Canon Disappointment

[DRR]

You paid $1500 for the privilege of having a camera sit largely unused in your bag for almost 2 years. You can't complain about the original purchase price because you made those decisions to 1) buy it 2) not use it. You're the one that kept it in questionable conditions and never checked it, and that's what caused the failure. I don't see how this is a Canon problem.

Now you are complaining about a $350 repair charge, which seems pretty reasonable to me. Answer me, why did you not just save the $350, and put some rocks in your weather sealed bag for another 2 years? You'd derive about the same amount of usefulness out of that for much less money.

Honestly though you could have saved the $350, (+$350) bought a used 7D body instead, (-$500) and sold the bad one as-is (+$350), and you may actually have come out ahead in the transactions.

 

[tpatana]

Usually when i answer with that, i get yelled at by the canon rumors community, with that being said, i've had a 5 year old 7d finally take a crap on me due to weather sealing and a bad circuit board, but then again, i also got my fair share of usage out of it so i dont feel cheated or jaded. I live in a dry climate in the high sierras, but, I've had cameras fail of me on trips to the coast and chicago, places with high humidity and whatnot... the cameras would work for like 1-2 hours, shut off and i would have to dry them out before they would work again. They were not submerged in water or anywhere near the water, but just high humidity, like hawaii, can be tough on cameras. Even if you look at the user manual, you will find recommended shooting temperatures and humidity...

It was hidden in the subtext... but we what I was hinting at is that we are happy to help those who warrant being helped. But... if you act petulent, or entitled... you may get an accurate answer... but it doesn't mean it is the full answer.

There's this karma thingy, and while I don't believe it works in some supernatural way, I think it works exactly as you describe. If you are an asshole and act like it all the time, that how people will treat you. If you're nice and helpful, people will treat you nice and help you when needed.

Karma is cool.

 

[tpatana]

That claim that it cannot be condensation because other cameras are ok, is almost the most moronic thing I've ever heard.

This is not accurate - if you watch the threads on CR closely, you'll easily pick up many much more moronic things

That is true.

I shouldn't even try to remember the first time I cleaned the sensor myself,... Well, I was young and stupid. Now I'm not young anymore. I'm sure people who I told my cleaning story, thought I'm the biggest moron in the world. Luckily we have this internet-thingy, with some effort I can prove that there's actually even more stupid people around.

 

[kelpdiver]

Nikon used to have the Nikonos IV, an interchangeable lens UNDERWATER camera..... but nobody in their right mind would use it out of water.....

The nikonos line saw a fair amount of surface use. It was a rugged camera that could be dumped in water to clean afterwards, making it a very good camera for harsh environments.

These days it makes a lot less sense - manual focus (and for pre IVa, no autoexposure), and only the 35mm and 80mm lenses available.

---
Going back to the OP

Your primary incorrect assumption is believing that new and used cameras are the most reliable. These are in fact the least reliable. They don't have any wear, but nor have they proven themselves. When I buy electronics, I want to give them their shakedown testing before the 30 day vendor return period ends. Much easier to return to them then to try to get it serviced under warranty.

Cameras in the 5-50k clicks are well proven, and even the heavily used ones (by pros) are proven, though eventually you might have to replace the shutter. But that the model stands up to heavy use is a very good endorsement.

Funny enough, the refurbs being sold are also more reliable than new. For the new production line, they only spot check a few units for QA purposes. The warranty addresses the others. It's too costly to test them all. You may well have gotten a bad unit. But refurbs get tested 100% of the time. As do repairs. Your repaired 7d is a better bet than a new unit, esp since they've been sitting in a warehouse for a long time now. If it does fail again, you should be able to lobby them to give you one of those new ones or refurbs.

Your other objection is that the repair cost was nearly as high as the current sale price of the 7d. But this is the clear out price of a model released 5.5 years ago. It's not a realistic comparison. And if you really paid $1500 for it less than 2 years ago, where on earth were you shopping? I paid 1400 for it 4 years ago, and it's routinely been under a grand since. I suspect you're engaging in a bit of hyperbole there.

 

[Magnardo]

We are past making sense now,...and that's fine.

I've read a few moronic things from these last few contributors.

The most accomplished moronic thing was comparing condensation to a nail. Great one Einstein.

Also to everything I said, there's 10 different responses from reoccurring people that complain that I am wasting their time.

Dude,...You do not have to be here. Please stop helping me with your negativity. Go and play with yourself. Do something important,... Go and see your proctologist.
That should clear things up for you.

Some people were willing to help and I thank them for it.
Others needed an outlet for their brain farts.

Some, who probably failed Debate classes in high school, came here just to argue.
Nothing in particular,..just anything they could.
People with unhappy lives, looking to spread their own misery like pixiedust.

The call me idiot and other names but fail to do the first intelligent thing required in any conversation and the backbone of any Debate.
In order to participate successfully, you have to have the ability to Listen, in this case, to have the patience to read the entire paragraph of the guy you think you are arguing with, to know what you have to counteract.
For those failed debaters: That's how you destroy someone's opinion about something.
First step is you need to understand what they are saying so you can compose a game plan.
Otherwise you embarrass yourselves like you just did here.

Moving on.

Warranty is not a contract.
A contract cannot be binding when only one side signs it.
I, as a consumer, have absolutely no say in it.
Warranty could be a contract but it is not necessarily.
Mainly, it is a promise of honor to honor a product in case it is defective.

I, myself, have sold something to someone before, with no warranty.
It broke. I took it back.
I was able to identify the product was faulty, indifferent of their usage.
That is the honorable thing to do.
Now I could have said,..I told you no warranty,....but I did not, because it did not feel right.
There is an internal clock with an arrow inside everyone and it points to what is correct.
It is up to everyone in particular if they decide to act on it or just ignore it.
Did I have to give that guy's money back?
No.
But, for me, that would have not been fair.
In the future, if I will have anything to sell, they will probably trust me as an honest seller and come back.

Anyways,...

My camera broke.
There could be many reasons why.
One of them was Condensation.
Was it Condensation?
Maybe.
Was it for sure?
Nobody knows.
If Condensation was in my house, should affect other cameras that lived in identical environment.
Probably.
Was it possible that it might have been a faulty circuit board?
Yes it was.
Can anybody know for sure?
No.Nobody knows.
If the repair people wanted to investigate the cause could they?
Probably.
Did they investigate the cause?
Who knows?! But not likely.
Are investigating and fixing something two different activities?
Yes they are.
Was the camera past it's warranty promise?
Yes it was.
Did Canon have any incentive to investigate the real cause of the camera breaking down?
No, they did not.
(and By the Way, They never said that my camera went bad because Condensation. Their exact words were: " One of the reasons for why a circuit board goes bad is if it's submerged underwater or it could be because of condensation.")
If the circuit board was bad to begin with and they sold me a bad camera to begin with, should have they assumed responsibility?
It would have been nice.
Would that have been smart?
Probably.
Is that how Apple won over many consumers, by going beyond the minimality of their service?
Yes it is.
Now, if I took my camera in an unhealthy environment and did not take care of my camera properly, would it be right for me expect Canon to fix the camera for free?
No. It would be not.
Can anybody asses properly that my house has high levels of humidity which damaged the camera?
No, they cannot.
Is it likely?
No it is not.

That's it.
And that's all.

Too many people concentrate on the specifics and minute exact details and try to outsmart each-other, instead of trying to find the truth,.... behaving the same way like the lawyer that put OJ back on the street because the glove did not fit.
Nobody cares about Justice, Honor, Truth Decency and other things.
These are terms from out of space.
It is all a game to outsmart one another through tricky contracts, excuses and overusing cliche blind corners.
Credit cards writing things in fine print that you can barely read. etc.

The most funny thing for me, when I meet fake people, is their Hypocrisy.
They all wave around like flags, big notions they do not understand, and talk really loud like they are the keepers of the universal knowledge but mostly, they repeat things they have been told or heard somewhere, without truly processing information.

I see a lot of the same things here,...
I understand that a few of you do not understand and will not understand because you cannot understand and If you were ever close to understanding, your brain would explode.

Simple thing is: I can do whatever I want with my money.
Canon can do whatever they want with their cameras.

If I am happy with their equipment, I will buy more.
If i'm unhappy, I will stop buying.

We are both right. Nobody is wrong.
Everything else is a coincidence.

Again,... The good people that were trying to help.
This was not intended for you.

It was written for the flaccid minds jealous of anything that sits straight.

 

[tpatana]

with your negativity.

;D

Go and play with yourself.

Every night.

Cheers mate. You seem to be the one all worked up. Not worth that much agony over $350. Yes, it sucks, but your rant is totally too much compared to what happened.

 

[serendipidy]

After 8 pages, I think the main lessons I have learned (IMHO) are that if you buy something expensive (that can sometimes either be defective or can break early in use for whatever reason) and it has a time limited return or warranty then:

1) Use it a lot when you first get it to make sure it is good and reliable so if it breaks, it does so in the return or warranty time
2) Read carefully the instruction manual and be sure to follow it closely when it comes to maintenance and upkeep-this may or may not help
3) Once in a while you are gonna get screwed and you will be very angry but as much as possible try to keep your cool and calmly try to get satisfaction-may or may not be successful
4) Do your diligent consumer research (google is your friend as is the internet) before you spend your hard earned money
5) Go home, relax and have a drink, hug your wife and kids (if you have any), see the big picture and count your blessings
6) In a public forum, the way you say things and the way you present yourself can influence the response you get from others

 

[Magnardo]

Amen.

 

[martti]

A couple of years back I had a similar experience with iPhone. The home button stopped working while still under warranty. I was told that it was a humidity event and the repair would be for me to pay. What I did was very mature: I changed my provider, got an Android phone and never went back.

Until I read about iFixit site and decided to see what could be done with the iPhone that had in the mean time killed its battery. When I openend the phone, all the detectors were white –no sign of water of even humidity.
So the f*****s had lied to me. So I changed the battery, jailbroke the phone and reprogrammed the home button funtion to the movement sensor. Somebody was very happy with the phone for three years....

So people –in addition to producing and selling shoddy merhandise– they also lie.

 

[Marsu42]

So people –in addition to producing and selling shoddy merhandise– they also lie.

I wouldn't say cps is actively lying (not that I think you're implying that)...

... but recently a friend of mine wanted his 5d2 fixed that had problems with the af system. Canon told him that the thing is broken beyond repair, and they were nearly right - when they returned it, it was completely broken (unlike the state he gave it to them). He did the wrong thing and sold it as broken on ebay, but the next guy managed to repair it just like that for a $ of parts and labor outside cps. So I'd ask for a private, second opinion if cps says something's broken for good.

 

[East Wind Photography]

So people –in addition to producing and selling shoddy merhandise– they also lie.

I wouldn't say cps is actively lying (not that I think you're implying that)...

... but recently a friend of mine wanted his 5d2 fixed that had problems with the af system. Canon told him that the thing is broken beyond repair, and they were nearly right - when they returned it, it was completely broken (unlike the state he gave it to them). He did the wrong thing and sold it as broken on ebay, but the next guy managed to repair it just like that for a $ of parts and labor outside cps. So I'd ask for a private, second opinion if cps says something's broken for good.

This is true. Generally speaking manufactures will replace entire sub assemblies instead of just the bad component. A 3rd party could possibly find the fault and replace something specific to bring it back to working order given time and labor...could be extensive.

The issue becomes what caused the failure in the first place? Was it a component failure or was it environmental? If the latter, something else could fail again after the repair and you would be pissed off again.

Manufacturers generally don't have the time or means to perform component repairs when they can just install a new circuit board. It used to be easy to troubleshoot electronic issues before surface mount components and multilayer circuit boards were introduced. And now we have moved to everything on a chip models.

There are components that simply cannot be purchased by 3rd parties because they are canon specific. I've never heard of anyone purchasing say a Digic 6 processor chip. However a 3rd party may be able to buy the board assembly.

There are 3rd party options for repair but it's not always in your favor or best interest to go that route.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

After 8 pages, I think the main lessons I have learned (IMHO) are that if you buy something expensive (that can sometimes either be defective or can break early in use for whatever reason) and it has a time limited return or warranty then:

If I could add two more to your great list

7. If you happen to have a bad experience with one piece of equipment that does not mean that every product produced by the company will be bad.

8. If you don't like a product made by a specific company, don't buy it. But don't make comments indicating that others should not buy products from that company.

HOW CAN ANYONE BUY OR RECOMMEND CANON PRODUCTS TO ANYONE THEY DO NOT HATE?

. If you don't like Canon, fine. Billions of people on the earth don't use Canons. But many people do like Canon and their products.

Of course my two items apply to many discussions on CR. ;D

 

[Hector1970]

I can understand it must have been a very frustrating incident for you as it is upsetting to have a such a valuable piece of equipment unusable. It's fair too to vent from time to time.
It's also important to remember that not everyone will agree with you and people don't necessarily disagree with you out of spite.
I for one are glad that people like Neuroanatomist, Mt Spokane, Marsu, Surapon, Jrista, Dilbert etc and others do take their time to throw in their 2 cents worth in the forum. I think they always give good points of view. Sometimes it might be funny, irreverant, cheeky, snappy but generally in good spirit.
They've personally been helpful to me in learning alot of technical things and corrections of mis-guided opinions or ideas.
Best of luck with your next equipment supplier. I hope you will be happy with them and take great photos.

 

[martti]

When I destroyed the CF connector of my 5DII with a defective CF card, Canon France told me that they'd have to change the motherboard for 565 euros. I said 'merci mais non merci'. The official Canon repair center in Finland changed the connector for 130 euros.

So I repeat what I said: People do lie. Or 'tell the version of truth that suits their purposes' if you prefer Newspeak.

Marsu's suggestion of an independent guy taking a look is a good one. There might be and extra 5DII body somewhere that one could cannibalise. For the Greater Good.

 

[DRR]

We are past making sense now,...and that's fine.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Moving on.

Warranty is not a contract.
A contract cannot be binding when only one side signs it.
I, as a consumer, have absolutely no say in it.
Warranty could be a contract but it is not necessarily.
Mainly, it is a promise of honor to honor a product in case it is defective.

A warranty is not exactly a contract, however, in most cases (including yours) it acts like one.

When you agreed to purchase the camera, the warranty that came with it was one of the terms. You agree to pay $1500 to the retailer, and the retailer delivers to you a camera, AND conveys the warranty from Canon. Canon promises to fix defects in the camera, free of charge, for ONE YEAR. NOT IN PERPETUITY.

You do have a say in your warranty coverage. You could, not buy that camera. Or, you could purchase supplemental coverage (Squaretrade for example). More coverage = more money. Less coverage = less money. Just like auto, or home insurance.

If you buy a refurbished camera, the warranty period is less (90 days for example), so you expect to pay less for a refurbished camera than new. If you buy a used camera out of warranty, you expect to pay significantly less, because it's used, and comes with no warranty. As you can see, the warranty itself actually has a monetary value, which you already paid for, and didn't use. That's not Canon's fault, that's your fault.

You are outside of the warranty period. You have absolutely no basis for a complaint.

So I understand your frustration but you have very little recourse aside from b*tching about it on a forum. Canon has in fact honored their part of the warranty - in fact they've gone beyond that, by offering you a discounted repair - you are the one who is asking for too much - you are asking for a free out of warranty repair.

I don't know what the cause of the problem was - when I first read that it was in a waterproof bag for essentially two years, the first thing that popped into my mind was condensation issues - but who knows. It could very well have been a faulty circuit board from the factory, as you suggest. It could have been someone dropping the box from a shelf at the retailer. It could be a hundred different things, and when you're out of the warranty period, it doesn't actually matter what caused the damage - you are responsible.

I am sorry that seems to be a difficult truth for you to accept but pretty much no one on this thread shares your anger and your outrage because you are the one who has a lot of responsibility in this matter, and you don't seem to be accepting any of it. You cannot be helped, because you are not accepting of help.

I wish you good luck, and I would not blame you if you decided to switch back to Nikon, or Pentax, or mirrorless, or whatever. I can understand this experience has soured you on Canon. However I'll leave you with a warning - in the same situation, a different company would have done the exact same thing as Canon. You are not going to get better service from Sony or Samsung or anybody else.

Good luck.

 

[kfreels]

A warranty is not exactly a contract, however, in most cases (including yours) it acts like one.

When you agreed to purchase the camera, the warranty that came with it was one of the terms. You agree to pay $1500 to the retailer, and the retailer delivers to you a camera, AND conveys the warranty from Canon. Canon promises to fix defects in the camera, free of charge, for ONE YEAR. NOT IN PERPETUITY.

You do have a say in your warranty coverage. You could, not buy that camera. Or, you could purchase supplemental coverage (Squaretrade for example). More coverage = more money. Less coverage = less money. Just like auto, or home insurance.

If you buy a refurbished camera, the warranty period is less (90 days for example), so you expect to pay less for a refurbished camera than new. If you buy a used camera out of warranty, you expect to pay significantly less, because it's used, and comes with no warranty. As you can see, the warranty itself actually has a monetary value, which you already paid for, and didn't use. That's not Canon's fault, that's your fault.

You are outside of the warranty period. You have absolutely no basis for a complaint.

So I understand your frustration but you have very little recourse aside from b*tching about it on a forum. Canon has in fact honored their part of the warranty - in fact they've gone beyond that, by offering you a discounted repair - you are the one who is asking for too much - you are asking for a free out of warranty repair.

I don't know what the cause of the problem was - when I first read that it was in a waterproof bag for essentially two years, the first thing that popped into my mind was condensation issues - but who knows. It could very well have been a faulty circuit board from the factory, as you suggest. It could have been someone dropping the box from a shelf at the retailer. It could be a hundred different things, and when you're out of the warranty period, it doesn't actually matter what caused the damage - you are responsible.

I am sorry that seems to be a difficult truth for you to accept but pretty much no one on this thread shares your anger and your outrage because you are the one who has a lot of responsibility in this matter, and you don't seem to be accepting any of it. You cannot be helped, because you are not accepting of help.

I wish you good luck, and I would not blame you if you decided to switch back to Nikon, or Pentax, or mirrorless, or whatever. I can understand this experience has soured you on Canon. However I'll leave you with a warning - in the same situation, a different company would have done the exact same thing as Canon. You are not going to get better service from Sony or Samsung or anybody else.

Good luck.

This is absolutely correct. I couldn't have said it better myself except maybe to summarize it... "Sh*t happens".

 

[IgotGASbadDude]

You are outside of the warranty period. You have absolutely no basis for a complaint.

Summary from Judge Logical:

"The defendant may (or may not) have produced a defective product. You failed to meet your responsibility of identifying the defect during the clearly defined terms of the warranty. Judgement for defendant. Case closed."

END OF THREAD . . .

 

[Skatol]

Page 12 of Canon 7D user manual:
"If the camera will not be
used for an extended period, remove the battery
and store the camera in a cool, dry, well-ventilated location. Even while the
camera is in storage, press the shutter button a few times once in a while to
check that the camera
is still working."
AND:
"If the camera has not been
used for an extended period, test all its functions
before using it. If you have not used the
camera for some time or if there is
an important shoot coming up, have
the camera checked by your Canon
dealer or check the camera
yourself and make sure it is working properly."

Even if this occurred within the warranty period Canon would not be obligated to repair (though I'm sure they would) since the proper storage procedure was not followed according to their instructions.

I used it a few times every four months or so.

Mainly it sat in weather sealed bag.

I think, in my opinion, Canon has treated you fairly. You asked for opinions, sorry that they ended up not being what you wanted to hear.

 

[jdramirez]

Your other objection is that the repair cost was nearly as high as the current sale price of the 7d. But this is the clear out price of a model released 5.5 years ago. It's not a realistic comparison. And if you really paid $1500 for it less than 2 years ago, where on earth were you shopping? I paid 1400 for it 4 years ago, and it's routinely been under a grand since. I suspect you're engaging in a bit of hyperbole there.

Last year I bought a used 7d and a 28-135mm for 650... And after selling the lens, my final cost for a like new 7d body was around $500.

That is uncommon, but certainly the market value for a 7d body wasn't $1500.

 

[Magnardo]

Tacatam. Tacatam, Tacatam.

Like I said, past making sense.

People concentrate again on talking and running their mouths, without reading and processing.

They are preoccupied with just tacatam, tacatam, tacatam.
They isolate something out of context and respond to a single thing that means nothing by itself.
Like I stated before, no one can make another person think, if they themselves do not want to.

Warranty is a proposal and a promise it is not a contract.

You have no say in it.

None.

If every manufacturer out there decides to sell cameras without any warranty , you will have no choice but to buy a camera with no warranty, if you want one. Then, maybe you can sue them for selling you crap. Warranty makes things simpler.

All the cameras I owned over the years, I never had one break because of condensation, or never heard any of the photographers I know, have a camera break because of Condensation.
Only on this tread cameras break very often because of condensation.

I never went boating or scuba diving with Canon equipment.

Camera was broken before Hawaii. Had nothing to do with Hawaii humidity.

As my wife remembered,...I put a few batteries inside, on two different occasions, but wrongly assumed they were discharged. I have 4 Canon batteries. Never used third party. Never ever crossed my mind the camera could be broken because I trusted in Canon reliability and also this was not an entry model and also camera was barely used.

The idea of having back up stuff, is so you can use them if your primary camera breaks.

When you have a better camera, you will use your better camera with your full sensor lenses, until it breaks, because it produces better results. The stand in actor may or may not work, if the main actor wants to do more.

Logically , for me, the only time to use the 7D, was when I did not want to jeopardize the 5D, parties etc, for sports as it has faster frames per sec, or when I needed the versatility and the convenience of the 17-55 IS. I like using primes so,... not that much for me.

Camera was NOT not used for two years. It was used every so often but not too often, when I tried the 15-35 Sigma or with the other Cannon crop sensor zoom lens 17-55 and when I used the 135 to get closer to something. Every few months or so. Sorry I did not keep a log of its usage, but it is safe to assume every 3-4 months.

Never kept camera in waterproof bag, kept it in weather sealed bag. Which is not the same thing.
It means that it shields it from rain, if exposed. It was never exposed to any rain.

I do not think I have strong condensation in my house.


Personal Conclusion,...Condensation does not happen very often, under normal circumstances, except on this tread.

The camera broke because it was bad to begin with.

I do not like it. It feels wrong.

Money?

I got two kids.
350$ means more then it did before.
Let me repeat, before I had kids, I had no kids.

The main issue that bothers me, though, is basically fairness.
Not the fairness of the binding none existent contract but that of doing the right thing.

If the circuit is bad, even if it's out of warranty, it's the manufacturer's fault.
They sold a bad piece of equipment.
If I did not catch it in time, it's a matter of circumstance.
It's not one of those things that had a limited life span and goes bad through extensive usage.

All you guys concentrate on Warranty , Warranty , Warranty.
Fine.
The manufacturer is very nice to offer warranty for their products.
Once the warranty expires the manufacturer has fulfilled the warranty promise and nobody has any real leverage to ask for anything more.
They behaved correctly according to the rules they set before hand. They do not have to do anything else.
In my case They did not.

They offered to fix it for 579$.
I said too much.
They said ok,... 350$?
I said ok.
They did not do it because they were nice and tried to help me.
It was another business transaction where they made money.

For me, that's not enough, if what they sold was bad to begin with.

It is enough but it is not enough.

They behaved correctly according to the rules they set before hand but if the part was bad, then it was bad.
We cannot know for sure who is right or wrong and what happened because nobody investigated nothing.

Reading a lot of stuff here, maybe Canon should make a church where a lot of the guys here can pray to Canon.
Basically , the consumer should be eternally grateful for every piece of equipment they buy from them.
They should not expect it to work past the warranty period. If it works, you should pray some more.
Everything Canon does is nice and friendly, everything others do, is trying to suck the life out of Canon.

I dropped a Canon camera once.
It broke.
I never expected Canon to fix it.

When I buy a camera that is not cheap.
I expect it to perform for a lot of years and to get a lot of usage out of it.
One year, use it or not use it, is not enough.
Those are the rules, but it's not enough.

In fact nobody would buy cameras if they all would die after one year.
The general understanding and expectation is that the cameras should work for many years and not break.

I understand that it is hard to offer individual warranty based on individual camera problems and this is the convenient encompass all variant and that's ok.

In my case,....Canon did everything correctly.
Question is,...Was it enough to make me buy more of their stuff?

Now,..Next time I decide to spend money, do I have the right to be picky about where and who I spend it with?
I think so.

Do I feel my trust in Cannon was shaken?
Yes I do.

I will remember your advice next time I see a Cannon billboard.
I will say: Sorry Cannon,...S___ happens.

It could have been forever love, but this relationship was fun.
See I am not married to Canon, like a lot of you here.

Everything said,....I am still deeply in love with my 5D March III and 85 1.2 (which I do not know how people complain about autofocus,...I can shoot sports with it no problem. Mine is very very responsive,) Also 135 2 and 100 2.8 and 35 1.4 are Lovely.

I will not post on this because there is no more juice left.
We have all squeezed everything out already.

Thank you.
I've learned a few.

Jdramirez Nice picture of your daughter with the 85 1.2.
The piano makes it look really cool.
Your daughter is very beautiful.

This is , if you can take a compliment from an unaccomplished nonprofessional photographer that probably lies about the price for which he purchased stuff.