Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Being Tested by Photographers

[Dekaner]

Hoping for external 4K recording at 60 fps, 10 bit. Then too, C-Log would be nice.

I sincerely doubt it. That would eat into their higher-end video rigs.

 

[Dekaner]

can not see the 5D4 trumping the 1D2 on too many things, some thing has to give, my question is what?

Frame rate: 7 fps vs. 14; Autofocus won't be as good; High ISO performance won't be as good because of the 24mp sensor instead of the 1D's 20 mp; smaller buffer; weathersealing won't be as good; SD/CFast slots instead of CF/CFast. Probably some other differences as well.

This is spot on.

 

[ahsanford]

Really hope it has CFast and CF card slots and same 5D III battery...

Same here, as someone who specialises in landscapes I have no need for faster card speeds. If compatible I'd be more than happy to continue using my CF cards in the 5D Mk IV

I have to ask: if you are specializing in landscapes, one would think the 5DS rigs would be a better call than the 5D4, unless I suppose you are shooting astro landscapes.

Are you expecting the 5D4 to have some massive DR improvement that be worth passing up all that 5DS detail for? (This isn't a wind up, I'm just curious.)

- A

 

[ahsanford]

can not see the 5D4 trumping the 1D2 on too many things, some thing has to give, my question is what?

Areas where the 5D4 will trump the 1DX2 -- they aren't that many or all that amazing, but here's my guess:

Certain: Less cost

Certain: Cheaper accessories, a larger accessories third party ecosystem, etc.

Certain: Less size/weight

Likely: a new/'first' feature that isn't on the 1DX 2 --> remember the 5D3 gave us silent shutter and in-camera HDR mode, the 7D2 gave us anti-flicker mode an in-camera timelapse mode, the 80D 70D gave us DPAF, etc.

Possibly: Wifi onboard

Unlikely: Radio master onboard (I'm dreaming, but if this is *the* wedding photographer's camera, that's an awesome way to sell it)

Unlikely: A tilty-flippy screen (...if you call that 'trumping' the 1DX2, which most would say yes but there are still some holdouts)

- A

 

[rrcphoto]

Really hope it has CFast and CF card slots and same 5D III battery...

Same here, as someone who specialises in landscapes I have no need for faster card speeds. If compatible I'd be more than happy to continue using my CF cards in the 5D Mk IV

I have to ask: if you are specializing in landscapes, one would think the 5DS rigs would be a better call than the 5D4, unless I suppose you are shooting astro landscapes.

Are you expecting the 5D4 to have some massive DR improvement that be worth passing up all that 5DS detail for? (This isn't a wind up, I'm just curious.)

- A

yeah, I hear you on this. 5D IV will be a "landscape" camera, of course it can do them.

Personally I'm holding out more for a 6D Mark II with a fully articulating screen and all the communication goodies (wifi, gps, nfc) in a smaller more compact camera as a "go to" landscape camera.

or the SL1x full frame mirrorless with EVF and flippy tilt screen.

 

[CarlMillerPhoto]

Hoping for external 4K recording at 60 fps, 10 bit. Then too, C-Log would be nice.

I sincerely doubt it. That would eat into their higher-end video rigs.

The 1dx II doesn't even do 4k HDMI output. No way will it have 10 bit. It also surely won't have C-Log unless Canon has turned over a new leaf with regard to how their product line is stacked.

I expect the Mark IV to have identical video specs as the 1dxII with the exception of 4k 60fps (its inclusion would surprise me as no other sub $6k camera offers that). I think it'll have the DPAF features with the touch screen though.

It's the 4k data rate and compression that I'm most curious about. The 400mbps motion jpeg just isn't practical, especially for event shooters. Canon needs to get the 4k data rate down to 100mbps somehow. We'll see if their Digic processing softens up the image (as it does with HD) or if it can keep things looking nice as their DV processors can do (as in the C100, C300, etc.).

 

[ahsanford]

For some perspective on this, it's interesting to look back at the 1DX vs. 5D3 comparison as a possible harbinger of things to come -- this is from TDP:

Canon EOS 1D X Feature Advantages Over the EOS 5D Mark III

More advanced metering system (100k pixel, 252 zone RGB vs 63 zone iFCL)
EOS iTR AF (Intelligent Tracking and Recognition AF including facial recognition)
Frame rate is 2x faster (12 fps vs. 6 fps)
Higher frame burst rating (RAW: 38 vs. 18 rated / 54 vs. 33 tested)
AF point-linked spot metering and Multi-spot metering
Faster AF driven by more powerful battery pack (with select Canon L lenses)
EV 0-20 Metering range (vs. EV 1-20)
Higher native ISO settings available (51200 vs. 25600)
Higher expanded ISO settings available (204800 vs. 102400)
Less high ISO noise
Faster X-sync speed (1/250 vs. 1/200)
Dual DIGIC 5+ processors plus DIGIC 4 processor dedicated to AE functions
(5D III has a single DIGIC 5+ processor and a non-specified AF-dedicated processor)
Higher battery life rating (1,120 vs. 950 shots)
Higher shutter durability rating (400,000 vs. 150,000 cycles)
Higher viewfinder magnification (.76x vs .71x)
Shorter viewfinder blackout time
Viewfinder provides more nose relief from LCD (less nose spots on LCD)
Has a viewfinder shutter
Built-in Ethernet Port
More advanced self-cleaning sensor
Better Weather Sealing
Built in vertical grip
Accepts optional focus screens
7 LCD brightness levels (vs. 3)
More custom functions (31 vs. 13)

Canon EOS 5D Mark III Feature Advantages Over the Canon EOS 1D X

Price (a big advantage for most of us)
Higher resolution (22.3 mp vs 18.1 mp)
In-camera HDR mode
Headphone jack
Lighter weight with lighter battery
Compatible with Canon wireless infrared remotes such as the RC-6
Much quieter silent mode

You don't have to know too much about cameras to see how comically Canon tips the scales in this head to head, and I expect the same here. I still contend Canon will slide in a major new/'first' feature, like every better than entry level camera gets:

5D3 --> first with silent shutter
6D --> first with -3EV AF point (is my memory correct?)
70D --> first with DPAF
7D2 --> first with anti-flicker

- A

 

[Tiderace]

While typing this another member stated it would likely NOT have HDMI nor 10 bit. I am with them on their logic. It is a total shame. This was their opportunity to not just catch up but move ahead. I cannot figure out their logic. Genuinely, they have such capable people.

I have seen somewhere that it is rumored NOT to have 4K HDMI out and that the 4K is only 8 bit not 10. I was very much hoping that Canon would make the leap to ProRes 422 10 bit and provide HDMI clean out WITH audio finally. The really big change occurring in both photography and videography is dynamic range and low light capability with holding noise at reasonable levels. With regards to video, 4K television is an industry sell mostly since we all know you cannot even see a difference between HD and 4K until your screen is 72 inches and you sit back like 12 feet OMG! That said, HDR, High Dynamic Range television is very noticeable to most everyone side by side with even the best television next to it. And we now need cameras that can shoot photos and video to provide it and for video that means 10 bit not 8, monitors to see it, and software to work with it.

C'mon Cannon Please!!! I love you give it to us, let me stay with you LOL

 

[ahsanford]

yeah, I hear you on this. 5D IV will be a "landscape" camera, of course it can do them.

The 5D4 will do it all, but if you are a specialist in landscapes -- like if it's the source of your income 90% of the time and it sits on a tripod, I'm hard pressed to think of a reason you'd choose the 5D4 over the 5DS unless that sensor is so good it fundamentally changes the game (which is unlikely, I think we'd all admit) ...hence my original question to bitm2007.

(I expect the 5D4 to improve the DR, but not to some dreamlike level where the ND grads can be retired.)

- A

 

[CanonGuy]

Unfortunately I never record video with DSLR so these are useless for me (I'm sure some of you will find these very helpful though. So kudos to Canon). I'm a photographer and I need the 5D IV to be comparable to competition (canon is lagging like 2 years from competition with sensor tech). Step up in that area and take my money. Simple as that. Otherwise my next body will be the first non Canon body in my life. Ball is in your court. Just play it nice.

 

[ahsanford]

Unfortunately I never record video with DSLR so these are useless for me (I'm sure some of you will find these very helpful though. So kudos to Canon). I'm a photographer and I need the 5D IV to be comparable to competition (canon is lagging like 2 years from competition with sensor tech). Step up in that area and take my money. Simple as that. Otherwise my next body will be the first non Canon body in my life. Ball is in your court. Just play it nice.

The question is this: will Canon succeed with the 5D4 if this is it's value proposition:

First 4K FF non-gripped camera

Incremental boost to fps, MP, DR (for the purpose of conversation: 24MP x 7 fps x 1 more stop DR)

All the tech the 5D3 didn't have last time around: DPAF, anti-flicker, expanded f/8 teleconverter use, -3EV AF points

All the things that the 5D3 pooched are fixed --> black servo AF spots, no manual focusing screen changeout, etc.

Price: $3500 (give or take)

I am not a 'sensor is lacking therefore I am leaving!' person at all, but even I would contend that it needs a bit more than that to set the market alight.

- A

 

[Billybob]

yeah, I hear you on this. 5D IV will be a "landscape" camera, of course it can do them.

The 5D4 will do it all, but if you are a specialist in landscapes -- like if it's the source of your income 90% of the time and it sits on a tripod, I'm hard pressed to think of a reason you'd choose the 5D4 over the 5DS unless that sensor is so good it fundamentally changes the game (which is unlikely, I think we'd all admit) ...hence my original question to bitm2007.

(I expect the 5D4 to improve the DR, but not to some dreamlike level where the ND grads can be retired.)

- A

Improved DR and a legitimate ISO 64 like the D810 would make the 5D4 a compelling landscape choice over the 5DS. Frankly 24MP is plenty of resolution for landscape. More than that matters mostly if the photographer crops a lot. I shoot both Nikon and Canon, and frankly the only significant landscape advantage that the D810 has over the D750 is ISO 64. I only see the additional resolution when I crop. However, having ISO64 available for landscape provides an almost medium format quality image.

I'm optimistic that the DR will be significantly improved especially if the IV uses the sensor technology employed in the 80D. RAW files from the 80D are far more robust and flexible than any Canon camera I've used. In a full frame sensor, this technology should be even better.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Traditionally, the 5D series has only a single Digic processor. Where as the 1D series has a dual Digic processor of the same generation. A dual digic processor usually has the same processing throughput as the next generation's single Digic processor. So a dual Digic 5+ is pretty similar to a Singe Digic 6. I'm assuming that this formula still works for the new Digic processors. So regardless of a Dual 6+ or a Single 7...it's pretty much the same.
Id we take the specs of the 1DxII, we get 20.2 x 14 fps = 280mbits/s. If we take that through put and dial in the new 5D's rumoured fps...we get 280 / 8 = 35mp. If we assume 7 fps (more likely) we get 40mp...so we have lots of room for Canon to underclock and under serve us as customers and dial in 7fps at 34mp.
Canon can then cut this cake any way they wish...take 280 / 5 fps and we get 56mp...which is pretty much the 5D3S/R...so I doubt that Canon will change that camera to a 5D4 S/R any time soon unless they have access to a dual Digic 7 chip...which could in theory allow 420 mbits/s...a future IDXIII with 26mp and 16fps? Or maybe 52mp @ 8fps. Or 84mp @ 5fps.
So what am i getting at here? Well, the mega pixel race has been proportionate to the internal processor and not the sensor. It's the processor that allows the sensor to run at those specs and though put of data. It's the processor that allows the camera to move all that data around the camera at that resolution and speed. So Canon now have the ability to make pretty much any camera spec they choose...Do we need anything higher than 52mp? Seriously? So then the only advancement left is the fps rate at that resolution. I can easily see that the next generation of 5D (5?) will unify the 5Dx and 5DxS/R cameras into one unit again.
Looking back over the 5D's history...it's amazing to see how well it's matured and what a fine camera it's become.

 

[Deleted member 68328]

The question I really wonder is: Will there be significant new tech inside? Improving mega pixel count, a bit dynamic range, etc. is welcome but not thrilling.
What about the implementation of all the patterns that emerged a few months ago? Foveon-like sensor, shifting sensor? Something to improve AF accuracy/simplify AFMA?

It's been years expecting a change similar to switching from mechanical HDD to SSD...

Maybe Canon would not introduce too many new tech in the 1DX II as this camera is not meant to test new tech. But 5D IV might just be that camera. What do you think? When will come the new tech that has been rumored for so long?

 

[bitm2007]

Quote
Really hope it has CFast and CF card slots and same 5D III battery...

Same here, as someone who specialises in landscapes I have no need for faster card speeds. If compatible I'd be more than happy to continue using my CF cards in the 5D Mk IV

I have to ask: if you are specializing in landscapes, one would think the 5DS rigs would be a better call than the 5D4, unless I suppose you are shooting astro landscapes.

Are you expecting the 5D4 to have some massive DR improvement that be worth passing up all that 5DS detail for? (This isn't a wind up, I'm just curious.)

- A

I rarely print bigger than 15x10 inch, and have never printed larger than A2. So the MP count of the 5DSR is overkill for me, plus I regularly shoot high contrast scene's and astro landscapes. So a MK4 with improved DR and better high ISO performance would be much better suited to my needs.

 

[GuyF]

I expect the Mark IV to have identical video specs as the 1dxII with the exception of 4k 60fps (its inclusion would surprise me as no other sub $6k camera offers that).

The 1DX2 has a large enough body that it can accommodate the plumbing to dissipate the heat from 4k 60fps, would full HD at 120fps produce similar heat and therefore need a larger body than current 5-series?

Could the 5D4 have a built-in ND filter for video (just something I overheard in a shop)?

 

[CanoKnight]

4K television is an industry sell mostly since we all know you cannot even see a difference between HD and 4K until your screen is 72 inches and you sit back like 12 feet OMG

Most video today is consumed not on TV but on YouTube, and some on other sites like Vimeo. The difference between 4k and 1080p , actually even 1440 and 1080p is stark. Do a search on 4k video on youtube, preferably taken with a quality camera like Panasonic GH4 or 1Dc or 1DX2 and switch between 1080p and 4k (2160 or 1440). You will see the difference.

 

[HurtinMinorKey]

The fps second and the resolution won't matter if it turns out to be the intentionally mushy compressed crap that came out of the 5D3.

 

[unfocused]

I am not a 'sensor is lacking therefore I am leaving!' person at all, but even I would contend that it needs a bit more than that to set the market alight.

- A

I would add to your list: additional f8 autofocus points. This is certain to be a feature of the 5DIV, in part because Canon needs it to keep the 100-400 competitive with low-cost alternatives. I also believe it will be a big motivator for a certain subset of buyers.

 

[PureClassA]

I'm already sold. I have the new 1DX II for this weekend from the crew at lens rentals. Can't wait for the 5D4. Preorder the instant I can.