Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Achieves Best Canon Sensor Score at DXO

[jrista]

I don't like what i am seeing here (really i like it because the difference with the 5DIII is minimal).
I don't know if this method is better than DxO.

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV

Those charts are based on the authors PDR, or Photographic Dynamic Range. To understand the differences relative to engineering DR (a more standard method), read this:

http://www.photonstophotos.net/GeneralTopics/Sensors_&_Raw/Sensor_Analysis_Primer/Engineering_and_Photographic_Dynamic_Range.htm

Yes, and the difference beetween sensors is aprox the same that DxO.
The 5DIV (in my opinion) still is the best all-rounder camera, having in count that the A7RII sensor is slighty better but is far behind in autofocus performance.

I don't think the A7 series is far behind. I think it's on par, just like Canon is on par with Nikon. I think the main thing is, the Sony AF system works differently, so you can't use it the same way as you use the Canon AF system. Once you learn how the Sony system works, it is just as effective.

I'd say it depends on what you're doing. In the studio environment, I often find the sony more effective than my canon (5D3, mind you, I don't own the 5D4 and haven't used my 1Dx). The eyeAF is like black magic... when it works. But it also has a strong propensity to hunt.

When shooting long lenses, the canon is significantly better. If and when sony comes up with long native e-mount glass, it may close the gap somewhat, but the bodies may not have the power to drive heavy elements as effectively as canon SLRs. Perhaps they should offer up a battery compartment on superteles (not joking).

Yes, I was thinking in a most demanding scene with a telephoto and a fast subject.

I don't think that changes anything. Again, different systems, they operate differently. That doesn't mean one is less capable than the other. Even with an adapted lens from a different brand, Sony's newest AF systems are still capable of tracking fast objects like BIF. You just have to use the system properly. I see so many people fighting against the system, trying to force it to work the way they want it to, rather than working with it the way it was designed. That doesn't just go for Canon fans using a Sony for the first time, it goes for Sony fans using a Canon, or Nikon fans using a Sony, etc. If you fight against the design of the system, of course it's going to bomb. However if you learn how it works and work with it's design, whole different story.

 

[Don Haines]

I don't think that changes anything. Again, different systems, they operate differently. That doesn't mean one is less capable than the other. Even with an adapted lens from a different brand, Sony's newest AF systems are still capable of tracking fast objects like BIF. You just have to use the system properly. I see so many people fighting against the system, trying to force it to work the way they want it to, rather than working with it the way it was designed. That doesn't just go for Canon fans using a Sony for the first time, it goes for Sony fans using a Canon, or Nikon fans using a Sony, etc. If you fight against the design of the system, of course it's going to bomb. However if you learn how it works and work with it's design, whole different story.

YES!

This is why a "standard test" for AF is a bad idea. Different systems work differently....

 

[3kramd5]

I don't think that changes anything. Again, different systems, they operate differently. That doesn't mean one is less capable than the other. Even with an adapted lens from a different brand, Sony's newest AF systems are still capable of tracking fast objects like BIF. You just have to use the system properly. I see so many people fighting against the system, trying to force it to work the way they want it to, rather than working with it the way it was designed. That doesn't just go for Canon fans using a Sony for the first time, it goes for Sony fans using a Canon, or Nikon fans using a Sony, etc. If you fight against the design of the system, of course it's going to bomb. However if you learn how it works and work with it's design, whole different story.

YES!

This is why a "standard test" for AF is a bad idea. Different systems work differently....

+1

 

[jrista]

I don't think that changes anything. Again, different systems, they operate differently. That doesn't mean one is less capable than the other. Even with an adapted lens from a different brand, Sony's newest AF systems are still capable of tracking fast objects like BIF. You just have to use the system properly. I see so many people fighting against the system, trying to force it to work the way they want it to, rather than working with it the way it was designed. That doesn't just go for Canon fans using a Sony for the first time, it goes for Sony fans using a Canon, or Nikon fans using a Sony, etc. If you fight against the design of the system, of course it's going to bomb. However if you learn how it works and work with it's design, whole different story.

YES!

This is why a "standard test" for AF is a bad idea. Different systems work differently....

Ding! Ding!

Although...did someone actually try to come up with a standardized test for AF?

 

[StudentOfLight]

I don't think that changes anything. Again, different systems, they operate differently. That doesn't mean one is less capable than the other. Even with an adapted lens from a different brand, Sony's newest AF systems are still capable of tracking fast objects like BIF. You just have to use the system properly. I see so many people fighting against the system, trying to force it to work the way they want it to, rather than working with it the way it was designed. That doesn't just go for Canon fans using a Sony for the first time, it goes for Sony fans using a Canon, or Nikon fans using a Sony, etc. If you fight against the design of the system, of course it's going to bomb. However if you learn how it works and work with it's design, whole different story.

YES!

This is why a "standard test" for AF is a bad idea. Different systems work differently....

Ding! Ding!

Although...did someone actually try to come up with a standardized test for AF?

I'd use a tunnel of horrors:
- low light,
- needing quick focus
- on quick moving (jump-scare-type) objects

 

[jrista]

I don't think that changes anything. Again, different systems, they operate differently. That doesn't mean one is less capable than the other. Even with an adapted lens from a different brand, Sony's newest AF systems are still capable of tracking fast objects like BIF. You just have to use the system properly. I see so many people fighting against the system, trying to force it to work the way they want it to, rather than working with it the way it was designed. That doesn't just go for Canon fans using a Sony for the first time, it goes for Sony fans using a Canon, or Nikon fans using a Sony, etc. If you fight against the design of the system, of course it's going to bomb. However if you learn how it works and work with it's design, whole different story.

YES!

This is why a "standard test" for AF is a bad idea. Different systems work differently....

Ding! Ding!

Although...did someone actually try to come up with a standardized test for AF?

I'd use a tunnel of horrors:
- low light,
- needing quick focus
- on quick moving (jump-scare-type) objects

Not even Canon does "well" in such a scenario...even with a huge 600mm f/4 lens. Every camera's AF system is going to suffer miserably in that situation.

But that isn't really what I think Don means by a standardized AF test.

 

[ritholtz]

It is not related to this subject. DXO is very generous in giving their older versions of dxo optics pro for free. You can get dxo optics pro 9.5 for free. Nice alternative if you are stuck with DPP.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

The 5D Mark IV tracking works a bit differently that the previous bodies in that the RGB metering system can recognize objects and works with the AF to help track that subject. The 5D mark IV and the 1D X II are in a class of their own in the AF category. My first shoot was at the Reno Air Races and I could see the difference from previous years of shooting the same thing under the same conditions.

 

[Sporgon]

If the DXO scores were based on native resolution rather than reducing to 8 mp the 5D IV would score much higher. Probably one of the highest in fact.

 

[jrista]

The 5D Mark IV tracking works a bit differently that the previous bodies in that the RGB metering system can recognize objects and works with the AF to help track that subject. The 5D mark IV and the 1D X II are in a class of their own in the AF category. My first shoot was at the Reno Air Races and I could see the difference from previous years of shooting the same thing under the same conditions.

Nikon's AF system has been doing the same for over a decade... I'd say that means the 5D IV and 1D X II just join all the Nikon bodies with 3D full color subject recognition and tracking that originally created that class... Canon's iTR is excellent, don't get me wrong, but it definitely isn't something brand new that Canon pioneered...Nikon was ahead of them (I also don't believe that Canon's AF system uses subject distance information the same way Nikon's does...)

 

[ritholtz]

The 5D Mark IV tracking works a bit differently that the previous bodies in that the RGB metering system can recognize objects and works with the AF to help track that subject. The 5D mark IV and the 1D X II are in a class of their own in the AF category. My first shoot was at the Reno Air Races and I could see the difference from previous years of shooting the same thing under the same conditions.

Nikon's AF system has been doing the same for over a decade... I'd say that means the 5D IV and 1D X II just join all the Nikon bodies with 3D full color subject recognition and tracking that originally created that class... Canon's iTR is excellent, don't get me wrong, but it definitely isn't something brand new that Canon pioneered...Nikon was ahead of them (I also don't believe that Canon's AF system uses subject distance information the same way Nikon's does...)

I thought Canon is the first one to do this iTR tracking with 1DX. Nikon continue adding these feature to lot of bodies. Canon somehow doesn't add it lower end models.

 

[jrista]

The 5D Mark IV tracking works a bit differently that the previous bodies in that the RGB metering system can recognize objects and works with the AF to help track that subject. The 5D mark IV and the 1D X II are in a class of their own in the AF category. My first shoot was at the Reno Air Races and I could see the difference from previous years of shooting the same thing under the same conditions.

Nikon's AF system has been doing the same for over a decade... I'd say that means the 5D IV and 1D X II just join all the Nikon bodies with 3D full color subject recognition and tracking that originally created that class... Canon's iTR is excellent, don't get me wrong, but it definitely isn't something brand new that Canon pioneered...Nikon was ahead of them (I also don't believe that Canon's AF system uses subject distance information the same way Nikon's does...)

I thought Canon is the first one to do this iTR tracking with 1DX. Nikon continue adding these feature to lot of bodies. Canon somehow doesn't add it lower end models.

Nikon was using an RGB metering sensor and subject recognition a very long time ago. They had their SRS, or Scene Recognition System, as far back as 2007 at least, nearly a decade ago. I actually believe it was employed before then, but I cannot find references at the moment. The 1D X did not hit until 2012.

EDIT:

It looks like it was in 2007 when Nikon first started using RGB metering and SRS with their AF systems:

http://www.nikon.com/news/2007/0823_08.htm

 

[ritholtz]

The 5D Mark IV tracking works a bit differently that the previous bodies in that the RGB metering system can recognize objects and works with the AF to help track that subject. The 5D mark IV and the 1D X II are in a class of their own in the AF category. My first shoot was at the Reno Air Races and I could see the difference from previous years of shooting the same thing under the same conditions.

Nikon's AF system has been doing the same for over a decade... I'd say that means the 5D IV and 1D X II just join all the Nikon bodies with 3D full color subject recognition and tracking that originally created that class... Canon's iTR is excellent, don't get me wrong, but it definitely isn't something brand new that Canon pioneered...Nikon was ahead of them (I also don't believe that Canon's AF system uses subject distance information the same way Nikon's does...)

I thought Canon is the first one to do this iTR tracking with 1DX. Nikon continue adding these feature to lot of bodies. Canon somehow doesn't add it lower end models.

Nikon was using an RGB metering sensor and subject recognition a very long time ago. They had their SRS, or Scene Recognition System, as far back as 2007 at least, nearly a decade ago. I actually believe it was employed before then, but I cannot find references at the moment. The 1D X did not hit until 2012.

EDIT:

It looks like it was in 2007 when Nikon first started using RGB metering and SRS with their AF systems:

http://www.nikon.com/news/2007/0823_08.htm

Thanks Jrista. 1DX is the first camera body with iTR. Then they went cold on this feature until 7d2. Nikon is pushing this functionality aggressively into lower end models. Canon skipped this in 80d.

 

[raptor3x]

Nikon's AF system has been doing the same for over a decade... I'd say that means the 5D IV and 1D X II just join all the Nikon bodies with 3D full color subject recognition and tracking that originally created that class... Canon's iTR is excellent, don't get me wrong, but it definitely isn't something brand new that Canon pioneered...Nikon was ahead of them (I also don't believe that Canon's AF system uses subject distance information the same way Nikon's does...)

One of the biggest criticisms of Canon's iTR tracking since it was released on the 1DX has been that it relies too much on distance information whereas the Nikon system seems to lean on that to a much lesser degree in 3D tracking mode.

 

[jrista]

Thanks Jrista. 1DX is the first camera body with iTR. Then they went cold on this feature until 7d2. Nikon is pushing this functionality aggressively into lower end models. Canon skipped this in 80d.

Sure. My point is, iTR is not something newfangled and innovative...Nikon had the same technology years before Canon implemented it into the 1D X. The 1D X was just the first time that Canon ever employed something similar, where full scene information from a color metering sensor was used to help the AF system.