Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

[james75]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Why is anybody surprised at this?

The original 6D was created specifically to mitigate the losses caused by the second hand market being flooded with 5D2s after the 5D3 had been around for a while.
The 6D2 is doing the same job for the 5D3. Now the 5DS/R/4 has been out a while, the second hand market is being flooded with 5D3s. (And even more 5D2s.) The 6D2 is made to address that; offer a new body at a similar price as the second hand units, with a comparable feature set.

This was never going to be a leader in low noise.
This was never going to be a leader in dynamic range.
This was never going to be a leader in colour reproduction.
This was never going to be a leader in AF.
This was never going to be a leader in video.
This was never going to be a leader in durability.

The entire point of the 6D line is to offer a new alternative to a used 5D series. That's it. They're not intended to be anything more. The 6D2 isn't intended to match the 5D4 in image quality, or any other regard. They're just a way for Canon to mitigate the used market. Nothing more, nothing less.


The way some of y'all are talking you'd think you had never seen or heard of Canon before today. They've been doing this for decades. Stop people from buying used by offering a slightly worse but at least brand new alternative at the same price point. They've been doing it ever since the A-1. You're (allegedly) Canon users and fans, y'all should know this by now and see it coming.

the 6d line was created to kill off the secondhand market could be partly right. If they were not intended to compete with each other, then why did the original 6d have a better sensor than the 5d3? I think Canon realized afterwards that putting a better sensor in it was taking a lot of sales away from the 5d3 and have now corrected the problem. Now there is nothing the camera does better.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

In Canon's announcement for the 6DII I found this paragraph:
“After just one day in Yellowstone National Park with the EOS 6D Mark II DSLR Camera, it was clear that dynamic range has greatly improved over its predecessor,” said acclaimed nature photographer and Canon Explorer of Light Adam Jones “ Landscape and nature photographers will be very happy. The new and improved autofocus is way ahead of the previous generation and performed extremely well, even in very low-light situations.”

It looks like Adam Jones lied, doesn't it?

Not categorically.

He might have been shooting around ISO 12,800 to 25,600... :

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

The way some of y'all are talking you'd think you had never seen or heard of Canon before today. They've been doing this for decades. Stop people from buying used by offering a slightly worse but at least brand new alternative at the same price point. They've been doing it ever since the A-1. You're (allegedly) Canon users and fans, y'all should know this by now and see it coming.

Sure, but that implies that 6D2 is clearly worse than the 5D3. You'd have a hell of an arm-wrestle from the forum on that. There is an art to dangling just enough to get people to buy mid-level new instead of top-level used.

So the 5D3 is still a better rig for some folks, but a LOT of people would choose the tilty-flippy + DPAF + touchscreen + wireless options + GPS combo over a few aging pro feature set options on the 5D3.

- A

 

[hbr]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

And from Canon UK:

Dynamic range
The EOS 6D Mark II’s latest CMOS sensor delivers a wide dynamic range, preserving detail in bright highlights and dark shadows for an authentic look and feel. Generous exposure latitude lets you do more with your files in post-production.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

I'd ask, other than FF mirrorless, objectively, what other unique features does Sony have for the future of their bodies? You can get their sensors in other bodies, you can get crop mirrorless with peaking and zebras and whatnot elsewhere, and the sensor quality gap is narrowing (6D2 aside). What does Sony offer that is unique? Maybe I just don't know, but I'm not specifically aware of anything that can't be gotten elsewhere.

Nothing unique, just a useful suite of features:

IBIS
4K (it's totally fine, just wear gloves ;D)
Adapting old glass
Using MF glass handheld through the viewfinder (for those of us who can't change our SLR focusing screens)
Amplifying VF light in dark rooms + the aforementioned MF usage on AF lenses when light is low
The option to keep your body + lens combo small if you want to

It's not for me, but it is for the patient tinkerers out there and the folks who will give their left nut for a better sensor but don't want to fully migrate.

- A

Isn't basically all of that (other than FF sensor) available on m43 and APS-C mirrorless ILCs? That's what I meant about "unique" - those features are all elsewhere.

I said "nothing unique", didn't I? They have great sensors and the ability to do mirrorless things. That's Sony's ballgame. Uniqueness has nothing to do with it.

Want unique? Um... go get a Pentax? Unique doesn't drive the market.

- A

You didn't - the person I responded to did. Bereningia or something like that. That's why I emphasized that word specifically and, in the context, thought you were agreeing with that other poster.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

the 6d line was created to kill off the secondhand market could be partly right. If they were not intended to compete with each other, then why did the original 6d have a better sensor than the 5d3? I think Canon realized afterwards that putting a better sensor in it was taking a lot of sales away from the 5d3 by DXO-reading fundamentalists that believe the 'film' in the camera is more important than everything else about it and have now corrected the problem. Now there is nothing the camera does better.

Corrected that for you. The 5D3 is a comprehensively better camera than the 6D1 on aggregate. Sensor devotees will disagree of course, but the difference even there was marginal. Everywhere else the 5D3 was clearly the better product -- AF, build, grip, controls/wheel/joystick, FPS, dual card, video, etc.

Anyone who thought the 6D1 was better than the 5D3 on aggregate likely had a very pure/simple/specialized need (i.e. astro, landscape ONLY shooters, maaaaybe low light event specialists for that -3 EV center point) for that extra X% sensor improvement or they desperately wanted onboard wifi/GPS.... or the mind wanders if they bought a 6D1 to puff up their chest for the forum community about the purity of their camera-buying priorities. (I kid.)

The 6D1 undoubtedly took some sales from the 5D3, but the general market -- i.e. not. folks. on. forums. -- responded to the 6D1 simply because Canon finally offered a choice between the $1200-1400 7d level camera and a $3500 5D level camera. The mere creation of a not-plutonium-priced FF offering dwarfed any small percentage of people that got a 6D1 expressly because of a fractionally better sensor.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

And from Canon UK:

Dynamic range
The EOS 6D Mark II’s latest CMOS sensor delivers a wide dynamic range, preserving detail in bright highlights and dark shadows for an authentic look and feel. Generous exposure latitude lets you do more with your files in post-production.

That's a 100% valid marketing statement as it laughably has no basis of comparison.

Compared to your cell phone, that statement is spot on.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

You didn't - the person I responded to did. Bereningia or something like that. That's why I emphasized that word specifically and, in the context, thought you were agreeing with that other poster.

Apologies -- missed that.

- A

 

[CanonCams]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

It seems like a lot of people on this forum have elected to spend the extra money on a 5DIV. How does that qualify as a mistake on Canon's part?

I just did that 2 weeks ago, based on initial specs and suggested price it was clear to me that it was worth to own mkIV.

In my case, I bought it before the 6DII had even rumored specs and release date. And I had a learning curve with it, first accepting that ETTR wasn't beneficial, then seeing IQ problems that, fortunately, disappeared after the last firmware update, though my issue was not hinted at in the firmware release notes.

From day one with the 5DIV, I've loved the amazing AF, how it has added new life to my fastest lenses, including the 85 1.2 II, and works so well with the 100-400mm II + 1.4. And after the last firmware release, nothing but praise for the IQ.

What isn't beneficial about ETTR with the IV? (I actually just ordered one yesterday..)

I mean on my 5DIV, exposing to the right doesn't produce slightly better exposures as it did in my 20D, 60D, and 5DIII. It's the first Canon digital camera I've used that works like this. I'm finding it a little too easy to overexpose, get blown-out highlights, but the very good flipside is being able to work better with shadows and sharpening.

Don't get me wrong, highlights recover nicely, better than the 5DIII, BUT, it seems that the threshold for a true blowout is lower than with the 5DIII.

So, I had a learning curve which involved changing the ETTR habit I had developed. I'm extremely happy with the camera now.

Gotcha. Any other tips?

I leave for vacation in a month with it.

 

[9VIII]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20III,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Sony%20ILCE-9(ES

Apparently the Nikon D5 has about a 3/4 Bit noise advantage above ISO 3200, that has to be worth something to someone or Nkon wouldn't have made it one of the main selling points of their flagship camera.
Maybe the 6D2 is similar?

Until we see high ISO shots there's no way to tell if anything is wrong with the 6D2.

I admit it doesn't look promising though.

The upside is if the price drops like a rock I'll still take the 6D2 over anything else in the $1.5K price range.

 

[nightscape123]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20III,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Sony%20ILCE-9(ES

Apparently the Nikon D5 has about a 3/4 Bit noise advantage above ISO 3200, that has to be worth something to someone or Nkon wouldn't have made it one of the main selling points of their flagship camera.
Maybe the 6D2 is similar?

Until we see high ISO shots there's no way to tell if anything is wrong with the 6D2.

I admit it doesn't look promising though.

The upside is if the price drops like a rock I'll still take the 6D2 over anything else in the $1.5K price range.

DPR has ISO 6400 shots up. The 6DII is slightly worse than the 6D so another step backwards there...

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

the 6d line was created to kill off the secondhand market could be partly right. If they were not intended to compete with each other, then why did the original 6d have a better sensor than the 5d3? I think Canon realized afterwards that putting a better sensor in it was taking a lot of sales away from the 5d3 by DXO-reading fundamentalists that believe the 'film' in the camera is more important than everything else about it and have now corrected the problem. Now there is nothing the camera does better.

Corrected that for you. The 5D3 is a comprehensively better camera than the 6D1 on aggregate. Sensor devotees will disagree of course, but the difference even there was marginal. Everywhere else the 5D3 was clearly the better product -- AF, build, grip, controls/wheel/joystick, FPS, dual card, video, etc.

Anyone who thought the 6D1 was better than the 5D3 on aggregate likely had a very pure/simple/specialized need (i.e. astro, landscape ONLY shooters, maaaaybe low light event specialists for that -3 EV center point) for that extra X% sensor improvement or they desperately wanted onboard wifi/GPS.... or the mind wanders if they bought a 6D1 to puff up their chest for the forum community about the purity of their camera-buying priorities. (I kid.)

The 6D1 undoubtedly took some sales from the 5D3, but the general market -- i.e. not. folks. on. forums. -- responded to the 6D1 simply because Canon finally offered a choice between the $1200-1400 7d level camera and a $3500 5D level camera. The mere creation of a not-plutonium-priced FF offering dwarfed any small percentage of people that got a 6D1 expressly because of a fractionally better sensor.

- A

I'd say there's even another group - the Rebel group that wanted an IQ upgrade but not complexity upgrade. When used to the Rebel AF system (9- or 19-point, depending on time), moving to a 7D with those extra controls and AF settings and all could be intimidating. Not to most of us here, but to "normal people with cameras"? Yes. And the 6D delivers a similar experience to the Rebels, right? Think the Green Box crowd.

The 6D2's new, upgraded AF system still matches the Rebels. So do its controls. And hey, so does the single card slot! The upgrade path makes sense; it's just not intended for pretty much literally anyone here. And still doesn't make me happy about the sensor, but c'est la vie.

Apologies -- missed that.

- A

BTDT myself.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

So much of this stuff is just utter sh!t.

DPReview are doing the camera buying community yet another huge disservice and are being, at best, obtuse.

1st shot. So here is a crop of the 100iso shot from the 6D MkII vs the D750 both lifted 5 stops, and it's link.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/3416153698/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-dynamic-range

2nd shot. I downloaded the 6D MkII file and processed it optimally and this is the result.

You cannot apply the same 'standard' settings to different cameras and say look at the differences. You have to process each file optimally!

When you do you get very different results. When will people stop eating this DPReview sh!t up?

 

[Pax2You]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

So I am new here, but I was wondering about the software used to process the raw files. Did DPreview use old software? I downloaded one of their RAW files shot at iso 100 and opened it in the latest version of DPP 4 that supports the 6Dmk2. I upped the exposure to +3 and thats all. Forgive the subject matter as it was underwhelming. Shadows seemed to lift fine without getting swamped by noise. These are 100% crops with no resizing.

 

[Adelino]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20III,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Sony%20ILCE-9(ES

Apparently the Nikon D5 has about a 3/4 Bit noise advantage above ISO 3200, that has to be worth something to someone or Nkon wouldn't have made it one of the main selling points of their flagship camera.
Maybe the 6D2 is similar?

Until we see high ISO shots there's no way to tell if anything is wrong with the 6D2.

I admit it doesn't look promising though.

The upside is if the price drops like a rock I'll still take the 6D2 over anything else in the $1.5K price range.

Yeah so I am with you there. I was hoping for a great 2K camera now I will wait for an ok 1.5K camera. Hope the price drops fast or maybe we will see refurbished returns sooner.

 

[james75]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

the 6d line was created to kill off the secondhand market could be partly right. If they were not intended to compete with each other, then why did the original 6d have a better sensor than the 5d3? I think Canon realized afterwards that putting a better sensor in it was taking a lot of sales away from the 5d3 by DXO-reading fundamentalists that believe the 'film' in the camera is more important than everything else about it and have now corrected the problem. Now there is nothing the camera does better.

Corrected that for you. The 5D3 is a comprehensively better camera than the 6D1 on aggregate. Sensor devotees will disagree of course, but the difference even there was marginal. Everywhere else the 5D3 was clearly the better product -- AF, build, grip, controls/wheel/joystick, FPS, dual card, video, etc.

Anyone who thought the 6D1 was better than the 5D3 on aggregate likely had a very pure/simple/specialized need (i.e. astro, landscape ONLY shooters, maaaaybe low light event specialists for that -3 EV center point) for that extra X% sensor improvement or they desperately wanted onboard wifi/GPS.... or the mind wanders if they bought a 6D1 to puff up their chest for the forum community about the purity of their camera-buying priorities. (I kid.)

The 6D1 undoubtedly took some sales from the 5D3, but the general market -- i.e. not. folks. on. forums. -- responded to the 6D1 simply because Canon finally offered a choice between the $1200-1400 7d level camera and a $3500 5D level camera. The mere creation of a not-plutonium-priced FF offering dwarfed any small percentage of people that got a 6D1 expressly because of a fractionally better sensor.

- A

Yes of course the 5d3 is a better all around camera. Sorry if it seemed I said otherwise. And even if the 6d's sensor was only marginally better, it was still better. Having an improved sensor was what I was looking to most since I like shooting landscapes.
Oh well....I was disappointed at first, but now I'm over it.

 

[Pax2You]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Privatebydesign we must have posted simultaneously. You've illustrated the point even better

 

[Adelino]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Which cameras does Canon "intentionally cripple?" Differentiating one price point from another has nothing to do with "crippling a camera". Don't know why people want to call this crippling. Is a Ford Focus crippled because it is not as big or powerful as a top end Taurus? No. It is made for a different market and has a different price point for that reason.

But what if the Focus came with a carburetor instead of fuel injection? That's the sort of thing here, throwing a blatantly outdated major component into the product.

Great analogy! Canon also lied to us when they stated in an interview that they will always use the best sensor available. I guess in this case Canon meant best sesnsor we can design in a way to keep any IQ improvement.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Privatebydesign we must have posted simultaneously. You've illustrated the point even better

 

[Adelino]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

The 7D is at the top of the crop-sensor line, so purchasing it doesn't endanger sales of higher-end models.

What makes you think the higher end models are more profitable and must be protected? Price? That has nothing to do with the profit margin. Why is it people assume Canon is always trying to drive people into a higher price point?

Plus, the 7D is a sports camera for which low-ISO DR is a secondary, at best, concern. Therefore, there is no reason for Canon to intentionally cripple the 7D's DR.

Which cameras does Canon "intentionally cripple?" Differentiating one price point from another has nothing to do with "crippling a camera". Don't know why people want to call this crippling. Is a Ford Focus crippled because it is not as big or powerful as a top end Taurus? No. It is made for a different market and has a different price point for that reason.

The 6D, by contrast, was eating into 5D sales. What Canon found was that there are a ton of photographers who care only about getting the best IQ available.

Where did you get the sales data and where do you get the idea that the 6D was eating into 5D sales since Canon doesn't make that public?

My definition of crippled is a bit more expansive than yours. It includes omitting a feature that other cameras produced by the company of the same generation have. More importantly I consider it crippled if it omits a feature that its APS-C twin has. And your car analogy falls flat. A more appropriate analogy is if a a Ford Focus can be had with a 250hp engine and Ford decides to make an Acura (its luxury brand) version of the focus but only offers an 180hp engine because luxury car buyers might prefer the low-end Acura over a mid-level Acura if it had the 250hp engine.

Lincoln, I think you meant Lincoln is Ford's luxury brand. Acura is owned by Honda.