Canon Cinema EOS 4K Camera [CR1]

[Canon Rumors]

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<strong>Brief words


</strong>Received a brief bit of information regarding the <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/11/concept-cinema-dslr-official/" target="_blank">upcoming Canon Cinema EOS 4K DSLR</a>.</p>
<p>Apparently it won’t be available for purchase until Q4 2012 or early 2013. The announcement could come some time before then. Variations of the camera are in the wild, no specs are known beyond the 4K specification for the movie mode.</p>
<p>The form factor will apparently be in the form of a 1D style body as shown at the C300 announcement.</p>
<p>NAB 2012 is coming up in the middle of April, and we have heard nothing about a possible announcement before then.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[Axilrod]

I think/hope this is BS, but thanks either way!

 

[tjc320]

Why would I want a cinema camera to have the form factor of a 1D?! I won't be taking pictures with it, and heaven knows I won't be doing any portrait video work with it.

I'm also getting pretty impatient. I need a new camera but the 5DMIII isn't worth the jump. If their going to make us wait they should at least release specs so we know what we're waiting for.

What do you guys think? Would you want a video camera to have the form factor of the 1D?

 

[aZhu]

Maybe with the 4k resolution, they needed more space for dual Digic 5s and a larger battery?

 

[tjc320]

Maybe with the 4k resolution, they needed more space for dual Digic 5s and a larger battery?

...and XLRs? (doubt it) I agree, they probably need the extra space but I would rather see the 5D form factor with a thicker body rather than taller. More like a box shape. A dumbed down C300. If it's made for cinema it should do it 100% since no photographer is going to buy the camera.

There has been a lot of cameras being made with a more modular style. I would like to see this next camera more modular to allow people to customize it as much as possible. DSLR Rigs have become so ridiculous but that's only because you need 20 different arms branching off for different tools that make up for the lack of features in the DSLRs. You need an arm for an EVF, another for a recording device, another for a microphone, another for a monitor, a cupholder, an ashtray, ect.

 

[Policar]

Maybe with the 4k resolution, they needed more space for dual Digic 5s and a larger battery?

...and XLRs? (doubt it) I agree, they probably need the extra space but I would rather see the 5D form factor with a thicker body rather than taller. More like a box shape. A dumbed down C300. If it's made for cinema it should do it 100% since no photographer is going to buy the camera.

A lot of professional photographers crossed over into videography with the 5DII, 7D, etc. There's a lot of market for delivering both stills and video. Red was way ahead of the curve with their modular systems, the issue being that they took a while to deliver and the Epic is too awkward for a lone operator to use effectively as a still camera (how many wedding photographers shoot on the Scarlet or Epic)? But they've identified a market that exists and continues to grow. There's a lot of desire for a video/stills system--and I wonder how many sports photographers would use a 4k (APS-C) crop from the 1DX's sensor to extract stills. Sure the image quality would suffer and AF wouldn't be possible, but you could get some amazing moments. I, for one, would use this camera for stills and video, and I think since it's essentially a pumped up 1DX anyway, spending an extra bit of money to have the 1DX's feature not crippled would be worth it over not saving a ton and not having a still camera at all.

 

[tjc320]

I see what you're saying. I know that while the market is there it might not be a leading sales factor for the new camera.

I currently shoot on a 5DMII. I love it for both stills and videography. The camera's main purpose is stills with video as a secondary ability. I would like to see that flip-flopped where video is the priority because that's what I need. I want cameras that do one thing really well rather then a camera that does two things OK. I think that their Cinema EOS line is meant to do just that but they have to be careful not to lose their market. If you want to do photography and videography then I think the new 5DMIII will be awesome for that. If the Cinema DSLR wants to break into the film world it needs to be geared towards filmmakers and not sports photographers or wedding photographers or anything else that has to do with photography or a hybrid of the two worlds.

Naturally, the new Cinema DSLR will be able to take good pictures. It should, however, be an afterthought.

Even if you extract stills from their Cinema DSLR it will be at 1080 resolution.

 

[Bob Howland]

If this is primarily going to be a video camera, wouldn't it make more sense to use the C300 body instead of the 1DX?

 

[Neeneko]

I really hope this is not the megapixel monster that seems to be in the pipeline. I can see producing a monster for studio and landscape work and a 4K for video people... but I have a bad feeling Canon is going to make them the same camera....

 

[Fandongo]

If this is primarily going to be a video camera, wouldn't it make more sense to use the C300 body instead of the 1DX?

The c300 and all "video" bodies are stupid.
5D2 taught us that.
GH2 body would be perfect if the buttons weren't crap. Add dials, weatherproofing, battery.

The lighter/smaller the bodies go, ohhh the places you'll go.
The camera is merely a storytelling element, and the increasing opportunity to put it in motion pushes the limit.

XLR is useless without a great preamp.

If they continue to ignore movie AF possibilites... They're idiots.
Make it hunt slowly, in a unified direction (not hunting all over the place).
Use AF button to lock on the subject for the duration of recording (doesn't the iPhone have this??)
Or... How certain long L's have the focus recall, set multiple focus pts you can cycle between.
At the very least, they MUST combine face recognition with the digital zoom WHILE recording.
They wont. Idiots.

 

[ssrdd]

for now i go with d800. lets wish at least 4k camera might save canon in coming hdslr fight.

 

[tjc320]

The c300 and all "video" bodies are stupid.
5D2 taught us that.
GH2 body would be perfect if the buttons weren't crap. Add dials, weatherproofing, battery.

The lighter/smaller the bodies go, ohhh the places you'll go.
The camera is merely a storytelling element, and the increasing opportunity to put it in motion pushes the limit.

XLR is useless without a great preamp.

If they continue to ignore movie AF possibilites... They're idiots.
Make it hunt slowly, in a unified direction (not hunting all over the place).
Use AF button to lock on the subject for the duration of recording (doesn't the iPhone have this??)
Or... How certain long L's have the focus recall, set multiple focus pts you can cycle between.
At the very least, they MUST combine face recognition with the digital zoom WHILE recording.
They wont. Idiots.

If that's everything you want canon already makes a camera for you:
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-G10-Camcorder-Internal-Memory/dp/B004HW7DZM/ref=sr_1_18?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1332680573&sr=1-18
Why even bother making new cameras if we can tell great stories with the ones we have?

But seriously... Nobody picked up a 5D body and said "shooting video is going to be a cinch, this has everything I need!" it was more like, "I'll suppose I can make this work" So no, the 5D didn't prove that the smaller the better. Professionals need features not portability as a main camera. As a backup it's nice.

The C300 is only slightly larger then the 5DMII as it is. http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2011/11/25/the-canon-c300-my-thoughts-from-the-euro-launch/

AF can be useful but the first thing anyone is taught when doing video is to put everything in manual. Unless AF can do exactly what I want it to I don't want any part of it.

 

[BRNexus6]

I don't see why people would think this would be in the same price range as the 5D Mark lll. It's probably going to cost the same as a C300. Canon does not want to give quality video to the likes of us poor folk.

 

[Neeneko]

The c300 and all "video" bodies are stupid.
5D2 taught us that.
GH2 body would be perfect if the buttons weren't crap. Add dials, weatherproofing, battery.

Not really. All it showed was there was a market segment that preferred DSLR form factors for the particular type of shooting they did and were poorly served by the standard erganomics. This did not show the other bodies were stupid, just not as universal as people thought.

It also still remains to be seen how much of a long term thing VDSLRs actually are. We are still riding the high of the 5D being such a runaway success, but it is hard to say if this will be a long term thing or if people are going to return to dedicated film bodies once the newness has worn off.

 

[SPG]

Why would I want a cinema camera to have the form factor of a 1D?!

It could be simply because that's the form factor they know how to make and are set up to make easily.
Even small changes would require retooling, which this will obviously have, but there could be some significant savings in the development end if they take 50 years of evolution of the SLR and adapt it to include the new function of a video camera.
The other possibility is that this is also going to be the new mirrorless camera.

 

[gene_can_sing]

I think a 5D form factor would be perfect. not too big (like the 1D) and not too small (like the GH2). I definitely don't want it tall like the 1D. Also, most people who have been "liberated" from the tradition camcorder box style video cameras DON'T want to go back. Shooting with the DSLR form is so NICE for video. Easy to handhold, smaller and more portable. Just makes sense.

The 4K CDSLR needs to come SOON. The 5D3 is a BIG letdown because of the low resolution. Canon is losing a lot of ground and business to the Sony FS-100, more so now with the Metabone EOS adaptor. I'm giving Canon till NAB to see what they have, or else I might also have to go the FS-100 route like so many others are. I just can't wait any longer for a decent video solution from Canon. They just keep letting down the video people time and time again.

 

[Neeneko]

They just keep letting down the video people time and time again.

Letting down?
I think Canon has made it rather clear that the video crowd is so important to them that they will not even produce a camera anymore without building it to meet their uses. Videoagraphers are the current chosen people of Canon's marketing department.

And why in the world do you need a budget 4K camera in the first place? The vast majority of video shooters will never be displaying their material in a medium that can actually show 4K. Even a lot of movie theaters have not converted to it. Is this just another version of the megapixel fetish? I can see some people needing that resolution, like people who actually need a MF digial back and such, they are not doing budget range work.

 

[gene_can_sing]

Neenko. I work in Television and we have a very large green screen at our studio, so a 4K camera would be nice. What I really want it TRUE 1080p, unlike what Canon is currently offering the new 5D3 which is still up-res'd 720, so the image is soft.

And YES, Canon is continually letting down the video people. With all their Digic 4 releases, they never fixed the moire / aliasing problem that started with the 5D2. The subsequent 7D, T2i, 60D and T3i all had the same un-fixed video issues.

Then canon released the C-300. At $16,000, it's truly overprice especially considering it does not have 10 bit compression nor 1080p 60fps. Canon does not have a mid-range video solution (between $3K to $6K) that is satisfactory.

The 5D3 comes out, and the video is STILL up-res'd 700 lines which results in the same soft image.

What most video people wanted in the 5D3 was just 3 things 1) no Moire 2) no aliasing 3) True 1080p HD. Canon did 2 out of the 3, but still didn't do the 3rd major request of TRUE 1000 line HD.

For the Stills crowd, the 5D3 is great. For the video people, Canon is still playing games and people are getting really tire of waiting. That's why they need to release the 4K C-DSLR soon. For me, 4K isn't super important. I just want good 2K resolution, which Canon does not currently offer except in the $16,000 C-300.

 

[bluegreenturtle]

They just keep letting down the video people time and time again.

Letting down?
I think Canon has made it rather clear that the video crowd is so important to them that they will not even produce a camera anymore without building it to meet their uses. Videoagraphers are the current chosen people of Canon's marketing department.

And why in the world do you need a budget 4K camera in the first place? The vast majority of video shooters will never be displaying their material in a medium that can actually show 4K. Even a lot of movie theaters have not converted to it. Is this just another version of the megapixel fetish? I can see some people needing that resolution, like people who actually need a MF digial back and such, they are not doing budget range work.

acquisition format is not delivery format.

 

[Neeneko]

Neenko. I work in Television and we have a very large green screen at our studio, so a 4K camera would be nice. What I really want it TRUE 1080p, unlike what Canon is currently offering the new 5D3 which is still up-res'd 720, so the image is soft.

Ok, I can see for cropping down from a large image, though generally if you are going the 'shoot large, crop later' solution too often it indicates camera placement or lenses should probably be different.

And YES, Canon is continually letting down the video people. With all their Digic 4 releases, they never fixed the moire / aliasing problem that started with the 5D2. The subsequent 7D, T2i, 60D and T3i all had the same un-fixed video issues.

Most do not seem to consider this an issue, if it is then one might need to upgrade to a better camera. Not putting the best stuff into budget solutions is NOT the same as 'letting down video people'. I would love a MF view camera for the price of a mid range Canon DSLR, but I do not consider Canon failing to produce such a low cost model to be 'failing photographers'.

Then canon released the C-300. At $16,000, it's truly overprice especially considering it does not have 10 bit compression nor 1080p 60fps. Canon does not have a mid-range video solution (between $3K to $6K) that is satisfactory.

Satisfactory is relative. Canon has a huge range of video offerings, far wider then their photography ones. Cheaper models are not as good, more expensive ones are better. If a compeditor produces a model that has higher quality at a low price point then go with them, but do not expect Canon to magically pull down the prices of all their higher end units.

The 5D3 comes out, and the video is STILL up-res'd 700 lines which results in the same soft image.

So? It is a budget 'pro' hybrid camera. If you want something better then get a dedicated video camera designed for professional use, and be happy that Canon has been putting in so much work to produce something as high quality for such a low price point as they have, which has worked very well for many professionals already.

For the Stills crowd, the 5D3 is great. For the video people, Canon is still playing games and people are getting really tire of waiting. That's why they need to release the 4K C-DSLR soon. For me, 4K isn't super important. I just want good 2K resolution, which Canon does not currently offer except in the $16,000 C-300.

Not really. Segments of the stills crowd are happy with it, but other segments are pretty disappointed and point out that the camera was apparently designed with the video crown in mind. Canon will not even consider making dedicated still cameras anymore.