Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
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Zlatko
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That's just the way the technology business is. Buy the big screen TV that just came out and you pay full price. Buy the one that came out last year and you get a discount. It's variable pricing over time. As prices come down, they attract new buyers with smaller budgets. Is this news to anyone?Renegade Runner said:
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OK. Breathe.
Yes, that OP was a little over the top, and yes, new cars and new computers (especially) and new clothes depreciate pretty rapidly, especially in 2nd-hand sale. That is very relevant as a comparison.
But, on the other hand, releasing a model of something at an absurdly high retail price, then almost immediately cutting its retail price dramatically may be an innocent adjustment to your gross miscalculation of market demand (acceptable though dumb) or it could be a kind of "customer un-appreciation" if too extreme, and too pre-planned. There IS an element of trust involved in a loyal customer buying a new product early from a company, and intentionally hosing that loyal customer would be overly sharp dealing, yes?
Yes, that OP was a little over the top, and yes, new cars and new computers (especially) and new clothes depreciate pretty rapidly, especially in 2nd-hand sale. That is very relevant as a comparison.
But, on the other hand, releasing a model of something at an absurdly high retail price, then almost immediately cutting its retail price dramatically may be an innocent adjustment to your gross miscalculation of market demand (acceptable though dumb) or it could be a kind of "customer un-appreciation" if too extreme, and too pre-planned. There IS an element of trust involved in a loyal customer buying a new product early from a company, and intentionally hosing that loyal customer would be overly sharp dealing, yes?
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Hmm..I look at this a bit differently. The camera virtually costs the same now as it did 7 or 8 months ago as there's been no change in product though a minor decrease in cost as more are being sold as it seems now. So let's say that cost to Canon was $1500 but they were charging $3500 and gaining a $2000 profit in this example. Now that same $1500 has dropped to $2600..same camera, same parts. Though their profit margin has dropped per unit they are selling more cameras as the price reductions makes it more appealing to more clients thus picking up in a higher quantity sales revenue stream vs. lower sales / greater profit margin (logical scenario). Wouldn't they have rather sold more up front and possibly grabbed competitive customers from Nikon or upgrades from crop sensor customers? I believe they lost some folks to Nikon (just go to Nikonrumors.com and see for yourself)and ticked off others on their high price gouging. Point being if they were willing to settle on a $2600 price now then why wait the 8 months to do so and lose 'any' prospects? PS - Some of you that use the camera to make a profit or make a living in photography boast unfairly that you've regained your money back. We are glad for you but that is a myopic standpoint when there are many others that do feel slighted from this drastic price drop in such a short period of time and earn no income from their photography. Canon didn't win any points here, they only lost (as there isn't one person that would favor a higher price) as those that are now soured will wait on future releases and no longer be early adopters which I believe are key in their "testing the waters"- net result is unfavorable in any regard..there's no win to anyone there. My belief is there was too much of a price drop in too short of a period of time. Not griping about a price drop per say, we all know that is to be expected and I think most accept this but not at 26% (2600 / 3500) as Nikon's decrease seems more in line than the extortion-like routine that Canon pulled.
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Maybe I'm looking at things from an overly logical standpoint, but look here are the facts.
Canon has PROVEN that they are willing to create pricing situations which result in new quadrupling of depreciation on both old and new gear. The 5D2 AND the 5D3 were affected, as well as the T4i, and to a lesser degree the 1DX ($900 in 3 months).
For most photographers we are constantly upgrading, meaning depreciation IS the amount we pay for our gear. I've bought lenses that have changed hands 18 times based on serial number look up. Gear changes hands a lot based on needs.
Canon's new pricing strategy indicates they have quadrupled the net costs of owning their equipment for most of their major cameras.
If we as photographers are logical, we would be very weary to buy Canon cameras until they prove they will cease the shenanigans. Canon cameras did not suddenly start producing images that were 4 times better, the competition is extremely close and really only a small bit of personal preference separates them.
Simply put in the cost/benefit equation Canon has increased the costs 4 fold. This is a huge game changer and photographer's relationship with Canon would benefit from being reconsidered.
Canon has PROVEN that they are willing to create pricing situations which result in new quadrupling of depreciation on both old and new gear. The 5D2 AND the 5D3 were affected, as well as the T4i, and to a lesser degree the 1DX ($900 in 3 months).
For most photographers we are constantly upgrading, meaning depreciation IS the amount we pay for our gear. I've bought lenses that have changed hands 18 times based on serial number look up. Gear changes hands a lot based on needs.
Canon's new pricing strategy indicates they have quadrupled the net costs of owning their equipment for most of their major cameras.
If we as photographers are logical, we would be very weary to buy Canon cameras until they prove they will cease the shenanigans. Canon cameras did not suddenly start producing images that were 4 times better, the competition is extremely close and really only a small bit of personal preference separates them.
Simply put in the cost/benefit equation Canon has increased the costs 4 fold. This is a huge game changer and photographer's relationship with Canon would benefit from being reconsidered.
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Hobby Shooter
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Rev, not sure I agree with you here. For every major product launch a company like Canon, Nikon, Dell, Apple whatever will lose some customers due to disappointment of the products and win some thanks to the product. I am sure there are customers who have gone the other way also, when Nikon launched the D800 I am sure there were plenty of people who were disappointed with its limited abilities in terms of AF, burst speed and low light performance. We might not have heard of these people here at this forum, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I have also been over to nikonrumors (asking about lenses for a friend) and seen a couple of guys saying they are moving away from Nikon. In a a couple of these cases, from their approach it seems more to me like that they are looking for acknowledgement and appreciation more than asking for advise about the Nikon product line. My guess is that several of them won't buy a Nikon in the end either.revup67 said:
In terms of price, well I was one of the early adopters (but waited long enough for the light leak to be fixed for future resell purposes) so I paid a heavy price for it. I am not a professional and definitely didn't need the camera in that sense, but it's still nice to have it and use it. Photography is an expensive hobby for me, I make some money out of it but not enough to cover the hardware cost.
Technology always gets cheaper once it's produced in volumes, that is why we have quad core processors in our computers. Software and services don't follow that price curve.
Nikon's price policy in the case of D800 and D600 for me is inexplicable, it seems that they are in deep trouble or that they have gotten a really cheap price on the sensors from Sony OR did the Dell mistake of using too cheap components for some parts of the camera. That is something that always comes back to bite the company doing that.
My main point though is that all companies will win or lose companies in times of change or major launches. I wouldn't worry too much about the 8 or 10 guys shouting out their hate/frustration in a sometimes overly histrionic fashion.
In the end, I got to agree with you a bit though, the price drop was significant.
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Zlatko
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It's really nothing like extortion. That's over the top too, though not as over the top as the OP's "screwing without lube" comment.revup67 said:
I hope everyone who is complaining about the price drops now will come back here to applaud Canon when prices go up. Like, "Woohoo, prices are UP! Glad that cost cutting is over!" When, for whatever reason — seasonal sales ending, exchange rates, inflation, shortages, increased supply costs, etc. — prices go up 10, 20 or 30%, ... will you start a thread about how rational, sensible, fair, happiness-inducing and loyalty-rewarding the new pricing strategy is?
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rj79in
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Radiating said:
Brilliant thinking but I doubt whether a corporation loses its customer base / credibility with only the price point
. I always thought that the product quality is the first and foremost reason to choose or stick to a particular brand. I don't see Apple losing too many of its customers despite the obscene introductory pricing for some of its products.Unless I'm unhappy with Canon's product quality I don't think I'll be switching systems just because the price at which I bought a product, is not held out by Canon for a longer period of time.
Unless you are living on a different planet you should know that the prices come down eventually and so, should wait. On the other hand if you are really craving for a particular product you will get it if you can afford it. What's the point of moaning???
Going by this logic one would moan that a vacation in Miami could be done for less in July as compared to say, February. You know what the current prices are and what the prices are expected in the future ... plan your purchases accordingly.
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Yes. Canon should give their cameras away for free. Or, more realistically, provide them on a subscription basis. They probably don't cost that much to manufacture anyway, so if they did this directly from the factory it wouldn't cost them too much. They'd easily make up the cash in extra lens sales to the millions of new Canon DSLR users. Basic Marketing 101.
Would you pay $400/yr to rent a 5Diii directly from Canon on a 3 year agreement? $1000/yr for a 1Dx?
Would you pay $400/yr to rent a 5Diii directly from Canon on a 3 year agreement? $1000/yr for a 1Dx?
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It's pretty simple.
Canon add an early adopter premium at launch, this reduces gradually until around a year afterwards. Incidentally, by this time, they have also worked out any quality problems/firmware glitches with the camera.
So, if you can wait a year before buying your camera, you will get a better product at a much reduced price.
Canon add an early adopter premium at launch, this reduces gradually until around a year afterwards. Incidentally, by this time, they have also worked out any quality problems/firmware glitches with the camera.
So, if you can wait a year before buying your camera, you will get a better product at a much reduced price.
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I don't get the issue with depreciation. In my mind, you set a price at which you say "now I'm willing to buy it, the camera or lens is worth this much to me" at that point you simply go out and buy it. Once you have done that, you have the pleasure of using it. I bought the pancake lens when it came out at 280 euro. Now it's only 200. You could say that I lost 80 euro on it, but it does not feel that way. I have been taking great pictures with it and love to have it on my camera. I love the lens at 300 euro, I love it at 200 and I would not have bought it, if it was 400. And the good news is that if it ever breaks down, I can now get a new one for only 200 euro now instead of 280. Every month you have it, is an extra month you can enjoy what you bought.
Things can go down or up in value, but at least you have the object you desired. If the value of it bothers you so much, put the money to buy it it on a separate bank account and pretend you have bought it and hey presto, it becomes worth more every year.
Things can go down or up in value, but at least you have the object you desired. If the value of it bothers you so much, put the money to buy it it on a separate bank account and pretend you have bought it and hey presto, it becomes worth more every year.
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What i always do is wait. Wait around 6 months from the launch of a new product then look at the reviews. If i need it I buy it. After that time the price stabilises and you get some second hand bargains. The 70/200 mk2 was well over £2100 when launched. Bought an almost new one 6 months later at £1600. Camera bodies the same. Whilst im no lover of big corporations, they charge what the individual market of that country will bear. If we dont like it, dont buy it then they will change their pricing policy. I did buy a new 500f4, £8200 full price. I know in 5 years time it will be worth the same or more. Dont know why Nikons stuff is that bit cheaper. I guess it depreciates less from launch and its what the market will bear.
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Lower prices is never a problem. Instead, initial very high prices are. But we set our own rules. If price is very high and we think an item is not worth it we simply don't get it. Let them try to sell it.
For example this is what I am thinking about the new 24, 28, 35 IS prime lenses. They are simply not worth it. (But this is just me. I wouldn't get them anyway.)
For example this is what I am thinking about the new 24, 28, 35 IS prime lenses. They are simply not worth it. (But this is just me. I wouldn't get them anyway.)
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