Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...

ahsanford said:
And Bryan Carnathan at TDP is first:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=9939

Please post links to any reviews that you see on this thread. My rental of this lens just arrived -- can't wait to put it through it's paces this weekend.

- A
Thanks for sharing.

I am pretty impressed how well it is at f4 already. especially compared to the 16-35 F/2.8L II
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=949&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=2&API=0&LensComp=412&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=2&APIComp=2

If I would go more into this focal range, I definetly would want it. Having the 17-40L already, it's too much money to spend. But maybe someday... *sigh*
 
Upvote 0
dilbert said:
Yup, in terms of IQ, this lens just blows away the 16-35 and 17-40.

If you've still got one of those two lenses, you could try giving it away for free because they're not really worth having now.

Unless you are a professional that does events. Better corner sharpness from f/4-f/8 is not worth losing f/2.8. IS can't help motion blur.
 
Upvote 0
dilbert said:
Ruined said:
dilbert said:
Yup, in terms of IQ, this lens just blows away the 16-35 and 17-40.

If you've still got one of those two lenses, you could try giving it away for free because they're not really worth having now.

Unless you are a professional that does events. Better corner sharpness from f/4-f/8 is not worth losing f/2.8. IS can't help motion blur.

Lets see. The trade off is 1 stop of ISO for sharp across the frame.

And if you need 24/28/35 at f/2.8, Canon now has three primes with IS.

Dilbert, I agree with your tradeoff math and will probably buy the new lens, but if you are shooting moving subjects, sharp corners mean little if your subject is blurry from too slow of a shutter speed. :P

- A
 
Upvote 0
ahsanford said:
...if you are shooting moving subjects, sharp corners mean little if your subject is blurry from too slow of a shutter speed.

+1

I have the 70-200/2.8L IS II instead of the smaller/lighter/cheaper f/4 version for the extra stop of shutter speed.
 
Upvote 0
dilbert said:
Ruined said:
dilbert said:
Yup, in terms of IQ, this lens just blows away the 16-35 and 17-40.

If you've still got one of those two lenses, you could try giving it away for free because they're not really worth having now.

Unless you are a professional that does events. Better corner sharpness from f/4-f/8 is not worth losing f/2.8. IS can't help motion blur.

Lets see. The trade off is 1 stop of ISO for sharp across the frame.

And if you need 24/28/35 at f/2.8, Canon now has three primes with IS.

In the range I personally have in addition to the 16-35mm f/2.8L II, the 24mm f/1.4L and a 35mm f/2 IS USM. But, neither is a zoom (helpful at receptions), and neither can do 16-23mm. I also have the 24-70mm f/2.8L II, which is a zoom - but once again cannot do wider than 24mm. Hence, the importance of the 16-35mm f/2.8L II. I don't want to be stuck with the limitations of a f/4 lens. Also, the corner sharpness is unimportant when taking pictures of people as you need to put them in the center of the frame to avoid perspective distortion anyway in most of this focal length - center sharpness is far more critical. Also, IS for my needs is virtually useless below 70mm as my shutter will usually be 1/100 to avoid motion blur.

Believe me, if I didn't think I needed f/2.8 on the 16-35, I would sell the f/2.8L II on eBay as even today it sells for more used than the 16-35 f/4 IS costs new at full MSRP - I would essentially be able to do a swap with no net loss. But, I don't want to be put in the situation where I need 16-23mm f/2.8 and have to take a compromised picture because I don't have it.

Finally, note that the 16-35 f/2.8L II is actually sharp across the frame at f/11 (and pretty close at f/8). So if you have this lens, all you have to do is stop down - which you probably would be doing for DOF in landscape anyway. f/4 is really where the 16-35 f/2.8L II gets trounced in sharpness by the 16-35 f/4 IS, but that is the aperture that would likely be least used by either event or landscape photographers - too slow for event photographers, not enough DOF for landscape.
 
Upvote 0
Upvote 0
Ruined said:
Finally, note that the 16-35 f/2.8L II is actually sharp across the frame at f/11 (and pretty close at f/8). So if you have this lens, all you have to do is stop down - which you probably would be doing for DOF in landscape anyway. f/4 is really where the 16-35 f/2.8L II gets trounced in sharpness by the 16-35 f/4 IS, but that is the aperture that would likely be least used by either event or landscape photographers - too slow for event photographers, not enough DOF for landscape.
Have a look at these comparisons at F/11, though.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EF-16-35mm-f-4-L-IS-USM-Lens.aspx
(mouseover the aperture values to see the pictures change)

I would not call that "sharp across the frame" for the F/2.8 lens. At 16mm, the F/4 lens is very slightly better in the corners at F/11. And at 24mm and 35mm, it's clearly better. The new zoom even fares well against a Zeiss prime on that same page.

The one distinction is why a boatload of landscape people will buy the new F/4 lens. No Canon UWA zoom has delivered sharp corners... until possibly now. I'd like a few more reviews corroborating TDP's findings, but I'm optimistic.

- A
 
Upvote 0
dilbert said:
Every review/poster of samples has shown similar IQ.

(inferring what you meant) similar IQ... between the two lenses?

If so, I refer you to my prior post. I think Carnathan's shots show a clear corner sharpness improvement for the new lens at 24mm and 35mm -- even at F/11. At 16mm, I'd say the shots are a pretty much a draw if you stop down to F/11.

(if that's not what you meant, apologies -- wasn't sure)


And we should expect a sharper lens based on those MTF charts, right?

- A
 
Upvote 0
And here's my super quickie sharpness offering.

I didn't have a 16-35 to compare this against, so I compared it at 24mm against my 24-70 F/4L IS.

Approach:

* Both lenses set to 24mm
* Taken at F/4, F/5.6, F/8, F/11
* Tripod, cable release, LiveView focusing, etc.
* Aperture priority @ standard exposure
* Did not have peripheral illumination on
* RAW processed in ACR, sharpness set to 50 and everything else was default; no lens correction profiles were used

https://www.flickr.com/photos/66374817@N04/14546466862/sizes/o/

What you'll see here are the actual 1000x1000 pixels in the corner of images captures at four different apertures on two different lenses. Make sure you click on the 'original' size at the top to see this without downsampling problems.

Note that at 10x, I was focusing on the boards of the bench, not the ground behind the bench.

Clear limitation: I was in a mad rush (the rental is due back tomorrow) so I shot a scene without a clear near-infinity planar target (like a house). It was a park bench that was within perhaps 5-6 feet of the camera. So I actually LiveView focused at 10x in the corner itself (on the bench boards as said before). So these shots were not center focused -- they represented the best focusing I could get in the corner of interest.

My thoughts were good ones. The new 16-35 F/4L IS lens out-resolved a very sharp L zoom at 24mm in the corners. That and my other finding about vignetting with a Lee filter holder...

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=21554.msg409701#msg409701

...has me leaning strongly towards buying this lens.

- A
 
Upvote 0
Anyway here are two where I managed to get the placement of the focal plane reasonably close between the two lenses, if still not quite the same really. I accidentally set the 16-35 II to a touch wider FOV. The lighting changed so development had to be a bit different and I didn't quite match, anyway don't judge on large scale contrast or colors or such since this wasn't a good test for that.

I let ACR do CA correction (probably should have left it uncorrected since this is a demo), applied 21 sharpness at 0.6 in ACR and then 44% high ISO sharpening in NIK with edge/area setting pretty well balanced. No luma NR. ACR chroma NR on 8. No distortion corrections applied (found a house to shoot so you can really see the distortion differences).

24-70mm f/2.8L II at f/8 and 24mm:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3904/14536246791_b966c88403_o.jpg
16-35mm f/4L IS at f/8 and just under 24mm:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3882/14539623435_acec6ec0d3_o.jpg

I got a strange impression that the 24-70 II seemed to keep the center portion of the image near max sharpness, especially near the left part of the house over a slightly wider range of focal tweaks, but I might have been misled since the focusing wheel for the 16-35 IS is VERY, VERY short throw. It seemed like it was easier to not get 100% max sharpness at THE point of focus with the 16-35 IS for whatever reason, be it the lens or the short throw focusing wheel or whatnot. (EDIT: note I accidentally wrote "16-35 II instead of 16-35 IS in this paragraph originally, now fixed")

(for this set the aim had been to try to get peak crispness on the bricks just to the left of the door, and let the DOF fall where it did)

Anyway if it's this hard to tell apart from the 24-70 II it can't be that bad :D.
Although I still have an overall impression that the 24-70 II might be made to more easily have super ultra bite to it.
 
Upvote 0
I'm getting the feeling that there is a reason many sites (as well as myself) mostly to stick to lab tests or a ton of general shooting to get a general feel for a lens and don't try with a lot of careful real world comparisons as between slightly differing true f-stops, different field curvature, the surprisingly large differences in various parts of the frame that the TINIEST nudge of the focusing makes when shooting complex scenes with tons of detail at all sorts of depths up and down and side to side and back to front (yes even at 16mm and 24mm and f/8 or even f/10!), it's hard to carry out a decent test, one minute I am like oh man the 24-70 II truly is much sharper dead center than the 16-35, the next minute, hmm maybe it's actually close, one minute man the 16-35 does the near corners better, the next hmm maybe not because in that frame what I thought I focused on looks worse but this other focusing trial makes the corners a touch worse when the main subject is more similar in micro-contrast and yet at the same time dead center bottom frame near subject the 16-35 is crisper and same for far subject upper top center and on and on, just a little tweak, even at 24mm and f/8 where people talk about extreme DOF and a touch focusing difference making no difference, well it makes a lot of difference.

And you really need to shoot on a 100% cloudless day near noon in an open area where you won't get brightness constantly subtly changing and changes in shadowing and angle of light hitting the scene every few seconds. As how bright the light and what angle it glances off things can change apparent relative micro-contrast, etc.

It's almost easier to get a feeling by just randomly popping of tons of shots and eventually noticing that one lens, say a 24-105, just seems to never nail certain things, while some others do or doing that and sticking to easier scenes with less depth and just getting a general feeling after a while whether a lens can ever make far edges or corners sharp. Or a careful indoor chart test (but these are a bit tricky for wide angles, it's hard to test the edges in a normal fashion and it doesn't tell you as much about FC). It's almost like either strict test chart constant indoor lighting procedure or just a ton of random snapping makes it easier to get a sense than attempting a too quick supposedly careful real world tricky outdoor test.

But these tests where you have a scene with all sorts of depth and can't find a 100% cloudless day, etc. makes it tricky. And you really need to take like at least 12 focusing attempts, trying to exactly focus on the same spot and maybe another set where you keep trying to get best overall balance of all things in focus at once. Tricky. I have shots that I could show that would make the same lens appear to have somewhat noticeable different corner performance and peak center sharpness and difference in focusing was considerably small. If I labelled on lens A and one lens B you might think boy those lenses perform quite differently :D.

One curious thing is that both 24-70 II and 16-35 f/4 IS set to 24mm and f/8, it seems like I can get center frame top distant and center frame bottom close both a touch crisper with the 16-35 than with the 24-70 which seems to hint that the 24-70 II is truer to the f-stops and gives a touch less DOF (and more brightness) for the same aperture, OTOH the extreme corners might be a touch crisper on 24-70 on the torture test scene (maybe a sharpness difference or maybe a field curvature issue or maybe just a nudge of the focus as I'm still not sure I quite got the placement of focal plane quite exactly the same for both, it's very tricky to do, maybe with some giant slanted ruler or an array of cereal boxes to get a better sense of exact focusing, but just based off focusing on a real world scene, it's very tricky, even with more than one attempt, I bet you need a good 12 tries at least).

I also notice that even with copies of the same exact lens and with the camera left locked down tight on a tripod it seems like the framing slightly chances, perhaps hinting at slight tilts of the lens mounts copy to copy being common, which makes it all the more tricky to compare real world.
 
Upvote 0