Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

[YuengLinger]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

This kind of makes me feel happier about my purchase of the 5DIV (body only).

Which may be part of Canon's strategy. Still, if they are doing this to "protect" the 5DIV sales, how are they competing against other companies? I know, criticizing Canon's actions here is a fool's game, because the chanting response is "Canon is winning."

But this, coupled with last year's release of the abysmal ef 24-105mm f/4 IS II, doesn't seem the move of a company that plans to keep winning.

 

[tomscott]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Or maybe, canon is making some room for new FF camera between 6d and 5d. Maybe FF mirrorless with beter sensor than 6d mk2.
If not, i really dont understand this move considering the price/performance of competition. And the quality of crop cameras such 80d.

It wouldn't make sense to make a product worse than its predecessor to make room for a mirrorless that will most probably share the same specifications but be a smaller body and again bought by different people.

It is an odd decision to take two steps forward with the other bodies and 3 back with the 6DMKII.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Competitors started surpassing Canon in low ISO DR way back in 2009. What's happened to Canon's market share since then? It's grown, to the point where now they have nearly 50% of the ILC market.

I don't doubt that you're right about that, but where do you get such data? I've tried to find some good sources on ILC maket shares for Canon, Sony and the like but failed.

IDC periodically publishes reports on the ILC industry, although they're expensive to buy. Once in a while, parts of those reports are made available in news stories about the industry (e.g. WSJ, Bloomberg, etc.).

CIPA tracks global ILC production and shipments for the industry, and although they don't provide a breakdown by manufacturer, the quarterly/annual financial reporting for various companies provides data on sales volume that, combined with the CIPA data, allows reasonable inferences to be made.

 

[tomscott]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

This kind of makes me feel happier about my purchase of the 5DIV (body only).

Which may be part of Canon's strategy. Still, if they are doing this to "protect" the 5DIV sales, how are they competing against other companies? I know, criticizing Canon's actions here is a fool's game, because the chanting response is "Canon is winning."

But this, coupled with last year's release of the abysmal ef 24-105mm f/4 IS II, doesn't seem the move of a company that plans to keep winning.

I cant see them making a camera to purposely push people to another camera. Even tho parts have been borrowed the R&D and the production of another sensor costs money.

If that was the case they wouldn't have made a new 6D at all.

 

[testthewest]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Very well done Canon. Very well done! It's amazing that you can't even match a feature that other cameras had 3/4 years ago. Very well done indeed.

Canon took 4 years to produce this?! Recycling af and dpaf systems from old bodies and call it a day? Simply wow! I skipped getting 5D4 as it's just a meh upgrade for me (I don't shoot video and don't care about the video hum dums on 5D4). Now seems like I'll have to skip 6D2 too! I'll probably hold onto my current 5d2 and 6d bodies one more year and slowly transition into something that has a great sensor.

I know fan boys will come here to roast me. To you guys, I have used 'other' cameras with sigma art/Metabone adapter. The af speed and accuracy was enough for me. Don't care about sppedlite options. So I don't think I'll miss out on anything after switch and gain something that canon deprived me of because of their stubbornness and incapable engineers.

I wonder when canon will stop using their pre historic sensors and adapt sensors from someone else that's leaps and bounds ahead! Or at least hire some capable engineers and make a sensor that's at least playing catch up game well! Such a disgrace.

With all pro bodies updates out (1dx2, 5d4 and 6d2) and next ones at least 3 years away, I think Canon took the laziness too far. Hopefully we'll (except blind fan boys) answer with our wallet. Good luck

The 6dii is indeed disappointing for me, too, so far. Regarding the 5div, which we use along Sony, that is a really great camera with a great sensor holding its own against the A9 or even A7rii (which is only marginally better in real life). So why not trying out the 5div?

You realize that you are comparing with a7rii which is 2 year old right?

As I mentioned, I don't shoot video and the incremental minute updates on 5d4 wasn't anything special to me. I would much rather support another company who's trying better with my wallet.

Why not? Canon haters compare Nikon D500 with Canon 7DMkII which is 3 years old...

Glad to see you ain't any better than the people you try to redicule.

 

[snoke]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

...
I'm no apologist -- and I still don't get this decision -- but Canon has proven time and time again that they see the market better than we do.
...

Who is Canon's target market for this camera?

Those that have already bought Canon. They've already bought into the "Canon dream". This camera isn't going to lure anyone from the Nikon or Sony camps. Why wouldn't Canon want to do that? There are more people that have bought into the Canon "dream" with APS-C cameras that are an easier sell than there are other brand owners that Canon would have to convert. The only problem Canon might have here is 80D owners but more than likely those cameras are "new enough" that the owners won't yet be thinking about upgrading to full frame so the 6D Mark II doesn't have to be better than it.

Right now Canon will just be hoping that it can get all those that might switch brands to jump on the 6D Mark II before Nikon/Sony launch their successors to the D620/D750/A7II.

This is a defensive product move by Canon, not an aggressive one.

Why defensive? With a 50% market share, they've got more to lose than they have to gain. Getting 1% of existing Canon owners to buy a 6D Mark II is a larger population than converting 1% of Nikon owners (for example.)

 

[bereninga]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

If you've purchased the 6D a while ago, it seems to be an even better value now. IMO, I think Canon will need to ditch the 6D series after this one. There'll be too much overlap w/ the 5D series unless they can push their 5D even more.

So the 6D line is useless or does it overlap with the (far from useless) 5D line too much? Which is it? I'm legitimately confused with that comment.

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse. I meant to say that because there'll too much overlap in the future, the 6D series I think will struggle. I'm no expert and don't claim to be. That's just my opinion.

Other than DPAF, objectively, what other unique features does Canon have for the future of their bodies?

I believe it's called the EF mount, and the command of first-party AF routines that come with it.

True, this is def a big one.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Or maybe, canon is making some room for new FF camera between 6d and 5d. Maybe FF mirrorless with beter sensor than 6d mk2.
If not, i really dont understand this move considering the price/performance of competition. And the quality of crop cameras such 80d.

I don't think Canon will pull a "5.5D" in-betweener line, but it's an interesting thought.

The 6D2 right now is sitting somewhere between the 6D/D610's relatively stripped down 'entry' FF position and the 50-50 of entry/pro that the D750 offers. So the 6D2 indeed 'moved upmarket' as it alleged it would in prior rumors, but just barely:

Resolution: Entry (24 has been the standard for that with Sony and Nikon)
Max shutter: Entry
Sync speed: Entry
AF: Between Entry and Pro
Burst: Pro (only 0.5 behind the 5D4, by far the biggest positive surprise of this rig)
JPG buffer: Entry
RAW buffer: Pro
Onboard tech: Pro (Communications, anti-flicker, GPS, etc.)
Card slots: Entry
Video: Entry (there's more to it than that, but no 4k)
Build Quality: Need reviews, but presumed to be Entry (for a $2k FF rig, this is no Rebel)

Note that I'm leaving the tilty-flippy + DPAF + touch out of this, as that's neither pro nor entry -- it's just the future of almost every Canon rig. But then again, I thought on-chip ADC was, too.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

But this, coupled with last year's release of the abysmal ef 24-105mm f/4 IS II, doesn't seem the move of a company that plans to keep winning.

Fair, but name me another disappointment of an EF lens Canon has released in the last few years. I'm hard-pressed to think of one. Meanwhile, we now have:

11-24L
35L II
16-35 f/4L IS (the landscaping lens we've needed for SO long)
16-35 f/2.8L III
100-400L II
non-L 70-300 (quite nice for the dollar)
(And a world's first f/1.4 IS lens is around the corner with the impending new 85L)

Meanwhile, on the glass front, Sony is pumping out > $2k products that are only FBW and Nikon has been a bit hit (200-500 f/5.6 VR) or miss with some exotic Ferrari like glass (105 f/1.4) and some head-scratchers (28 f/1.4, which I'd love but it's awfully niche). I'll take Canon's FF lens output any day of the week over those two.

- A

 

[Joules]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Other than DPAF, objectively, what other unique features does Canon have for the future of their bodies?

I believe it's called the EF mount, and the command of first-party AF routines that come with it.

True, this is def a big one.

I do wonder, is it really? The current third party options are great for the most part and many are probably closer to the price point the typical 6DII buyer is comfortable with than the native Canon ones. The specialty stuff like the TS-E and MP-E aren't likely to be interesting for the majority of 6DII shooters, are they? Besides that and a lot of expensive big whites, what's not to be had on the side where the grass seems greener?

I'm actually curious, because the point is brought up so often as a pro Canon argument but never truly convinced me.

Edit: ahsanford named a good list, but the 16-35mm 4.0L IS is the only one that would actually fit my personal hobby photograpphy budget I think. Maybe I'm just not as financially up to the task as most are though.

 

[Takingshots]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

I am in the same camp waiting to buy the 6D mkii but now the news with the specs are disappointing for a 2,000 camera. I can't afford a 5D mk iv. Is there a alt camera at this price range with an adapter to go with my Canon L glass lens with respect to its operation without being laggy, slow etc? Maybe Canon will update their software to improve the DR and somehow adapt 4K into the camera....

 

[snoke]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Of course, still probably the best sensor overall for FF cameras.

What sensor do you mean here?

The A9 fares worse than the A7rii and the 5div is clearly on par according to Bill Claffs data: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20III,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Sony%20ILCE-9(ES) , better at low ISOs and minimally worse at high ISOs (not relevant in real life in my opinion).

This is a better graph:
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20III,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Sony%20ILCE-9(ES

Don't know what Nikon were thinking with the D5.

A PDR of 8 (256 levels of red or green or blue) is JPEG quality but some monitors and TVs will not do full 8 bits per channel (RGB). Once the PDR is under 6 (64 levels), your quality starts to become seriously compromised. Personally, I prefer to keep my ISO at levels where (using that graph), PDR is >= 7.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

This is disappointing news.

If you've purchased the 6D a while ago, it seems to be an even better value now. IMO, I think Canon will need to ditch the 6D series after this one. There'll be too much overlap w/ the 5D series unless they can push their 5D even more.

Other than DPAF, objectively, what other unique features does Canon have for the future of their bodies?

I already purchased an M6 for the video and DPAF need and I also get the extra reach and other benefits. Yeah, it sucks to carry two bodies, but the M6 is small enough and is good for smaller events.

I'll save up for the 5DIV in the meantime.

I'd ask, other than FF mirrorless, objectively, what other unique features does Sony have for the future of their bodies? You can get their sensors in other bodies, you can get crop mirrorless with peaking and zebras and whatnot elsewhere, and the sensor quality gap is narrowing (6D2 aside). What does Sony offer that is unique? Maybe I just don't know, but I'm not specifically aware of anything that can't be gotten elsewhere.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

It is an odd decision to take two steps forward with the other bodies and 3 back with the base ISO DR of the 6DMKII.

Corrected above.

Tom, I always respect your posts, but that's glossing over the bigger picture quite a bit.

Canon brought a ton of much-needed love to the brand -- AF overhaul + DPAF + tilty-flippy + touchscreen + communications + 6.5 fps -- but apparently left the car in neutral on something we all expected would happen.

I would say on aggregate the 6D2 met reasonable expectations spec/feature-wise minus the odd surprise. It will be a fine rig and it will sell well.

- A

 

[testthewest]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

If you really want an articulating touchscreen with DPAF, save some money and get a T7i or SL2. Same IQ if IQ is defined solely as base ISO DR with no consideration of small DOF opportunity, high ISO performance and availability of high quality UWA lenses, but much cheaper.

There. Fixed that for you.

- A

Well, you have to admit: It is a bit sad that you have to resort to this. This camera is alot more expensive and probably everybody would have been happy with a sensor like the 80D. Also I don't understand your arguement about the lenses: Can't you put EF lenses on canon crop bodys?

Anyway: IQ of a camera sensor is certainly not defined by lenses or DOP (which has nothing to do with the quality of the sensor). That leaves us with better high ISO performance. I had hoped for more and I am think now hard if I cancel my preorder. (as I was foolishly expecting a sensor at least as good as the 80D)

 

[YuengLinger]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

But this, coupled with last year's release of the abysmal ef 24-105mm f/4 IS II, doesn't seem the move of a company that plans to keep winning.

Fair, but name me another disappointment of an EF lens Canon has released in the last few years. I'm hard-pressed to think of one. Meanwhile, we now have:

11-24L
35L II
16-35 f/4L IS (the landscaping lens we've needed for SO long)
16-35 f/2.8L III
100-400L II
non-L 70-300 (quite nice for the dollar)
(And a world's first f/1.4 IS lens is around the corner with the impending new 85L)

Meanwhile, on the glass front, Sony is pumping out > $2k products that are only FBW and Nikon has been a bit hit (200-500 f/5.6 VR) or miss with some exotic Ferrari like glass (105 f/1.4) and some head-scratchers (28 f/1.4, which I'd love but it's awfully niche). I'll take Canon's FF lens output any day of the week over those two.

- A

Good, point, but I think this forum largely overlooks the 24-105mm L, failing to see its widespread use among portrait and landscape photographers. And anybody buying the current model as a first L is bound to wonder what the big deal is about the L series.

I'm still seeing, in almost every issue of Professional Photographer Magazine and Outdoor Photography the original 24-105mm as a staple among featured images.

And like the 6DII's sensor possibly protecting sales of higher end bodies, the 24-105 II's disappointing performance generated speculation that Canon is protecting other L series lenses by not releasing a lens that does too much at too low a price.

Those other lenses you've listed are winners. But, again, the 24-105, in my opinion, shapes more photographers' impressions of Canon glass than this forum acknowledges.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

But this, coupled with last year's release of the abysmal ef 24-105mm f/4 IS II, doesn't seem the move of a company that plans to keep winning.

Fair, but name me another disappointment of an EF lens Canon has released in the last few years. I'm hard-pressed to think of one. Meanwhile, we now have:

11-24L
35L II
16-35 f/4L IS (the landscaping lens we've needed for SO long)
16-35 f/2.8L III
100-400L II
non-L 70-300 (quite nice for the dollar)
(And a world's first f/1.4 IS lens is around the corner with the impending new 85L)

Meanwhile, on the glass front, Sony is pumping out > $2k products that are only FBW and Nikon has been a bit hit (200-500 f/5.6 VR) or miss with some exotic Ferrari like glass (105 f/1.4) and some head-scratchers (28 f/1.4, which I'd love but it's awfully niche). I'll take Canon's FF lens output any day of the week over those two.

- A

And there are people who swear by the 24-105ii, no matter how odd it seems to you and me. And your list is just the most recent releases - it leaves off some other stunners that are still current (including the 70-200/2.8ii and the 24-70/2.8ii). The images blew me away immediately with those, and my friends were quickly happy to see "the big camera" at races after seeing the first batch. And I'm just an amateur hack.

When I got back into photography, I decided to go with the company with the great lenses instead of the great sensors. I'm feeling very good about that decision. One of these day's I'll take a stab at selling my 5D3 and get a 5D4.

 

[Ozarker]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

The 7D is at the top of the crop-sensor line, so purchasing it doesn't endanger sales of higher-end models.

What makes you think the higher end models are more profitable and must be protected? Price? That has nothing to do with the profit margin. Why is it people assume Canon is always trying to drive people into a higher price point?

Plus, the 7D is a sports camera for which low-ISO DR is a secondary, at best, concern. Therefore, there is no reason for Canon to intentionally cripple the 7D's DR.

Which cameras does Canon "intentionally cripple?" Differentiating one price point from another has nothing to do with "crippling a camera". Don't know why people want to call this crippling. Is a Ford Focus crippled because it is not as big or powerful as a top end Taurus? No. It is made for a different market and has a different price point for that reason.

The 6D, by contrast, was eating into 5D sales. What Canon found was that there are a ton of photographers who care only about getting the best IQ available.

Where did you get the sales data and where do you get the idea that the 6D was eating into 5D sales since Canon doesn't make that public?

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

I do wonder, is it really? The current third party options are great for the most part and many are probably closer to the price point the typical 6DII buyer is comfortable with than the native Canon ones. The specialty stuff like the TS-E and MP-E aren't likely to be interesting for the majority of 6DII shooters, are they? Besides that and a lot of expensive big whites, what's not to be had on the side where the grass seems greener?

I'm actually curious, because the point is brought up so often as a pro Canon argument but never truly convinced me.

My take on EF: Choice. Canon has the most breadth of options, depth of price points at those options, and they have some truly unique glass you cannot use elsewhere.

Nikon certainly has a few standout pieces of kit, but they are slightly underweight offerings-wise and price-point-options-wise to Canon.

Sony I just roll my eyes at. I will not spike the AF punch with an 3rd party adapter, and their first-party GM stuff is FBW and overpriced (presumably due to their limited production volumes in comparison to CaNikon).

I'm not going to stand out on a ledge and say that they have the best of everything, but on aggregate, they have everything I need (save one lens I've been harping on for a few days now :) at numerous price points. It's EF for me.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

I'd ask, other than FF mirrorless, objectively, what other unique features does Sony have for the future of their bodies? You can get their sensors in other bodies, you can get crop mirrorless with peaking and zebras and whatnot elsewhere, and the sensor quality gap is narrowing (6D2 aside). What does Sony offer that is unique? Maybe I just don't know, but I'm not specifically aware of anything that can't be gotten elsewhere.

Nothing unique, just a useful suite of features:

IBIS
4K (it's totally fine, just wear gloves ;D)
Adapting old glass
Using MF glass handheld through the viewfinder (for those of us who can't change our SLR focusing screens)
Amplifying VF light in dark rooms + the aforementioned MF usage on AF lenses when light is low
The option to keep your body + lens combo small if you want to

It's not for me, but it is for the patient tinkerers out there and the folks who will give their left nut for a better sensor but don't want to fully migrate.

- A