Canon Disappointment

[Magnardo]

Unfocused please concentrate, please focus.
It is not that hard to make some sense.

It is not a question if Canon has people policing Canon rumors,.. It is a question of who they are.
So nice of you to jump to the defense of your coworker.
Strategical Redirect,...I was waiting for it, therefore it does not surprise me.
If you remember,.....I have identified and mentioned both of you by name,.... in an earlier post.

Not hard to spot the whale in the bath tub.
Kinda' obvious.
Thanks for putting lipstick on this pig.

Not just Canon has these guys trying to influence public opinion,..everyone has them.
Because social interaction has been identified by advertisers and marketing people as the most efficient and quantifiable way of advertising.
What is a blog called Canon Rumors?..... but a place where Canon users come to discuss their issues.

Surely Canon keeps an eye on it.
They are not dumb,..they came up with Condensation.

 

[Magnardo]

Let me make it easy for you,...

"Also about professional trolls.
It is the biggest new thing in advertising.
There are a lot of companies with a comprehensive staff of, somewhat failed writers, operating many fake virtual identities that get hired to bail out bad products, be internet watch dogs, assassinate competitor's products or save celebrities from the public internet backlash when they do stupid things.
This is a multimillion dollar industry.

They are always easy to spot as they have funky uninspired and somewhat obvious names, they are extremely and unjustifiably active blog contributors, for someone that claims disinterest, and for the most part they do not have anything creative or intelligent to say, some of them personally attack the consumer who has a problem with the product they are paid to protect, and they never tackle the issue, others praise the manufacturer and talk about their great experiences with them, others recite from the latest commercial campaigns great stories of convenient and unverifiable greatness. "

 

[Magnardo]

From same earlier post,..." If you take "neuroanatomist" out who was not very neuro,..and also "unfocused" who clearly was not focused,...I thank everyone for your opinions.

It helped.

 

[Magnardo]

ME:"...they are extremely and unjustifiably active blog contributors, for someone that claims disinterest."

You: "Just when I'm about ready to hang up Canon Rumors Forum and find something more constructive to do, a thread like this pops up and I'm hooked again."

 

[Don Haines]

Magnardo,

You had bad luck, but learn from it....

Focus on how the cameras are stored, focus on proper testing before taking them on a trip...... What happened to you can happen to anyone, with any brand or model of camera.... If you throw all your canon gear into the garbage and get Nikon or Sony, you don't want to go through this again....

It sucks to have a camera die. I had one die on a two week canoe trip the day after the warranty expired and shot the rest of the trip with a waterproof P/S camera (always carry a backup ). Unfortunately, you can not make electro-mechanical devices portable, low cost, and robust. The point here being that if it is an important shoot, always carry a backup. Wedding photographers are full of stories about how their A body died and the B body saved thier ass....

Long term sealed storage containers are a bad idea. You have learned the hard way, but hopefully you have learned and will keep your future gear from suffering the same fate.

Pre testing before an important use is another lesson to be learned, particularly if the device has not been used for a long time. Hopefully you will save yourself from that one in the future....

 

[Loswr]

He pretends that he did not read that the camera stopped working before going to Hawaii.

What you stated was that the camera did not turn on before your trip, and you assumed it was just a discharged battery. Then you took the camera to Hawaii. So perhaps it was a completely dead battery (which can happen if Li-ion batteries are left unused in a device like the 7D or any other Canon body with a transmissive LCD, which continually draws power from them even when 'off', so that the cells completely discharge), and the condensation occured in Hawaii.

Hope your efforts get compensated accordingly. I have described your type of employee above.

Your perseveration on this on this topic has become inane. Amusing, but inane.

This was mainly a conversation about fair and assuming responsibility, more then anything.

Ahhh, I see. Tell us, where exactly do you assume responsibility for your own actions? For example:

Forget about the lost memories that were lost by trusting on Canon reliability and the quality of their products.

So let's see...you failed to verify that you had a functional camera before leaving on your trip, but that's Canon's fault. So it seems what you really mean is you want someone else to take responsiblity for your mistakes, including improper storage of your camera.

Whatever, guy. You started this thread with a petulant rant, blaming someone else for your own foolishness. In fact, your foolishness is compounded because unlike many, you are fortunate enough actually have another (better!) dSLR you could have brought instead, had you actually bothered to test the 7D properly.

Regardless, the terms of the warranty are clear. Your 7D's warranty had expired, and the camera failed. Canon USA was generous enough to discount the cost of the repair, even though they were under no obligation to do so. Any gratitude for that? Nope, ranting that they charged you at all. You claim you've already paid for it, so it's not even clear why you're posting this? Looking for opinions, as you claim? Perhaps...but when those opinions are not universally supportive, you become hostile (or rather, more hostile since you were hostile at the outset).

At any rate, there's no point in continuing with this line of discussion. Good luck with your problems, including those related to your camera.

 

[Marsu42]

So in my mind, Canon was pretty generous at giving you a substantial reduction in repair fees, especially if you are not a member of CPS.

Without entering into any specific discussion I'd like to stress this fact, I mentioned it above, too: Canon doing the repair labor for free is a huge stroke of luck, I could absolutely never, ever, imagine my local Canon service doing that - cps member or not, inside warranty (but user's fault) or outside warranty.

Actually I do find it a bit depressing that talking them down like that seems to have some effect while I'm stupid enough to sheepishly pay my repair bills w/o even trying to lament about the huge bill. And I would have every reason to as I'm running on a extremely tight budget and my equipment breaking like the op's would really, really bad for me.

 

[Don Haines]

Neuro, how much is CR guy paying you? Is it per posting or per month?

I'm thinking that PBD, Spokane, Jrista, Marsu, and the rest of us should go on strike demanding better pay... Right now we are getting $0.00 per post..... And to make it worse, it's even in Canadian dollars.... We demand our pay to be doubled!

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

I think the pharmaceutical industry in the USA is paying very low wages. The economic crisis has become so severe that Neuro need a precarious work as "writer defending Canon". :-[

I live in Brazil, and economic growth here was 0.1% in 2014. I also want to receive money of Canon to write positive things about this greedy company. : Tell me, what is the salary?

If Nikon pay more, and I can change sides and write Nikonrumors, or maybe Sony pay better wages ...

 

[zim]

Wow it's like having our favourite Swede back, brilliant ;D

 

[Aglet]

Mainly it sat in weather sealed bag.

If you stored it mainly in this sealed bag, with a battery in the camera, and without swapping fresh dessicant packs into the bag to keep it really dry, then you likely caused a possible condensation issue and the battery would have driven a corrosion process that would destroy parts of a circuit board.

I've read many Canon owner's manuals cover-to-cover (they're very well written) and I'm pretty sure there's a topic in there about proper storage procedures.

Sorry to say, as a few others have, this is a problem you likely created by improper storage and is unlikely due to any defect in quality or workmanship of the product.
If you understand that, then the fact Canon gave you a break on the repairs you don't really have a lot to grouse about.

 

[gbchriste]

Whether condensation was the actual cause of malfunction or not, you are the one demanding that Canon manufacture a DSLR with interchangeable lenses that is immune to condensation. This is a practical impossibility because once you remove a lens, you have opened up the entire camera body to the exposure of latent water in the atmosphere, which exists as a gas, and will eventually permeate through even the most tightly sealed and seemingly impenetrable commercial materials.

And you say you stored it in a sealed water tight bag. What was the atmospheric humidity on that day? If there was even a small trace of humidity, you trapped whatever water was in the air inside the bag, with your camera, when you sealed the bag up. That water had no where to go and no way to dry out. So every time the temperature changed you ran the risk of that water condensing out of the air and collecting on and in the camera.

I don't know what the cause of the malfunction was but condensation was certainly a possibility.

Where do I submit my invoice to Canon for this post?

 

[rs]

7D user manual:
http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/5/0300004275/02/eos7d-im4-en.pdf

Page 2:
"After shooting, playback and check whether the image has been properly recorded. If the camera or memory card is faulty and the images cannot be recorded or downloaded to a computer, Canon cannot be held liable for any loss or inconvenience caused"

Page 261:
"Before storing the camera or accessory when not in use, remove the battery pack"

Page 262:
"Do not store the equipment in dusty or humid places"

 

[serendipidy]

Thanks for a very informative and entertaining thread ;D

 

[Marsu42]

"Do not store the equipment in dusty or humid places"

To be fair, that's very vague and rather sounds like written as a precaution and to be able to say "we told you so". Well, we told you so ...

... but what's the level "dusty" that poses a threat, what humidity - anything above "center of the desert at noon" level, or above usual moderate climate room-temperature level, or tropical rainforest, or... ?

Thanks for a very informative and entertaining thread ;D

That's what CR is all about - watch the Canon fanboi police clash with newbies wanting max value and iq out of the box, and grab the popcorn :->

 

[East Wind Photography]

ME:"...they are extremely and unjustifiably active blog contributors, for someone that claims disinterest."

You: "Just when I'm about ready to hang up Canon Rumors Forum and find something more constructive to do, a thread like this pops up and I'm hooked again."

Being fairly new to these forums you will see that this kind of discussion will actively bring out the flames and challenges. Don't get too worked up over it. You clearly stated your opinion. I too recently had a bad experience but that ended well. Bought a 7d2 and after several months of testing was bitterly disappointed in the product. I sent it back to canon and they fixed it. Yes it was under warranty and I was happy about that.

Others here had bought and returned the same model several times to try and get a good one...and finally gave up. I instead sent it to get fixed. It was a new camera. While others were complaining about the problems, I got my camera back and was working all as good as my 5d3.

People complained that after spending 1700 on a new camera it should work right out of the box...and was unsatisfied wheni it didn't. I saw it differently. I got a camera back that was repaired, re-calibrated and re-tested back to factory specs and I am certain this camera is functioning as canon designed it.

Now it may crap out 1 day after the warranty expires but the odds are against that. I have 5 canon bodies now and have never had any issues with them. In fact I personally don't know of anyone that has had a canon body issue. I do know several that have had nikons fail during a trip...and not a vacation. One had 3 nikons fail at the onset of photographing cheerleading competitions. He had to go out and buy all new canon gear not having any trust in Nikon anymore. His experience persuaded me to switch as well.

My point here is to look at things a bit differently. If I had been like the guy who returned his camera 3 times and was not pleased, I would not have it now and it's now my primary camera for sports and wildlife.

The reality is that all of these complex electronic devices are just crap, waiting for someone to destroy them completely and totally beyond repair. Might be an electronic failure, might be a slip and it falls to the floor. Sometimes we need to take a loss or get it repaired.

Your 7D is now repaired. Just go out and use it and enjoy photography. If you switch to Nikon now it will cost you even more money. It's the technological world we live in.

 

[Magnardo]

Well,....We are past information collecting now,..It's gotten to the point where everyone is trying to prove their smarts and debating skills.

Canon asked for $579 to fix a camera that costs $750 right now.

I was upset.
They dropped it to $350.

Now again, the guys that refuse to intelligently process information said: Ohhh,.. That was so nice in the part of Canon.
In fact they have sold me their repair of $350 which probably cost them less then half, therefore again making money in the process.

I would have never paid $579 to repair a camera that cost an extra $150 brand new and they knew that.

I do not like repaired stuff. We live in a world where most people are not pursuing excellence and as such, reassembly of a camera, is an extra procedure, with less oversight, that might make things go wrong in the future. Then the other thing to go wrong will not be covered by the warranty.

Somebody posted this:

"After shooting, playback and check whether the image has been properly recorded. If the camera or memory card is faulty and the images cannot be recorded or downloaded to a computer, Canon cannot be held liable for any loss or inconvenience caused"

Page 261:
"Before storing the camera or accessory when not in use, remove the battery pack"

Page 262:
"Do not store the equipment in dusty or humid places"

Basically these are written by lawyers and state that: Any camera can break at any time for whatever reason and Canon does not bear any responsibility.

Stop talking about Condensation,...Let's talk about Bad Circuitry and Bad Wiring.
That's why the camera went wrong.
Condensation it's just a convenient decoy.
Everyone glorifies Condensation, while nobody else can explain why oh why? the other cameras work fine.

Bad Circuitry and Bad Wiring.
Let's talk about this.
Is this a possibility?

Some busy little bee talks about assuming responsibility.
I paid for the camera twice.
Please allow me to be unhappy about it.

 

[slclick]

I feel your pain, been there with other products, not Canon but electronics all the same. My theory, shit breaks, no matter the brand. Now as for a mfg taking a hit for repairing those damages, well I'm sorry you didn't get things your way. I just can't see them rubberstamping everything on a customer's word. Personally, I have had nothing but stellar and fast customer service which has exceeded my expectations in every way. True, I have Gold level CPS membership. Now sometimes someone will get a bad item, it sounds like you did, It is not inherent of the 7D line. Just bad luck. I would not give up on the Canon system because of this isolated incident.

Try Nikon customer service and you'll be a Canon devotee for life.

 

[jdramirez]

I've grown bored of this back & forth.

 

[old-pr-pix]

This tread highlights some stark realities of buying and using high tech products:
1) Anyone who has a product fail is unhappy - if it fails just out of warranty they are really ticked.
2) Stuff happens - even the best designed products can have faulty parts/batches, users do things wrong, etc.
3) Most companies only derive a profit margin around 5-10% on most products once they pay for R&D, manufacturing costs, advertising, marketing, shipping, distributors, dealers, etc. Product cost does drop over time as R&D is paid off or as a product nears the end of its life and parts are being used up. Companies don't have a lot of margin to play with and can't afford a lot of #2! Assumptions that Canon is making several hundred dollars profit on a $1700 camera are likely way off base.
4) Repair parts are expensive and labor and equipment to handle repairs is really expensive. In production there is a steady flow of known quantities of parts. For repair they need to stock parts for years which may, or may not, ever be used. Plus they need to have all the expensive equipment needed to assemble and calibrate every product they support. It's not all used every day like it is in manufacturing. The inventory and equipment costs a lot of money, hence repair costs tend to be high. Comparing repair cost to manufacturing cost is apples and oranges.
5) "Weather sealed" is a marketing term. As mentioned, unless cameras start showing up with IPxx ratings it should be interpreted as "we tried!" From Roger Cicala we know that on the 7DII Canon "tried harder" to seal the camera. Pentax is well known for consistently "trying harder" to weather seal their cameras, but even they won't put an IPxx rating on them.
6) Condensation is evil; but, unlike the "weaving" example used above, it leaves definite evidence behind. If one suspects it is being used as a "cop-out" to avoid a real explanation for a failure, one should request photos of the damaged parts. Obviously a devious repair tech could send photos of someone else's camera, but that would escalate the situation to out-and-out fraud and could easily be exposed by reopening the OP's camera.
7) Some companies successfully rely on a business model where "consumables" are where the real profit resides (think ink jet cartridges) but I can't think of one company that uses a business model where repair centers are their primary profit centers. Companies can't survive intentionally selling crap and making their money by fixing it. (If someone has an example to the contrary please contribute it.)

To the OP, I fully understand your frustration and why you would be angry. You certainly have every right to never buy from Canon again. It certainly is possible Canon had a bad batch of circuit boards made with the wrong solder flux that corrodes over time and that the repair tech has a list of serial numbers (s)he checks and then is told to mark the repair as "condensation" to stick it to the customer. But, I don't think that's the case. If it were there would be a lot more complaints like yours on this forum