Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II USM Lens Review

riker said:
I really don't understand the whole concept of 400/4 DO II and why anyone would actualy buy it. It's probably my fault.
But let's go back for a second in time when the first generation of 400/4 DO was introduced.

400/4 DO IS - 1940g
300/2.8L IS - 2550g
400/2.8L IS - 5370g

The whole point of the 400/4 DO and the DO technology itself was beeing LIGHT! Much lighter than other lenses. Canon has sacrificed image quality to make a LIGHT lens. It was a welcomed innovation by many. You could choose to have an L lens with superb image quality or a very light (also smaller), "mobile" DO lens. Whichever you needed.
600g difference between 400/4 and 300/2.8 (which is a 420/4 with 1.4X) was significant.

And now...

400/4 DO IS II - 2100g
300/2.8L IS II - 2350g
400/2.8L IS II - 3850g

300/2.8 has improved. A LOT. It's lighter, (all II gen lenses got lighter) it's even better optically than before and also has a shorter minimum focusing distance (2m from previous 2.5m). THAT is improvement.
Meanwhile 400/4 DO got heavier. The previous 600g difference is now only 250g. Minimum focusing distance is 3.3m. Yes, it got better, much better optically. But we already had superb lenses. What we don't have is light lenses. The primary goal of DO should be to reduce weight and size. Image quality only comes second, no matter how strange that could sound to you. The first generation wasn't sold for it's image quality either.
Or maybe is it cheap? It's not.

In my opinion, the 400 DO beeing 2100g is a big FAIL. It does not stand up to the 300/2.8 (+1.4X) at all.
Hi,
Why big fail?? EF 400mm F4 DO IS II is still smaller, lighter and sharper than EF 300mm F2.8L IS II... basically, the EF 400mm F4 DO IS II is for those who need the smallest, lightest and sharpest 400mm lens out there.

Have a nice day.
 
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weixing said:
riker said:
I really don't understand the whole concept of 400/4 DO II and why anyone would actualy buy it. It's probably my fault.

And now...

400/4 DO IS II - 2100g
300/2.8L IS II - 2350g
400/2.8L IS II - 3850g

300/2.8 has improved. A LOT. It's lighter, (all II gen lenses got lighter) it's even better optically than before and also has a shorter minimum focusing distance (2m from previous 2.5m). THAT is improvement.
Meanwhile 400/4 DO got heavier. The previous 600g difference is now only 250g. Minimum focusing distance is 3.3m. Yes, it got better, much better optically. But we already had superb lenses. What we don't have is light lenses. The primary goal of DO should be to reduce weight and size. Image quality only comes second, no matter how strange that could sound to you. The first generation wasn't sold for it's image quality either.
Or maybe is it cheap? It's not.

In my opinion, the 400 DO beeing 2100g is a big FAIL. It does not stand up to the 300/2.8 (+1.4X) at all.
Hi,
Why big fail?? EF 400mm F4 DO IS II is still smaller, lighter and sharper than EF 300mm F2.8L IS II... basically, the EF 400mm F4 DO IS II is for those who need the smallest, lightest and sharpest 400mm lens out there.

Have a nice day.

I agree with weixing and very much disagree with riker. The new 400 DO lens may be only 250g lighter than the 300 II but if 250g isn't much for you, the weight difference between the older 400 DO and the new is only 160 g.
For me the size is actually more important than the weight (which is light enough for me). The new 400 DO is really small compared to most L Tele Primes and thats whats so interesting about this lens.
 
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In retrospect, it seems odd that the 400mm focal length has been the test bed, as working on the longer lenses would be a better value proposition. Price cannibalization doesn't seem like the concern, as - it being Canon - they could just charge $18k for a 800 DO and make even more of a margin with it.

The number of people looking for a 400 vs 800 is huge. 400 users have tons of options each with advantages but huge disadvantages too. We've long been asking for a mash-up of these to get an affordable, lighter, faster, IS 400mm. The 400 DO II seems to be the Canon reply.

Riker, kind of all over the place in your comparison. The 300 II did get .5m (~1.5 ft) better mfd but the 400 DO II got better too ~ 1 foot better. The 300 was already about 1 meter better so it has a 4.2 ft advantage. For some this is a real advantage for others not so much.

If you need the 300mm that is an advantage but if you want 800mm sorry, the 400mm wins on that end. Personally, if other options were available, I would not buy a lens with the intention to always use it with the 1.4x or 2x attached. I prefer to use a lens at it's native focal length.

You compare the 400 to the 300+1.4x but when comparing weight you didn't add the 225g of the 1.4x.

The 400 DO II sounds like a really nice combination of IQ on par with the other supertele-primes, IS, light weight, faster than the 5.6, and lower price. Certainly not cheap, I hope the price will drop some, but it is better than the 10,000-12,000 of the STPs.

Again, to me this sounds like a great reply to what people like me have been asking for. If you already have the 300mm+1.4x you have a great rig and, if you're happy, no reason to think about the 400 DO II. I'll take the 400 DO II because I feel focal length challenged and the odds of my wife saying ok to a $7000 lens are much greater than a 10,000-12,000 lens.
 
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geonix said:
weixing said:
riker said:
I really don't understand the whole concept of 400/4 DO II and why anyone would actualy buy it. It's probably my fault.

And now...

400/4 DO IS II - 2100g
300/2.8L IS II - 2350g
400/2.8L IS II - 3850g

300/2.8 has improved. A LOT. It's lighter, (all II gen lenses got lighter) it's even better optically than before and also has a shorter minimum focusing distance (2m from previous 2.5m). THAT is improvement.
Meanwhile 400/4 DO got heavier. The previous 600g difference is now only 250g. Minimum focusing distance is 3.3m. Yes, it got better, much better optically. But we already had superb lenses. What we don't have is light lenses. The primary goal of DO should be to reduce weight and size. Image quality only comes second, no matter how strange that could sound to you. The first generation wasn't sold for it's image quality either.
Or maybe is it cheap? It's not.

In my opinion, the 400 DO beeing 2100g is a big FAIL. It does not stand up to the 300/2.8 (+1.4X) at all.
Hi,
Why big fail?? EF 400mm F4 DO IS II is still smaller, lighter and sharper than EF 300mm F2.8L IS II... basically, the EF 400mm F4 DO IS II is for those who need the smallest, lightest and sharpest 400mm lens out there.

Have a nice day.

I agree with weixing and very much disagree with riker. The new 400 DO lens may be only 250g lighter than the 300 II but if 250g isn't much for you, the weight difference between the older 400 DO and the new is only 160 g.
For me the size is actually more important than the weight (which is light enough for me). The new 400 DO is really small compared to most L Tele Primes and thats whats so interesting about this lens.

The spoiler is the 100-400 "for those who need the smallest, lightest and sharpest 400mm lens". It is just so much smaller and lighter - you have to use the big lens hood on the 400 DO or the 300mm/2.8 to protect the front lens, and it adds size and weight just where you don't want it. The 100-400 has only a small, light hood, and I haven't yet used it, preferring to have a clear filter for protection (the filter has no effect on IQ). And it is so sharp, although not as much as the DO, but good enough. Having said that, I have no difficulty hand holding the 300/2.8 for long periods but it so large for packing to take on trips.
 
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Vikmnilu said:
Interesting review, thanks!!

Another review by spanish nature photographer Oriol Alamany was posted here
http://blog.alamany.com/2015/01/canon-ef-400mm-f4-do-is-ii-review.html.

I think it is a quite interesting lens, unfortunately I won't be even thinking about purchase, if I ever get to buy a big white it will be the 200-400 1.4x because its versatility.

Cheers!!

Victor


Thanks for the link.
Interesting photos
 
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riker said:
I really don't understand the whole concept of 400/4 DO II and why anyone would actualy buy it. It's probably my fault.
But let's go back for a second in time when the first generation of 400/4 DO was introduced.

400/4 DO IS - 1940g
300/2.8L IS - 2550g
400/2.8L IS - 5370g

The whole point of the 400/4 DO and the DO technology itself was beeing LIGHT! Much lighter than other lenses. Canon has sacrificed image quality to make a LIGHT lens. It was a welcomed innovation by many. You could choose to have an L lens with superb image quality or a very light (also smaller), "mobile" DO lens. Whichever you needed.
600g difference between 400/4 and 300/2.8 (which is a 420/4 with 1.4X) was significant.

And now...

400/4 DO IS II - 2100g
300/2.8L IS II - 2350g
400/2.8L IS II - 3850g

300/2.8 has improved. A LOT. It's lighter, (all II gen lenses got lighter) it's even better optically than before and also has a shorter minimum focusing distance (2m from previous 2.5m). THAT is improvement.
Meanwhile 400/4 DO got heavier. The previous 600g difference is now only 250g. Minimum focusing distance is 3.3m. Yes, it got better, much better optically. But we already had superb lenses. What we don't have is light lenses. The primary goal of DO should be to reduce weight and size. Image quality only comes second, no matter how strange that could sound to you. The first generation wasn't sold for it's image quality either.
Or maybe is it cheap? It's not.

In my opinion, the 400 DO beeing 2100g is a big FAIL. It does not stand up to the 300/2.8 (+1.4X) at all.

The increase in weight compared to the older lens is coming from the built in tripod collar whereas the older lens weight is with the collar removed. In addition, the 400 DO IS II compared to the 300 IS II + 1.4x III is:
  • ~500g lighter
  • Faster focusing
  • Sharper wide open
 
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Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO durability?

I had a version 1 of the 400mm DO and twice on international trips, the front and rear barrel assemblies on the lens became loose, then completely broke apart -- the first time causing the distal 60% of the lens to crash onto the pavement. I had the lens hood on, so the glass was not damaged. Canon charged me $370 for the repair.

These two barrel assemblies are held together by internal bolts that are not accessible to the average user. I have heard other stories from friends of similar behavior with this lens.

I found it completely unacceptable to have a $6,000+ lens break into two separate pieces during normal usage far from anyplace I can get it repaired. Luckily, the second time, the break occurred on the last day of my trip.

No one else ever seems to mention this issue. Hopefully, they have fixed this problem in version II.
 
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johnf3f said:
It does seem like the 800mm f/5.6 is pretty pointless now, and a Mark II of it would have to be miraculously better to beat the 600mm II + TC... Unless they do a DO job to the 800. It's the only thing I can think of that would make the 800 focal length attractive. It could be 7 pounds, the weight of the 500mm F/4 II.

In retrospect, it seems odd that the 400mm focal length has been the test bed, as working on the longer lenses would be a better value proposition. Price cannibalization doesn't seem like the concern, as - it being Canon - they could just charge $18k for a 800 DO and make even more of a margin with it.

Try a Canon 800 and you may change your mind! Also, if you are buying used, they are much cheaper than the 600 Mk2 here in the UK. When I bought my Canon 800 there were no used 600 Mk2's on the market but my young mint-ish 800 was half the price of a new 600 Mk2 at the time. As to being pointless well it is, by far, my most used lens and I am delighted with it - far superior the the 600 IS Mk1 that I sold to help pay for it!

That makes sense to me in those circumstances. You actually made me go check out eBay for current 800mm used prices. As it seems now, the best retail price is $13k (gray market), and the best, and rather common, used price is $10k. For the used price to stay up that high, people must like the lens a lot. But I can get a 600mm II for close to that. Perhaps the price differentials are different in UK/elsewhere.

In any case, I have my fingers crossed that there is an 800 II in the works.

At those prices the 600 looks the better bet, so long as you don't mind using extenders. Whist the latest Canon cameras (I use the 1DX) and Mk3 extenders improve AF and, in the case of the 2 x Mk3, IQ I am not certain that I would be totally happy with the 600 Mk2 + a 1.4 extender to equal the 800mm - though I could well be wrong!
Over here (UK) people have been struggling to sell their 800's for decent money. I picked up mine in Jan 2013 for $8600 (in your money at the exchange rates back then), not too bad for an almost mint example in Ripoff Britain! A new 600 Mk2 was the equivalent of over $15000 here at that time.
I would probably prefer to have a 600Mk2 to my 800 but, to me, it is not worth a huge amount more. The larger aperture would be nice but I would be using extenders much more. The improved IS? I am not using the 4 stop IS that I already have so it's irrelevant. The better IQ as a bare lens, weight loss and the minimum focus distance are the attractions to me!
 
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Vikmnilu said:
Interesting review, thanks!!

Another review by spanish nature photographer Oriol Alamany was posted here
http://blog.alamany.com/2015/01/canon-ef-400mm-f4-do-is-ii-review.html.

I think it is a quite interesting lens, unfortunately I won't be even thinking about purchase, if I ever get to buy a big white it will be the 200-400 1.4x because its versatility.

Cheers!!

Thanks for posting - the new 400 DO is looking more and more interesting, pity I can't afford one!

Victor
 
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hoodlum said:
SLRGear just posted their review.

http://slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=1747

Thanks for the heads up. It is very interesting that the actual tests of the sharpness differ from what you would expect from Canon's MTF charts: both the 400/2.8 II and the 300/2.8 II are sharper in the "blur tests". On the other hand, ePhotozine has MTF charts with the 400mm DO much sharper than the 300mm f/2.8 II.
 
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AlanF said:
hoodlum said:
SLRGear just posted their review.

http://slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=1747

Thanks for the heads up. It is very interesting that the actual tests of the sharpness differ from what you would expect from Canon's MTF charts: both the 400/2.8 II and the 300/2.8 II are sharper in the "blur tests". On the other hand, ePhotozine has MTF charts with the 400mm DO much sharper than the 300mm f/2.8 II.
Personally I trust the SLRGear reviews the most - read how they test sharpness/focus:
http://www.slrgear.com/articles/focus/focus.htm
 
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hoodlum said:
SLRGear used the same bodies for the 300mm and 400mm prime tests. ePhotozine used the 5Dii with the 300mm f2.8 ii and then used the 5Diii with the 400mm f4 DO ii. The SLRGear tests would be more reliable for comparing.

I am not sure that using different cameras is the cause. At f/5.6, according to ePhotozine, both the 400 DO and the 300/2.8 are close to identical and the centres knocking the top of the chart, but the 300 is distinctly lower at f/2.8 than the DO at f/4.
http://www.ephotozine.com/article/canon-ef-300mm-f-2-8l-is-ii-usm-lens-review-19868
http://www.ephotozine.com/article/canon-ef-400mm-f-4-do-is-ii-usm-lens-review-26785

Seeing how they test, it looks like SLRgear should be the most reliable.
 
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