 when pushed a few stops.

Image courtesy of this post on DPR. http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57461339

 

[Sharlin]

One significant feature of this camera is that f8 AF will be enabled on all the focus points. Keep in mind that the 1DXII is the first camera EVER announced with f8 AF on anything besides the center point. That would make this camera ideal for songbird portraits in decent light, especially on a tripod, without having to rely only on the center point. Something like the 400 f4 DO II with a 2x becomes nearly a 1300mm lens with all AF points available in a very lightweight package.

Not quite so I'm afraid. The 80D AF at f/8 works as follows:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Lens group G: 27 AF points usable. 3x3 at the center all cross-type, two 3x3 groups on the sides horizontal-sensitive only. There are exactly two lens/extender combos in this group:

• Canon EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM II + Canon EF 1.4x III
• Canon EF 200-400 f/4 L IS USM EX1.4 + Canon EF 2x III

[*]Lens group H: Only center AF point usable. Cross-type. All other >f/5.6 lenses and lens-extender combinations.
[/list]

Source: The 80D instruction manual pp. 128-135

 

[ehouli]

To my eyes, the image from the RAW at ISO 1600 look too soft, when trying to compensate for it in post, noise will be bad as always, ISO 1600 es used very often and Canon could have a done a better job, they're lagging behind in DR.

 

[CapturingLight]

One significant feature of this camera is that f8 AF will be enabled on all the focus points. Keep in mind that the 1DXII is the first camera EVER announced with f8 AF on anything besides the center point. That would make this camera ideal for songbird portraits in decent light, especially on a tripod, without having to rely only on the center point. Something like the 400 f4 DO II with a 2x becomes nearly a 1300mm lens with all AF points available in a very lightweight package.

Unfortunately that combination only will work with the center point f8. According to the 80D manual only the 100-400 and 200-400 lenses support off center f8 auto focus.

 

[PhotographyFirst]

I did an ACR RAW conversion of the 80D (left) and D7200 (right) at ISO 100.

Pushed 5 stops, equal WB values, no sharpening, everything else left as default.

Someone over on DPR that knows vastly more about sensor and data tech than I do, seems to think the measured DR is lower for the 80D because of the way Canon handles the file data, but in actual use, is probably pretty close to Nikon's best. It will be interesting to see how DXO measures the 80D if it is found that the actual files from it offer the same level of DR as Nikon in real-world use.

 

[rbr]

Thanks for posting this. Here's a quote from the features listed at B&H, which no doubt was given to them by Canon :

" For working with telephoto lenses fitted with extenders, 27 of the points are capable of focusing down to f/8 and the center dual cross-type offers increased precision at brighter aperture values."

If that is only the case for 2 lenses then it's a bit of false advertising on Canon's part. In any case, having f8 AF at all on a camera of this class is a first and I'm sure many 100-400II owners will enjoy the extra flexibility.

One significant feature of this camera is that f8 AF will be enabled on all the focus points. Keep in mind that the 1DXII is the first camera EVER announced with f8 AF on anything besides the center point. That would make this camera ideal for songbird portraits in decent light, especially on a tripod, without having to rely only on the center point. Something like the 400 f4 DO II with a 2x becomes nearly a 1300mm lens with all AF points available in a very lightweight package.

Not quite so I'm afraid. The 80D AF at f/8 works as follows:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Lens group G: 27 AF points usable. 3x3 at the center all cross-type, two 3x3 groups on the sides horizontal-sensitive only. There are exactly two lens/extender combos in this group:

• Canon EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM II + Canon EF 1.4x III
• Canon EF 200-400 f/4 L IS USM EX1.4 + Canon EF 2x III

[*]Lens group H: Only center AF point usable. Cross-type. All other >f/5.6 lenses and lens-extender combinations.
[/list]

Source: The 80D instruction manual pp. 128-135

 

[PhotographyFirst]

Thanks for posting this. Here's a quote from the features listed at B&H, which no doubt was given to them by Canon :

" For working with telephoto lenses fitted with extenders, 27 of the points are capable of focusing down to f/8 and the center dual cross-type offers increased precision at brighter aperture values."

If that is only the case for 2 lenses then it's a bit of false advertising on Canon's part. In any case, having f8 AF at all on a camera of this class is a first and I'm sure many 100-400II owners will enjoy the extra flexibility.

One significant feature of this camera is that f8 AF will be enabled on all the focus points. Keep in mind that the 1DXII is the first camera EVER announced with f8 AF on anything besides the center point. That would make this camera ideal for songbird portraits in decent light, especially on a tripod, without having to rely only on the center point. Something like the 400 f4 DO II with a 2x becomes nearly a 1300mm lens with all AF points available in a very lightweight package.

Not quite so I'm afraid. The 80D AF at f/8 works as follows:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Lens group G: 27 AF points usable. 3x3 at the center all cross-type, two 3x3 groups on the sides horizontal-sensitive only. There are exactly two lens/extender combos in this group:

• Canon EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM II + Canon EF 1.4x III
• Canon EF 200-400 f/4 L IS USM EX1.4 + Canon EF 2x III

[*]Lens group H: Only center AF point usable. Cross-type. All other >f/5.6 lenses and lens-extender combinations.
[/list]

Source: The 80D instruction manual pp. 128-135

The D7200 has had f8 focusing for a while now. If anything, Canon is catching up a little in that regard, and surpassing it with the two lenses mentioned for wider f8 focusing.

I would be curious to know why it is limited to those 2 lenses? Optical designs? Electronics? Canon trying to protect sales of more expensive gear?

 

[jrista]

Hmm, I'm intrigued. First time in a long time I've been intrigued by a Canon camera. I grabbed two ISO 100 NR 0 frames from ImagingResource. The 80D image was 1/13th and the 7D II image was 1/15th, so close in exposure.

There is a definite improvement in noise quality in the shadows:

7D II:

80D:

Neither of these images had particularly deep shadows, so this comparison is probably not showing the full benefit of the 80D improvement. Still, it's a fairly obvious improvement nevertheless. The blacks also appear to be more neutral in color, with less of that classic red cast.

 

[Sharlin]

Thanks for posting this. Here's a quote from the features listed at B&H, which no doubt was given to them by Canon :

" For working with telephoto lenses fitted with extenders, 27 of the points are capable of focusing down to f/8 and the center dual cross-type offers increased precision at brighter aperture values."

If that is only the case for 2 lenses then it's a bit of false advertising on Canon's part. In any case, having f8 AF at all on a camera of this class is a first and I'm sure many 100-400II owners will enjoy the extra flexibility.

Yep, I too was a bit nonplussed with Canon's marketing department when I saw the actual specs.

I would be curious to know why it is limited to those 2 lenses? Optical designs? Electronics? Canon trying to protect sales of more expensive gear?

Probably optical reasons. Those two lenses are the newest Canon big whites, and non-center f/8 autofocus has probably been a specific concern in their design. We can probably expect other Group G lenses as Canon renews its telephoto lineup (of course, most of the interesting ones have already been updated recently!) I doubt it has lot to do with product segmentation - after all, who would really use the $10k 200-400 with a ten-series body?

 

[scyrene]

To my eyes, the image from the RAW at ISO 1600 look too soft, when trying to compensate for it in post, noise will be bad as always, ISO 1600 es used very often and Canon could have a done a better job, they're lagging behind in DR.

With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. Canon do not and have never lagged behind in high ISO DR. This discussion is about low ISO.

 

[rrcphoto]

Not only for still images, I think Nikon d7200 video quality is also very good except no live AF.

are you able to have full manual control on the D7200 while recording video?

 

[rrcphoto]

The 80D is shaping up to be a serious enthusiast camera. As I've said in past posts, this now means the 7D2 is about only three things:

1. Build / Weather Sealing
2. FPS
3. Dual Slots

viewfinder as well.

 

[Otara]

Having multiple F8 work on everything is pretty useful for my lenses, and surely dual digic does something for AF etc, be interesting to see in practise if theres any practical difference.

But given the sensor, swivel screen and DPAF at 60FPS, I do find myself tempted. More GAS than sense, thats me.