Canon Disappointment

[Magnardo]

Hi everyone,..
I need some opinions.

When Canon came up with the 5D Mark III, I made the switch from Nikon to Canon and bought a bunch of Canon gear.
Canon 5d MArk III, CAnon 7D, Canon 580 Ex flash, Canon 430ex Flash, Canon 85 1.2, Canon 135 F2, Canon 100 2.8, Canon 40 2.8, Canon 35 f 1.2, Canon 17-55 F2.8IS.

The Canon 7D was bought in March 2013.
Was mainly intended for back up.
I did not use it much. Maybe less then 500 shutter actuations.
Mainly it sat in weather sealed bag.
In November 2014 we went to Hawaii for vacation and I decided to bring the 7D with the 17-55 for the vacation photos.
When we got there the camera had developed a depression and would not turn on.
I checked it at home , before departure, and only thought the batteries were dead and that was the reason.
Had two batteries, fully charged them both, none would turn the camera on.
I called Canon and they told me to send it in.

They told me that the circuit board is bad and needs to be replaced for $569.
I complained that the camera has barely been used , never dropped, and mainly kept in a sealed bag.
Only left the house twice.
They could check the shutter actuations which should prove that.
The only way this camera could break is if there was something faulty to begin with, and that, in turn, makes it their responsibility.
They said that they checked with their repair people and told me that the camera's circuit board can also stop functioning, if submerged under water.
I told them that it is very easy for them to check if there is water damage and I will guarantee there is none.
That's the first thing they do at an Apple store if you return an Apple phone and it takes them 5 minutes.
I am sure Canon has the same technology.

Then the operator got back on the line and said they will take the $219 off for labor from the repair price but that's the best they can do. Also claimed that cameras break due to condensation. Ended up paying for it because otherwise it would be a paperweight.

Now,.. A camera sold for $1500 by Canon.
A camera that is professional weather sealed.
A camera that was barely used. Around 500 shutter actuations.
A camera that was stored in a professional weather sealed Tamarac bag.
How could it break?


You have to pay for repair costs of $350 reduced as a courtesy from $569.
....For a camera that right now gets sold by BH for $750.
How is that fair?

Forget about the lost memories that were lost by trusting on Canon reliability and the quality of their products.

HOW CAN ANYONE BUY OR RECOMMEND CANON PRODUCTS TO ANYONE THEY DO NOT HATE?

 

[Marsu42]

In November 2014 we went to Hawaii for vacation and I decided to bring the 7D with the 17-55 for the vacation photos. [...] A camera that is professional weather sealed.

Bad news, buddy: Your camera is not weather sealed at all, because a camera consists of a body and a lens - and the latter isn't, leaving you with a big, gaping hole on the front. And even "if", it wouldn't be "professional", that's 1d or 7d2 level.

Then the operator got back on the line and said they will take the $219 off for labor from the repair price but that's the best they can do. Also claimed that cameras break due to condensation. Ended up paying for it because otherwise it would be a paperweight.

That's very nice of them, usually they don't give away money like that. Any water damage is on you, full stop. And it's probability, you can be lucky for a long time, and it can hit you on the first shot.

HOW CAN ANYONE BUY OR RECOMMEND CANON PRODUCTS TO ANYONE THEY DO NOT HATE?

Absolutely: Any product that matches the purpose you intend to use it for. In your case, you'd better go Pentax as a backup as those have good sealing for a moderate price, or an actually water*proof* camera.

Note that I'm not a Canon fanboi, I find they're really lacking in sealing - for example the level of sealing on expensive non-L lenses and bodies of a $2000+ camera like the 6d is a joke. But then again, it's no secret Canon doesn't have good "value" below their pro-line products - fortunately, the market offers alternatives.

 

[Magnardo]

There is no water damage.
You did not read.

I did not use that camera.
500 shutter actuations is basically a fart by camera standards.

They said that water can damage the circuit board and I told them that no water ever came close to that camera.
They can easily check for that with their water damage detector.

That camera for it's entire life, sat mostly in a bag, unused.
It was taken out of the house twice and left unused in the bag.

I just said that both were weather sealed just to highlight my point.
Both manufacturers claim that about their products.

They said condensation,...can damage it.
In the end it was a crap product that did not work.

 

[Magnardo]

Also the 7D spent it's life being the roommate of the 5d Mark III inside my house.
Although the 5d was the more active of the two,... it works fine.
Both cameras have similar weather sealing.

The claim for Condensation is bull.
I do not even fully understand what condensation is,... but if there was some, it should affect both cameras.
I own Fujifilm and Canon now.
I have owned Nikon before.

Never, ever have I had any camera break due to Condensation or ever heard of anybody that claimed that.

 

[Marsu42]

Both cameras have similar weather sealing.

They do? I wouldn't know, I never have screwed open my cameras to have a look.

The claim for Condensation is bull. I do not even fully understand what condensation is

Please do consider these two statements in conjunction and what sense the first one makes in light of the second.

Alas, I very much understand you being upset with something breaking just like that that you might have considered bullet-proof. But then again, I'm not Canon cps or a Canon dealer trying to defend a product.

Never, ever have I had any camera break due to Condensation or ever heard of anybody that claimed that.

You have now, and Google is your friend (if you're not a civil rights activist). Condensation and a camera killer is a big issue when taking a camera from relative cold to relative warmth, esp. if the warm environment is damp.

The problem is that the water condensates *inside* the camera and doesn't need to make it through the seals in liquid state. And the corrosion damage can kill your camera weeks or months after the fact. Yes, that's physics for you (i.e. a huge repair bill) :-o

 

[agierke]

Long periods of inactivity can also be electronic killers. using electronics as little as once a month can ward off the type of failure you experienced. Did you put silica gel packs in the camera bag while storing the 7d? If you didn't that's where you went wrong.

sry you had to learn this the hard way. I actually think canons response was pretty generous and sympathetic. I wonder what nik ons repair response would have been?

I have watched various cameras and lenses deteriorate considerably fast due to inactivity and improper storage. Time and inactivity is a powerful destructive force. Do some googling, educate yourself on the risks, be better prepared in the future.

 

[sunnyVan]

If you don't plan on using the camera for a long time you should remove the battery and keep it moisture free by inserting descicant bags. If there's moisture to begin with and you put it in a sealed bag and the battery is not removed then bad things will certainly happen.

 

[IgotGASbadDude]

Hey, I'm in the same situation only at a VERY larger scale.

I purchased a Dodge Ram 1500 in April 2011. Brand new 2011 model. It currently has exactly 6,000 miles on it.

If that thing is factory defective I'm going to be financially screwed. But I won't blame Dodge even if the problem is their fault.

The warranty time has expired and I can only blame myself for letting it sit these four years. I should have ignored the HORRIBLE gas mileage it gets and put some miles on it.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

The liquid water could be prevented from entering the camera lens a sealed weather is connected.
But the water in a gaseous state (humidity) enters into any camera.

Suppose that one day you switched lenses in an environment with high humidity, salinity, corrosive gases, etc., and then put the camera for 10 months. This air "contaminated" would have been confined inside the camera, eroding the circuits.

Watch this video where 7D is subjected to cruel tests and survived.

https://youtu.be/RCT-YMgjm9k

 

[East Wind Photography]

Long periods of inactivity can also be electronic killers. using electronics as little as once a month can ward off the type of failure you experienced. Did you put silica gel packs in the camera bag while storing the 7d? If you didn't that's where you went wrong.

sry you had to learn this the hard way. I actually think canons response was pretty generous and sympathetic. I wonder what nik ons repair response would have been?

I have watched various cameras and lenses deteriorate considerably fast due to inactivity and improper storage. Time and inactivity is a powerful destructive force. Do some googling, educate yourself on the risks, be better prepared in the future.

Generally speaking if you cant store with silica gel, it's best to not store them in a camera bag. Particularly one that's sealed. It's also best not to store them with the lens on it. You are trapping any moisture and humidity absorbed by the bag or in the camera. Other things can give off gases as well. Things such as alkaline or lithium ion batteries can emit gases just sitting and slowly draining over time. If those are trapped in a sealed bag everything gets exposed.

Weather sealed does not mean water or gas sealed.

Either way he ended up with a good deal on the repair and was still cheaper than buying a replacement camera.

 

[East Wind Photography]

Hi everyone,..
I need some opinions.

When Canon came up with the 5D Mark III, I made the switch from Nikon to Canon and bought a bunch of Canon gear.
Canon 5d MArk III, CAnon 7D, Canon 580 Ex flash, Canon 430ex Flash, Canon 85 1.2, Canon 135 F2, Canon 100 2.8, Canon 40 2.8, Canon 35 f 1.2, Canon 17-55 F2.8IS.

The Canon 7D was bought in March 2013.
Was mainly intended for back up.
I did not use it much. Maybe less then 500 shutter actuations.
Mainly it sat in weather sealed bag.
In November 2014 we went to Hawaii for vacation and I decided to bring the 7D with the 17-55 for the vacation photos.
When we got there the camera had developed a depression and would not turn on.
I checked it at home , before departure, and only thought the batteries were dead and that was the reason.
Had two batteries, fully charged them both, none would turn the camera on.
I called Canon and they told me to send it in.

They told me that the circuit board is bad and needs to be replaced for $569.
I complained that the camera has barely been used , never dropped, and mainly kept in a sealed bag.
Only left the house twice.
They could check the shutter actuations which should prove that.
The only way this camera could break is if there was something faulty to begin with, and that, in turn, makes it their responsibility.
They said that they checked with their repair people and told me that the camera's circuit board can also stop functioning, if submerged under water.
I told them that it is very easy for them to check if there is water damage and I will guarantee there is none.
That's the first thing they do at an Apple store if you return an Apple phone and it takes them 5 minutes.
I am sure Canon has the same technology.

Then the operator got back on the line and said they will take the $219 off for labor from the repair price but that's the best they can do. Also claimed that cameras break due to condensation. Ended up paying for it because otherwise it would be a paperweight.

Now,.. A camera sold for $1500 by Canon.
A camera that is professional weather sealed.
A camera that was barely used. Around 500 shutter actuations.
A camera that was stored in a professional weather sealed Tamarac bag.
How could it break?


You have to pay for repair costs of $350 reduced as a courtesy from $569.
....For a camera that right now gets sold by BH for $750.
How is that fair?

Forget about the lost memories that were lost by trusting on Canon reliability and the quality of their products.

HOW CAN ANYONE BUY OR RECOMMEND CANON PRODUCTS TO ANYONE THEY DO NOT HATE?

If the 7d was a backup to your 5diii how is that you have lost memories by trusting on canon reliability? Your 5diii should have reasonably filled that vacancy.

 

[unfocused]

There is only one thing I would add to the comments here: Just because the 5DIII has not failed yet, that doesn't mean it won't.

The OP makes a point of saying the two were stored in identical conditions and one failed and one didn't. But, what we don't know is if the 5DIII also has condensation inside and it's either not in an area that will cause failure or has not deteriorated to the point yet of causing failure.

Learn from your mistake and change your storage method for all your equipment.

 

[LDS]

The OP makes a point of saying the two were stored in identical conditions and one failed and one didn't.

Not identical. One was used and thereby the bag opened and the camera removed from the bag. It is true that if you want to preserver something in anything "sealed", you have to ensure that 1) whatever "environment" you start with is "clean" 2) nothing inside the sealing can contaminate the environment later, or there are facilities to remove the contaminant(s). Otherwise the sealing is actually dangerous because it doesn't let airflow remove contaminants.
Camera and lenses are not sold in "weather sealed" boxes because beside being more expensive, it would need a really complex packaging in a "clean environment" to ensure the sealing doesn't act against the camera instead of preserving it, and with very little advantages unless the boxes are kept in an harsh environment.
The camera manual, for long conservation, suggests a cool, dry place with sufficient airflow (not a weather sealed box), and to activate the camera periodically. Also, suggests a check before using it, especially for something important.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The camera manual, for long conservation, suggests a cool, dry place with sufficient airflow (not a weather sealed box)

I do store my gear in waterproof (Pelican Storm) cases, with desiccant cartridges. But I use my gear - the cases don't stay unopened for more than a few days.

...suggests a check before using it, especially for something important.

+1 Reading the OP, it sounds like it failed to turn on before the trip, he assumed it was dead batteries and then packed the kit, charged them at the destination and the camera still wouldn't turn on. If so, he has no one but himself to blame.

 

[martti]

Looks like you've been sold a bad camera.
If you had been using it, you would have noticed the problem before the warranty expired.
That's basically what warranties are for.
You had not so you did not and the warranty expired.
Sorry for your holiday pictures but you had a deal with Canon and you screwed it up.

In similar cases, I have been able to twist the arm if the question was of two weeks but longer than that, no way.

 

[Dylan777]

I understand OP frustration.

On the other side we all MUST understand how a business needs to be operated, especially a product is no longer in warranty window.

 

[unfocused]

The OP makes a point of saying the two were stored in identical conditions and one failed and one didn't.

Not identical. One was used and thereby the bag opened and the camera removed from the bag. ...

Yes. True. My point was in response to this statement: I do not even fully understand what condensation is,... but if there was some, it should affect both cameras.

I was just trying to make the simple point that just because the 5DIII did not fail (yet), he isn't home free. If the conditions were sufficient to cause the 7D to fail due to condensation, then I'd be making sure that I changed where and how I stored all my equipment, instead of just assuming that one was defective – it might just be the canary in the mine.

 

[TeT]

Strike it up to bad luck ...

Pretty cool that Canon ate part of the labor for you. I am surprised that you got that out of them.

 

[Magnardo]

Really,...it is not cool.
Because if that part really costs $350, then Canon makes no money on their cameras.
Probably the production price of a Canon 7D does not exceed $500.

I see that everyone here thinks Canon is great, no matter what.
Fact is, I have a few cameras,...all stored in identical conditions, none of them broke because of condensation.
Not the Nikon F5, Not the Nikon Fm3A, Not the NIKONOS V, Not The Fujifilm XT1, Not the Fujifilm 100T, Not The Canon Rebel XTi.
I guess condensation is not that bad inside my house.

Another thing is,.... When a camera is weather sealed,...You should be able to shoot with it in a rainforest and it should work fine because that is why you pay a ton of money for it.

It is very nice to see how someone has disinterested opinions about something that did not really happen to them.
If I would be mean,..I would say,...I hope this will happen to you soon, so I can return the liquid advice you gave me.
It is very important to be in someone else's shoes to understand their vantage point.
But I will not wish this on any of you because it is awful.

It is nothing funny when you pay $1500 for a professional weather sealed camera and 17 months later is unusable.
Then you pay another $350 to fix it and , as such, you end up paying $1850 for a camera that sell right now for $750.

When I will need to buy another camera, I will surely consider Canon at the top of my list.
I need a lot of cameras for a game of DODGECANON.
This game will consist in a random person throwing Canon cameras at another dude,...and the Dude is supposed to dodge them all.

Now, We live in a time where all major firms, hire professional writers with fake user names, to address negative reviews and reviewers in a very efficient manner.

Cannon Rumors seems like the perfect place to meet these guys.

I understood from all these opinions that it was my fault,.... and I already do apologize to myself,.....
...,for buying Canon.

Thank you for your time.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Now, We live in a time where all major firms, hire professional writers with fake user names, to address negative reviews and reviewers in a very efficient manner.

Cannon Rumors seems like the perfect place to meet these guys.

Hey? I want my payment for defending Canon ...