Canon Disappointment

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Hi,
Although I sympathies your situation, but if you want a truth answer (truth always hurts), it's probably your fault if you don't include a suitable amount of desiccant inside the seal bag. When you brought a new electronics product, you always saw 1 or 2 small bags of desiccant inside the box... it's there for a reason.

By the way, Weather sealed is not condensation proof and I don't think there is any ILC that is condensation proof.

Have a nice day.
 
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Magnardo said:
Canon if you have a problem with condensation, and you want people to continue to buy your products, please make better cameras. The Technology exists to do so and it's not expensive, it just takes effort. Like having a decent camera on a phone, which everyone overlooked until it became a trend.

What you're demanding is physically impossible. Condensation is what occurs when water that has evaporated in to the atmosphere and now exists in the environment as a gas, re-condenses into liquid form, usually by coming in to contact with a surface that is colder than the surrounding air.

The only way to make the interior of anything condensation proof is make it air tight. But a camera built for typical use in the real world can never be air tight.

You change lenses, you've just flooded the body with air - air that contains moisture in the form of evaporated water

You open the battery compartment, you've just introduced water-laden air

You open the memory card compartment, you've just introduced water-laden air

You expose the USB port, you're allowing the intrusion of water-laden air

There's nothing defective or substandard about the camera build.
 
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gbchriste said:
Magnardo said:
Canon if you have a problem with condensation, and you want people to continue to buy your products, please make better cameras. The Technology exists to do so and it's not expensive, it just takes effort. Like having a decent camera on a phone, which everyone overlooked until it became a trend.
What you're demanding is physically impossible.

No, it's not. Canon simply needs to hermetically seal all the openings in bodies and lenses, incorporate a vacuum pump into the body, and redesign the entire lineup to withstand a vacuum. Or maybe the technology exists to alter the laws of thermodynamics.

Either way, it's not expensive, it just takes effort. ::)
 
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There are some of those little white packs in the camera bag. They have always been there.

So,..by that rational,...I can buy a $1500 camera every day and then, one day past the one year warranty, I would have to pay a ton of money to fix all of them and there is nothing anybody can do about it, because Condensation is an evil superhero.

They make Sony Z3 phones and other devices where stuff is sealed,..Sealing stuff is fairly cheap if you want to do it. Z3 costs as much as the I phone and all the rest of them phones.

Like I said I have 8 different cameras in identical situations in the house.
7 of them work.
Every other electronic equipment in the house works.

Does the Condensation play favorites and was only targeting the poor 7D cause it was black?
I think not.

Stop the childish commentaries.
Thank you.
 
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Magnardo said:
There are some of those little white packs in the camera bag. They have always been there.

So,..by that rational,...I can buy a $1500 camera every day and then, one day past the one year warranty, I would have to pay a ton of money to fix all of them and there is nothing anybody can do about it, because Condensation is an evil superhero.

They make Sony Z3 phones and other devices where stuff is sealed,..Sealing stuff is fairly cheap if you want to do it. Z3 costs as much as the I phone and all the rest of them phones.

Like I said I have 8 different cameras in identical situations in the house.
7 of them work.
Every other electronic equipment in the house works.

Does the Condensation play favorites and was only targeting the poor 7D cause it was black?
I think not.

Stop the childish commentaries.
Thank you.

You sound a little petulent... and I have two little girls who can't be reasoned with when they decide to go nuts. It is an unfortunate situation... I would be upset too... zz vf,.l;[poliu re321q
 
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Magnardo said:
Stop the childish commentaries.

You mean like the one with which you ended your opening post of this thread? ::)


Magnardo said:
There are some of those little white packs in the camera bag. They have always been there.

How often do you replace them? The little packets can saturate in days. I use desiccant cartridges with indicator dye so I know when to replace/regenerate.


Magnardo said:
Does the Condensation play favorites and was only targeting the poor 7D cause it was black?
I think not.

Did you not state the 7D went to Hawaii? Right now in Hawaii (at 6 AM) the relative humidity is 100% and the forecast temp today is 81 °F. If your camera is outside it will be filled with warm, humid air...when you bring it inside an air conditioned environment (hotel, car), that moisture in the air inside your camera will condense. Physics 101.

Another point about moisture inside electronics - if it happens and a tiny amount of corrosion starts, it's like a time bomb with an unknown duration. If Canon accurately diagnosed the problem and it occurred while the 7D was being stored with other gear, that gear may be 'ticking' away on a countdown.
 
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Magnardo said:
There are some of those little white packs in the camera bag. They have always been there.

Do you know they don't last forever because they can't simply make water disappear magically? Do you know they need to be regenerated or changed after a while? Do you know they work only against the chemicals they are designed to react with, and not everything?

You should stop being childish. You didn't store the camera as the manual tells. You didn't test the camera with know charged batteries. You bought it but didn't use it before the warranty expired. Sure, it could have been a faulty camera, it happens, with any brands, that's why usually a warranty is mandatory - in EU, it's two years. But if you don't use it and the warranty expires, it's your fault. The service center can only follow the rules.
 
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Any sympathy people llike me had for you is quickly disapting... so maybe you throttle back on the petulence.

If you purchased the 7d with a credit card within 2 years... your credit card may double the manufacturer warranty.

Stop blaming Canon... because this could have happened with any manufacturer.
 
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LDS said:
...a warranty is mandatory - in EU, it's two years.

In the US, the manufacturer gets to determine the warranty coverage, if any. I think it's part of the "liberty" thing… You know, the American way – life, liberty, and the pursuit of getting others to pay for our mistakes. ;)
 
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See,..The funny thing is neuroanatomist is an extremely active busy little bee and full of adversary comments, without anything positive or of real value to say, just looking for faults in something I might have done or said,...Extremely interesting for someone that does not really care. He pretends that he did not read that the camera stopped working before going to Hawaii. Anyways,... Hope your efforts get compensated accordingly. I have described your type of employee above.

The second funny thing is,...Everyone talks about Condensation like it's the Michael Jackson of reasons for why a circuit board goes bad. That was the rabbit hole we all got sucked into. And I was guilty of that myself.

Fact is, only Canon said it was Condensation initially.
Is it the most probable cause?!
Probably not.

That is the "Everybody weaves" of law enforcement.
When I lived in Ohio, prior to 9/11, police had to have a probable cause to stop a motorist when driving.
They always had it readily available,...."Everybody weaves!"
Hard to prove otherwise.

See, when the consumer has a problem, the manufacturer (And they all do the same - not just Canon, and after Jobs died Apple is doing same thing) instead of trying to find the cause of something and assess the situation objectively they always assume the consumer is to blame.

So even if something has a 2% chance of happening, and some other thing has a 5% of happening, and another thing has a 13% of happening,...they first go through only the list of things that makes them not assume responsibility. Going for the unlikely 20% that could place the fault with the consumer, instead the obvious 80%.

So then, the consumer has to prove their innocence , for the 20%, completely beyond reasonable doubt, and if they are able to do so, only then the manufacturer makes good and assumes responsibility.

Every once in a while the manufacturer comes up with a magic word like Condensation and then, Everybody weaves.

First they said that cameras's circuit boards , if submerged underwater, stop working.
I said Please check for water damage, I guarantee there is none.
That's the 2% they started with.

But then, it came the magic cloud,...Condensation.
The unprovable, all encompassing, mysterious cause from out of space.

Fact is that most likely cause for which my camera stopped working is not Condensation but Bad Circuitry, Bad Wiring etc. But that would mean that it's not my fault,..so let's concentrate on Condensation.

Fact is, again,.... I have 7 working cameras in the house.
Likely Commonsense Conclusion? Condensation not bad.

Is this Condensation a common problem?
Most likely not,...otherwise most cameras would break right away and nobody would buy them.

Ps. The guy with two girls,..You know what I did after I made my baby girl?! I made a boy. He is less petulant.

The idea is,.. I already paid the money. Canon made their $1500 profit for their garbage 7D.
This was mainly a conversation about fair and assuming responsibility, more then anything.
Thank you.
 
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Take a look neuroanatomist has over 15000 posts,...Hmmm,...Also take a look at the nearest guy that has anything to say. Not a contest. I would suggest getting a new identity and starting fresh with the negative comments. This identity of yours is compromised.

So easy to spot dudes with ulterior motives.
 
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Neuroanatomist 15768 comments,... Probably most of them negative harassments,....busy little bee,..I would suggest you refresh your identity and reinvent yourself. This one is compromised. We all know what you are here for: Life , liberty and the pursuit of financial rewards through negative observations.

Take a look at the next commentator,..Nobody comes close.
 
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Magnardo said:
I did not know condensation was such a problem.
<snip>

Canon if you have a problem with condensation, and you want people to continue to buy your products, please make better cameras. The Technology exists to do so and it's not expensive, it just takes effort. Like having a decent camera on a phone, which everyone overlooked until it became a trend.

Condensation is a HUGE problem, and it is with everyone, not just Canon. The basic problem is that you can not have a sealed system and interchange lenses, as every time you swap a lens, you break the seal. It also means that you can not have lenses that extend when they zoom or focus, as that means air pumping in and out of the system..

You could cover the circuit boards with corrosion resistant coatings ( they already do) and coat the connectors between boards with gold (corrosion resistant, and also already done), but it still happens. You could encase everything in some form of epoxy, but then you loose any chance of servicing.... And then we have the mechanicals like shutters and mirrors that can not be protected that way.

pall this helps, but does not solve the problem. For that, you need either constant heat, or an unbroken seal

This is a Canon forum, so we just hear about this problem on Canon cameras, but the people on the Nikon forums and the 4/3 forums are suffering too.
 
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It's fine.
Never heard of it before, so it's not as frequent as it probably seems.
Everyone hears loudly of the bad cases.
Probably like with airplanes going down,... It looks bad, even though statistically they claim it is very safe.
It just sucks to be in a downed 7D airplane.

Hope the 5D does not really crap on me.
I really like it.
5D Mark III with the 85 f 1.2 is , sometimes, better then sex.
My birthdate is 5th of March.
Match made in heaven.

I was using the XT1 recently and I really liked it, but when I picked up the 5D again, it felt retroactively, like I was underwater the whole time and could not breathe.
XT1 is a really good looking slow witted girl.
A pleasure to play with, but requires hard work, and, after a while, it becomes old.

5D?
The whole package.

Thank you for your help.
I've learned things.
 
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To Magnardo,

I wasn't going to weigh in until you made that awful statement about your children in general and your daughter in particular. Girls don't act differently from boys because they are girls. So please get that sexist thinking out of your head. And don't tell me you were just trying to be funny because it just isn't. Children in one family may act differently from one another because they are different people with different personalities and different brains and different makeups. Children also learn what they live so think about the type of behavior you are modeling for them.

As I understand the facts as you presented them, you discovered a problem with your camera outside it's warranty period. You also stated that you stored your camera in a manner that in itself could've caused a problem. So in my mind, Canon was pretty generous at giving you a substantial reduction in repair fees, especially if you are not a member of CPS.

I get that it must've been upsetting to get to Hawaii and find out your camera was not functioning. But you admit you didn't thoroughly test things before you left the house. And even if you had, and everything worked, things sometime break at the most inopportune moments. Stuff happens – – own it, and take responsibility.You say you have seven other cameras in your house. Either call your credit card company and see if you are covered under an extended warranty, decide to pay for the repair bill yourself, or go use one of your other cameras. Those are your options – – and more ranting and venting won't change that. It's time to go to resignation on this.
 
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Just when I'm about ready to hang up Canon Rumors Forum and find something more constructive to do, a thread like this pops up and I'm hooked again. So entertaining.

Magnardo's claims that people here get paid by Canon, started me wondering though: First, how can I get a job like that?; and second, maybe Magnardo is actually getting paid by Canon Rumors Guy to boost the site. Maybe he doesn't even exist and Craig is laughing all the way to the bank?

Even if that's the case, though, it's worth it for the entertainment value. Well played, Canon Rumors Guy! Well played!
 
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unfocused said:
Just when I'm about ready to hang up Canon Rumors Forum and find something more constructive to do, a thread like this pops up and I'm hooked again. So entertaining.

Magnardo's claims that people here get paid by Canon, started me wondering though: First, how can I get a job like that?; and second, maybe Magnardo is actually getting paid by Canon Rumors Guy to boost the site. Maybe he doesn't even exist and Craig is laughing all the way to the bank?

Even if that's the case, though, it's worth it for the entertainment value. Well played, Canon Rumors Guy! Well played!

So by that same claim, Nikon or Sony could be paying people to just get on here and post complaints without asking for real advice. Make the canon folks think about changing vendors. ;)
 
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Vivid,..boys have a different make up then girls.
Everything about the way they operate is different.
Even the way that their brains operate is different.
They start looking at things from a different vantage point.
Not better or worse, but different.
No point in denying that.

People worried constantly about racism are completely racist themselves.
People worried constantly about sexism are completely sexist themselves.

I made no statement about my kids.
The other guy did.
The boy is three months but compared to the girl when she was 3 months, he makes less noise, therefore he is less petulant. I never said she was a problem. She was never a problem, but he is less. More manly.

My daughter is genius, not yet 2 years old, she knows many countries on the globe, she puts on the board the initial letter to about 55 different words or if you put the letter she says the words. Knows most animals by name. Can draw. She also knows it is not a good idea to buy a Canon 7D because some of them they are completely crap. etc.

But at the same time, I have a boy, and he is less petulant.

And the guy with two girls,... has two girls that are more petulant by his own admission.

Aj foto film a gem,...
I never made any " comments abuse " toward anyone even though I might be a "consumer ignores".

Again the camera has been paid for twice.
And Yes,..out of warranty means out of warranty.

Still, call me stubborn, but a $1500 camera with 500 shutter actuations should work fine.

Craigslist will take care gradually of all my Canon stuff that breaks.

And BH or Adorama (or any others) will not have me on record purchasing anymore Canon stuff.
I am really afraid of that Big Bad Condensation.
Canon seems to have a weakness for it.

Conclusion?!
Simple.
If out of warranty is out of warranty, for a slightly used camera that carries a great promise, I will take my talented investments elsewhere.

Nobody is wrong,
We are both right,
Just a matter of making choices.

Maybe, like Le Bron, I'll be back in Canonland, but for now, Nikonami sounds great.
 
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