Canon aiming for a $799 full-frame camera? [CR2]

AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
8,854
12,101
I was impressed when I checked the MFD/mag of the EF100-400mm vs RF100-500mm ie 980mm (.31x) to 900mm (.33x) with the latter being @ 500mm. Reduced weight, collapsed size, stability and AF speed are bonuses. Would you upgrade to the RF100-500mm or stick with your EF100-400mm if Canon released a crop RF body?
Canon has been a little bit naughty about its information about the mfd of the RF 100-500mm. The mfd at 500mm is 1194mm, and 971mm at 100mm, as measured by TDP and which I also find at 500mm. Having written that, I have to say the 100-500mm at 500mm is really good close up, and even better than the 100-400mm II, especially when 2xTCs are used. The RF at 1000mm is superb for close ups of insects.
 

adrian_bacon

EOS M6 Mark II
Aug 12, 2020
89
86
That's just… hilarious and incredibly out of touch with the reality of normal people. Most of us here on actual Earth have money to spend on a single body, and that body is not going to be an R6 or R5 or anything else that costs several thousand eurodollars. You sound like that one guy here who thought that being able to afford a couple of Big Whites per year is totally normal.
I’m a working professional photographer, and yes, I buy big whites and charge my customers appropriately for their use on the job so that they pay for themselves. And, yes, that’s not normal because normal people aren’t working professional photographers, they’re consumers, the vast majority of which think all they need is their iPhones. Those work great for many photos, however, there are use cases for more than an iPhone, and in those use cases, you either rent the appropriate equipment, or if you do that type of thing a lot, you buy it, and still charge your customers the rental fee for every job. At the end of the day, they are tools. It’s hilariously out of touch with reality to see them as anything else.
 
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Aug 7, 2018
356
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Of course cropping each photo is more work than having a crop camera in the first place, but don't these cameras have a crop mode? I really hope they have one. On a camera with an EVF crops make lot of sense, as the cropped image can be expanded to the whole viewfinder. And why only a specfic crop? I think it should be possible to set the crop factor as a parameter like exposure. Imagine you could use the additional ring at the RF lenses to crop in seemlessly. Imagine the fun in situations where you only need a 2 megapixel anyway and therfore can apply a 4.7 times crop to your image on the R5 and your far away subject will fill your viewfinder. I would use that crop dial very often, as some of my photos are only used for instagram anyway and the macimum resolution there is 1080x1350.
 

Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
428
519
Orewa , New Zealand
You can think that but the dedicated camera market is shrinking. Fuji revenue is significantly down with only their new segments (Healthcare & Material Solutions segment) having growth and positive cash flow.

Same for Sony. Sony fans make it out like their dedicated camera lines are juggernauts and top tier in the industry. But they're not. Sony's EP&S (Electronic Products & Solutions segment) is down significantly due to declining digital camera sales. The only reason operating income increased was because they reduced costs in their mobile phone business and TV business although those segments also saw decreased sales. Their Imaging & Sensing Solutions segment was down significantly for FY2020 due to decreased mobile demand. In fact, Sony in their financial statement said, "Due to the uncertain market environment, Sony is carefully reviewing its capital expenditure plans in this segment in relation to projected demand through the fiscal year ending March 31, 2022..."

Digital camera fans live in a bubble because they love their products so much. But the reality is the dedicated camera markets are shrinking and it's all about maximizing revenue from that shrinking market. Going for the sub $1k market is only commoditizing and decreasing value of your products.
Sadly true but the professional and high end enthusiast market is fairly stable so the camera companies will be focusing on this segment as it's still profitable . However only some companies will survive or choose to keep their camera divisions going.
Canon's imaging division being the biggest player and also using it as a flagship for their company will certainly keep going but which other ones is hard to predict.
Sony and Nikon are part of very large companies but will they choose to keep their camera divisions going if the profits fall too much , who knows? I hope these 2 survive to give Canon some healthy competition.
Panasonic, Fuji and Pentax are probably too small volume wise to keep developing new products for much longer though.
 

pzyber

Canon Shooter
Mar 25, 2011
29
35
Sweden
www.jimmynordstrom.se
"Just crop..." Another thing that people who say this don't seem to understand, is that it is not always easy to get your composition correct when you have to judge where your "crop lines" will be. And composition is arguably the most important factor in what constitutes a good photo (In the art world, "Design" or "Composition" are usually atop every poll on the subject of what is the most important aspect of a painting). If you can compose your shot using the entire viewfinder it will always, without exception, make it easier to get your composition the way you want it.
Even my 5Ds R from 2015 can show a 1.6x crop in the optical viewfinder. It darkens everything around it so composition isn't much of a problem. I doubt more modern cameras lack this feature. I still get a better experience composing in crop mode with my 5Ds R than I do with my 7D viewfinder. 5Ds R lacks the fps though hence I kept my 7D for those situations where it's needed.

Also the RF system is young. Looking at the switch to EF it took about 10 years to fill most categories of lenses. I'm pretty sure more long lenses will come out eventually. The problem with EF was the 5.6 AF limitation, hence more costly crop cameras could be beneficial since no smaller/longer/affordable lenses could be made. An R6 with 600 or 800/11 or any other future affordable long lenses and cameras will most likely be an better option than crop sensors.
 
Aug 7, 2018
356
306
If you have an EVF, there is no need to darken anything around the cropped area. Instead the cropped area can be expanded to the whole EVF. At least it should work that way.
 

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
1,919
1,860
If you have an EVF, there is no need to darken anything around the cropped area. Instead the cropped area can be expanded to the whole EVF. At least it should work that way.
And that's how it is already working on the R series.
 

John Wilde

EOS 90D
Jan 2, 2021
133
225
There are three reasons that I currently prefer APS-C: Price, Price, and Price.

If Canon can resolve that difference, I will become a fan of FF.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
2,178
885
Davidson, NC
I’m already a fan of FF, but there are three reasons that I currently use APS-C as well: Size, Portability, and Convenience.
My T3i can take great pictures. It can use all my lenses. Since I got the 6D2, I have had no occasion to use the Rebel. For “Size, Portability, and Convenience,” I take my G5X II. I don’t gain enough of that from the T3i to bother with it. I am favorably disposed toward the M series, but I have not bought one because I haven’t figured out when I would ever use it.

I can understand why other people have different needs and interests from mine, and why they might choose different compromises and alternatives. That’s just how things work for me.
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
26,058
4,622
I am favorably disposed toward the M series, but I have not bought one because I haven’t figured out when I would ever use it.
I have an M6, an M2 and all of the EF-M lenses. It’s portable enough that I can bring overnight business trips (no carryon luggage), but unlike a P&S it gives me lens options from ultrawide to telephoto. Here’s an 11mm shot from an overnight trip to London:
56D9FBFA-9F76-4D2E-8032-B22B6C1101BF.jpeg
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
2,178
885
Davidson, NC
I have an M6, an M2 and all of the EF-M lenses. It’s portable enough that I can bring overnight business trips (no carryon luggage), but unlike a P&S it gives me lens options from ultrawide to telephoto. Here’s an 11mm shot from an overnight trip to London:
View attachment 198995
A lot of my reluctance to carry a range of gear goes back to when I was more serious about photography. I went for years not taking a camera at all on trips so that I would see and do the things I went there for, and not get too caught up into just taking pictures. Then for the last 21 years I trusted myself with more limited cameras. That has worked out pretty well, slipping a little in Prague. In October and November, 2019, I took 3000 pictures with the G5X II in Italy and then on a 14-night Mediterranean cruise. That sounds like a relapse, but I really didn’t get too caught up in photography. I just took a lot of pictures while I saw and did things.

The camera has a 24-120mm equivalent lens. In traveling, I don’t miss having a longer lens. But for scenic vistas and cramped interiors, I could use a wider lens. So I take multiple shots to stitch together back home. Inside the Pantheon I took many pictures of the dome and the resulting composite still has blank corners. With a Rebel or an M I’d use my 10-22mm zoom. The G lens is faster than my EF-S lenses (and my iPhone), so there’s that.
 

Rocky

EOS R
Jul 30, 2010
1,016
89
If I need to travel light I took my M50 with 15-45. This set up actually survived 3 days of snow, rain and hale in West Lake, China. I dare not to change lens under that kind of condition.
 

tomsop

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 23, 2012
80
12
I bet the new Mirrorless Full Frame will have cropped 4K video and lack IBIS. What a failure - this is the death of Canon. Saving my money anyway for the next iPhone.
 
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tomsop

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 23, 2012
80
12
On a related note - The camera on my iPhone has now become the main reason I upgrade my iPhone. It has caught up to the Canon M and gives me 4K video unlike my M5. Joe Rogan recently was showing off a picture of the moon he took with his phone (forgot what brand) and that is what I think is the mentality of most people - the iPhone is good enough except special use cases like wedding photographers, video journalists and you tube people. The typical consumer will not be touching a camera ever again in the next few years unless it is attached to their phone. Prices for lens and camera will never get too cheap - the entry level full frame is a gateway drug into a system where the lenses are more costly than the camera. I refuse to take the bait - tired of crippled features like cropped 4K and no IBIS, weak batteries, etc.
 
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unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
6,405
4,032
68
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
On a related note - The camera on my iPhone has now become the main reason I upgrade my iPhone...that is what I think is the mentality of most people - the iPhone is good enough except special use cases...The typical consumer will not be touching a camera ever again in the next few years unless it is attached to their phone...
If an iPhone suits your needs, then you shouldn't buy a dedicated camera. Also, if an iPhone suits your needs, you shouldn't waste your time posting to this forum. And, yes, I agree that the typical consumer is probably never going to buy a camera unless it can send text messages. It seems like no one under the age of 30 even uses phones for calls these days, mostly texting and sharing pictures on social media.
 

Hobby

RP 6D 90D
Jul 23, 2017
24
19
Belgium
A lot of my reluctance to carry a range of gear goes back to when I was more serious about photography. I went for years not taking a camera at all on trips so that I would see and do the things I went there for, and not get too caught up into just taking pictures. Then for the last 21 years I trusted myself with more limited cameras. That has worked out pretty well, slipping a little in Prague. In October and November, 2019, I took 3000 pictures with the G5X II in Italy and then on a 14-night Mediterranean cruise. That sounds like a relapse, but I really didn’t get too caught up in photography. I just took a lot of pictures while I saw and did things.

The camera has a 24-120mm equivalent lens. In traveling, I don’t miss having a longer lens. But for scenic vistas and cramped interiors, I could use a wider lens. So I take multiple shots to stitch together back home. Inside the Pantheon I took many pictures of the dome and the resulting composite still has blank corners. With a Rebel or an M I’d use my 10-22mm zoom. The G lens is faster than my EF-S lenses (and my iPhone), so there’s that.
I also am always surprised that my G5X ii gives very very good pictures. The lens is wide and long enough, as you mention, and sharp enough.
It has a good mini-mini-grip, one can hold it forever. It has an EVF if you want one. Focus is good.
Ergonomics are way better than a phone. I am always hesitating to leave my M100 with adapted Ef-s 10-22mm at home.
One negative: that G5X lens mechanism that drives the lens out when you switch on the camera seems fragile. I wonder how long it will live...
And my 6D or RP are better cameras, I have to admit that.
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
2,178
885
Davidson, NC
I also am always surprised that my G5X ii gives very very good pictures. The lens is wide and long enough, as you mention, and sharp enough.
It has a good mini-mini-grip, one can hold it forever. It has an EVF if you want one. Focus is good.
Ergonomics are way better than a phone. I am always hesitating to leave my M100 with adapted Ef-s 10-22mm at home.
One negative: that G5X lens mechanism that drives the lens out when you switch on the camera seems fragile. I wonder how long it will live...
And my 6D or RP are better cameras, I have to admit that.
As for fragility, I used S cameras for years and a G7XII for years before I got the 5, and never had a bit of mechanical trouble with them. I doubt they could stand much abuse when opened up, and I wouldn’t bury them in sand. But they do fine in normal use. I carried the 7 as a backup along with the 5 when I toured the Mediterranean in fall, 2019. Both take up inconsequential room in my under the seat bag.

A huge advantage to me over cell phones is their shooting Raw. Lens corrections can be applied and adjusted after the fact, as well as exposure. Even with some cropping 13” x 19” prints look great, as well as stitched panoramas on roll paper.