Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR1]

[davidmurray]

I reacted positively to the idea of Android and I'm positive about swivel screen. Problem is many others here aren't

Why would anyone want a custom version of Linux (customised for use on cellphones) then further customised for use on high-end DSLR cameras?
I have Linux on my laptop, and Android on my cellphone. I accept the desirability of having a general purpose network enabled system on those devices because, well, they ARE general purpose devices.

I really don't want my good camera connecting directly to the WWW via general purpose software. I want my Canon camera to be all Canon, and to be fast, efficient, and purpose built. I don't want to wait for it to start.

I appreciate that there are some extreme situations where it is not possible to use the optical view finder. I've not encountered one yet but think there are some. Probably. Where a 5D couldn't do the job. Maybe. So don't see how the extra cost could be justified. Surely for those few extreme situations an external monitor plugged into the HDMI port would do the job in a much more robust way than a built-in swivel screen.
I think Canon's decision to avoid bling like that on high-end cameras was an enlightened decision.

 

[zim]

Just a thought, how about a 'duel' OS, the existing canon OS and an a n other which third parties could official develop on. The core OS being protected by an api and published protocols. WiFi and GPS which isn't really core camera functionality could get moved to the more appropriate platform. Startup speed would also be protected and ML would be opened up to the apps developer community.

 

[Rahul Zota]

I think Canon should focus on Dynamic Range and Image Quality than increasing the fps rates.. 6 fps would be better but the Dynamic Range should be above 14 stops..

 

[MeanGreeny]

Oh please let the tilt screen bit be true - my knees are definitely older than the rest of me

 

[cerealito]

I reacted positively to the idea of Android and I'm positive about swivel screen. Problem is many others here aren't

Why would anyone want a custom version of Linux (customised for use on cellphones) then further customised for use on high-end DSLR cameras?
I have Linux on my laptop, and Android on my cellphone. I accept the desirability of having a general purpose network enabled system on those devices because, well, they ARE general purpose devices.

I really don't want my good camera connecting directly to the WWW via general purpose software. I want my Canon camera to be all Canon, and to be fast, efficient, and purpose built. I don't want to wait for it to start.

+1

 

[jeffa4444]

Canon has some areas where they are not as good as they should be (sensors).

But Canon's sensors are absolutely as good as 99% of us will ever need them to be.

The only people who need Sony sensors are people who don't know how to expose their images properly, or process them effectively.

People who would benefit more from lessons than from a new sensor...

I think your last comment you should read back. Ive been taking photographs for 45years, I know how to expose properly and all the fundamentals of photography. No amount of exposure correction or time in LR or PS will eliminate fixed pattern noise or banding both of which can be present in shots Ive taken with numerous Canon EOS digital cameras including my present 6D. I would prefer more latitude 14 stops would suffice but the present 11.7 even with filters can be challenging when dealing with deep blacks and bright highlights. Does this make Canon cameras bad? no but equally improvements would be welcome.

 

[Don Haines]

Canon has some areas where they are not as good as they should be (sensors).

But Canon's sensors are absolutely as good as 99% of us will ever need them to be.

The only people who need Sony sensors are people who don't know how to expose their images properly, or process them effectively.

People who would benefit more from lessons than from a new sensor...

In the Canon system, the sensor is the weakest part. The glass is fantastic! The user interface is good to great, depending on which camera. The autofocus system is great. The flash system is great....

Yes, the sensors are good enough for most people, but that doesn't mean that they should not make them better. There are lots of cases where the DR of the scene can not be captured in a single exposure. Canon has 11-12 stops.... Sony somewhere around 14 stops.... 16 stops would be even better.

No amount of lessons is going to help you when your scene has both bright and dark areas that you are trying to capture. Yes, you can try HDR, but that doesn't work on moving objects. All you can do in a single shot is decide if you are going to lose shadows, lose highlights, or a bit of both. Once the information is lost, no amount of processing will bring it back....

 

[StudentOfLight]

Canon has some areas where they are not as good as they should be (sensors).

But Canon's sensors are absolutely as good as 99% of us will ever need them to be.

The only people who need Sony sensors are people who don't know how to expose their images properly, or process them effectively.

People who would benefit more from lessons than from a new sensor...

In the Canon system, the sensor is the weakest part. The glass is fantastic! The user interface is good to great, depending on which camera. The autofocus system is great. The flash system is great....

Yes, the sensors are good enough for most people, but that doesn't mean that they should not make them better. There are lots of cases where the DR of the scene can not be captured in a single exposure. Canon has 11-12 stops.... Sony somewhere around 14 stops.... 16 stops would be even better.

No amount of lessons is going to help you when your scene has both bright and dark areas that you are trying to capture. Yes, you can try HDR, but that doesn't work on moving objects. All you can do in a single shot is decide if you are going to lose shadows, lose highlights, or a bit of both. Once the information is lost, no amount of processing will bring it back....

The answer my friend is a question...

"What is your subject?" - Eileen Rafferty

 

[Don Haines]

Canon has some areas where they are not as good as they should be (sensors).

But Canon's sensors are absolutely as good as 99% of us will ever need them to be.

The only people who need Sony sensors are people who don't know how to expose their images properly, or process them effectively.

People who would benefit more from lessons than from a new sensor...

In the Canon system, the sensor is the weakest part. The glass is fantastic! The user interface is good to great, depending on which camera. The autofocus system is great. The flash system is great....

Yes, the sensors are good enough for most people, but that doesn't mean that they should not make them better. There are lots of cases where the DR of the scene can not be captured in a single exposure. Canon has 11-12 stops.... Sony somewhere around 14 stops.... 16 stops would be even better.

No amount of lessons is going to help you when your scene has both bright and dark areas that you are trying to capture. Yes, you can try HDR, but that doesn't work on moving objects. All you can do in a single shot is decide if you are going to lose shadows, lose highlights, or a bit of both. Once the information is lost, no amount of processing will bring it back....

The answer my friend is a question...

"What is your subject?" - Eileen Rafferty

Personally, I like to split the difference and expose to loose a bit of both.... Here's the original image from lightroom with clipping display turned on.....

And yes, you can edit a bit to avoid the washed out look (second picture)....

Do I need more DR to take pictures? NO! That said, a bit more will help with clipping problems. This is the weakest part of the Canon system. I am not saying that it is bad, I'm saying that this is an area that can be improved on, and I fully expect that future models will address this.

 

[Sporgon]

Canon has some areas where they are not as good as they should be (sensors).

But Canon's sensors are absolutely as good as 99% of us will ever need them to be.

The only people who need Sony sensors are people who don't know how to expose their images properly, or process them effectively.

People who would benefit more from lessons than from a new sensor...

In the Canon system, the sensor is the weakest part. The glass is fantastic! The user interface is good to great, depending on which camera. The autofocus system is great. The flash system is great....

Yes, the sensors are good enough for most people, but that doesn't mean that they should not make them better. There are lots of cases where the DR of the scene can not be captured in a single exposure. Canon has 11-12 stops.... Sony somewhere around 14 stops.... 16 stops would be even better.

No amount of lessons is going to help you when your scene has both bright and dark areas that you are trying to capture. Yes, you can try HDR, but that doesn't work on moving objects. All you can do in a single shot is decide if you are going to lose shadows, lose highlights, or a bit of both. Once the information is lost, no amount of processing will bring it back....

The answer my friend is a question...

"What is your subject?" - Eileen Rafferty

Personally, I like to split the difference and expose to loose a bit of both.... Here's the original image from lightroom with clipping display turned on.....

And yes, you can edit a bit to avoid the washed out look (second picture)....

Do I need more DR to take pictures? NO! That said, a bit more will help with clipping problems. This is the weakest part of the Canon system. I am not saying that it is bad, I'm saying that this is an area that can be improved on, and I fully expect that future models will address this.

Don, that's a great example, because what you have shown is precisely what the '14 stops of DR' on the Exmor cannot help you with. I have tried one and it is no panacea for this situation.

For the same exposure the clipped highlights will be identical. (In actual fact I found the Canon fractionally better). The clipped blacks will be slightly better on the Exmor.

Now; you underexpose to preserve the highlights with the exmor, but you were already on the verge of losing the blacks anyway. Your under exposure, or perhaps better to say your faster exposure now loses those blacks that you were on the edge of anyway.

You gain nothing. You could have exposed faster with the Canon and lost your blacks as well.

This is why I said that after trying the exmor I found the EV range to be similar, it's just the read noise DR that is better, and of course there is a small window of opportunity to use it that is hammered to death on the internet.

 

[Don Haines]

Obviously every little improvement helps, but I think it's going to take 16 stops of DR to make a significant difference...

I don't have the data to show it, but it seems to me like my 7D2 has more range and cleaner shadows than my 60D.... For taking pictures of night skies it is worlds better! I expect that whatever comes next will have some more incremental improvements.....

Basically, none of this matters because whatever comes next is better than its predecessor.

 

[Sporgon]

Obviously every little improvement helps, but I think it's going to take 16 stops of DR to make a significant difference...

I don't have the data to show it, but it seems to me like my 7D2 has more range and cleaner shadows than my 60D.... For taking pictures of night skies it is worlds better! I expect that whatever comes next will have some more incremental improvements.....

Basically, none of this matters because whatever comes next is better than its predecessor.

Yes, more range in the highlights would bring many of the advantages for real that people on forums harp on about with the current Exmor.

I was never a great fan of the Canon 18 MP APS sensor. When pushed and manipulated it fell apart much faster than a FF camera. However I think the 20 MP in the 7DII is superb. It is clearly a more expensive incarnation of the sensor in the 70D and really does make me question the need to use FF much of the time.

 

[Komodor]

current 6D is such a good camera but we need shadow detail and low shadow noise that mean is more capable sensor and better af system i mean is more af points and more cross type sensors.

 

[K]

The last thing I want in my DSLR is Android! Please don't do that.

+100

The pros to having Android would be the de-crippling of several Canon features. It would be like Magic Lantern but much better with more ability to do more

The cons would be a bloated, battery killing, messy OS/firmware that brings all kinds of other bugs, hassles and headaches with it.

At the end of the day, it is a camera - NOT a computer. I'd prefer it not run android. I want to spend more time making photos than fiddling with the system.

Seriously, the world is over saturated with crap that can download "apps" ...please let our DSLR's be sanctuaries of sanity in this regard.

 

[K]

6D2,

I've said it before, 2 SD slots is what I hope for.

With 2 SD slots, this thing will destroy Nikon's FF-entry lineup. Because right now, that's a key feature that attracts up and coming pros on a budget. Nikon has big appeal in that segment. They want full frame, they want to shoot jobs and want data security - they can't spend $3,000. Canon shouldn't treat the 6D as just a high end hobbyist camera. This feature alone could allow it to be more popular in other segments.

Otherwise, the D750 is mighty attractive at its price. It has 2 slots, 24MP sensor with great low light and DR capabilities. And a 5D3 comparable AF system. Very hard to beat at around $1,500

 

[jeffa4444]

Spent the last 10 days playing with my 5Ds but took the 6D out on Sunday. It got me thinking what would I change about it? Well not alot but this is what I would like:-

1. Slight increase to 24MP
2. Slightly better DR
3. NO banding
4. More AF points
5. 5Ds metering system

Size & weight of the 6D along with wi-fi and GPS make it my travel camera thats not something I see my 5Ds being. The 5Ds is my tripod only Landscape camera where I want critical sharpness but its not a forgiving camera and technically everything needs disapline & attention to get results that exploit the resolution.

 

[PhotographyFirst]

6D2,

I've said it before, 2 SD slots is what I hope for.

With 2 SD slots, this thing will destroy Nikon's FF-entry lineup. Because right now, that's a key feature that attracts up and coming pros on a budget. Nikon has big appeal in that segment. They want full frame, they want to shoot jobs and want data security - they can't spend $3,000. Canon shouldn't treat the 6D as just a high end hobbyist camera. This feature alone could allow it to be more popular in other segments.

Otherwise, the D750 is mighty attractive at its price. It has 2 slots, 24MP sensor with great low light and DR capabilities. And a 5D3 comparable AF system. Very hard to beat at around $1,500

I personally think adding dual slots would be more beneficial than adding more DR. It would be great to be able to toss two 128BG + cards into there and never touch them for an entire trip. I would like to use higher capacity cards, but only having a single slots makes it too risky if a card fails.

 

[K]

Spent the last 10 days playing with my 5Ds but took the 6D out on Sunday. It got me thinking what would I change about it? Well not alot but this is what I would like:-

1. Slight increase to 24MP
2. Slightly better DR
3. NO banding
4. More AF points
5. 5Ds metering system

Not trying to be a smart, but that list - except for #5 is what the D750 already has. This is to further illustrate my point only, not to suggest anything about your post. And for metering, Nikon has arguably equal or better metering than Canon.

Unless Canon leapfrogs those specs with the 6D2, it will be hard to argue in favor of Canon for an entry level FF camera. We're speculating a $2,200 (or more) introduction price for a single slot FF camera in 2016. And it isn't likely to beat the 51 AF system, at best match it if it gets the 5D3 AF. It isn't likely to be a game changer on MP, with 28 at most from the rumors. DR is going to be hard to match or beat. And, 2 slots for data security, an important feature for pros and serious amateurs. And more FPS making it a reasonably decent camera for events. Will the 6D2 up the FPS that much? And the D750 has already dropped quite a bit from the intro price.

For those of us already in the Canon system and whom prefer the ergonomics or the lens lineup. Different story.

For all those making the leap to FF from crop and who are not invested in pro glass, I can't see how Canon offers a better deal than Nikon. Nikon might not have the diversity in lenses that Canon does - but Nikon has every pro staple lens you could need.

Worse, by the time the 6D2 is released or announced in late 2016 or further, what will the D810 be running street price? Think about that too. Dollar for dollar, by that time you'll have a nearly $800 cheaper camera with equal to or slightly better specs (D750) or an equal price camera (D810) with mostly better specs and more megapixels.

I get attacked on this forum for pointing that out, even though I'm a 5D3 and 6D owner and user. Nikon is a bit ahead on the value front for new users. Canon rides on the "you're stuck with us cause you have a fortune worth of our glass" ...a bit too much.

 

[StudentOfLight]

Canon has some areas where they are not as good as they should be (sensors).

But Canon's sensors are absolutely as good as 99% of us will ever need them to be.

The only people who need Sony sensors are people who don't know how to expose their images properly, or process them effectively.

People who would benefit more from lessons than from a new sensor...

In the Canon system, the sensor is the weakest part. The glass is fantastic! The user interface is good to great, depending on which camera. The autofocus system is great. The flash system is great....

Yes, the sensors are good enough for most people, but that doesn't mean that they should not make them better. There are lots of cases where the DR of the scene can not be captured in a single exposure. Canon has 11-12 stops.... Sony somewhere around 14 stops.... 16 stops would be even better.

No amount of lessons is going to help you when your scene has both bright and dark areas that you are trying to capture. Yes, you can try HDR, but that doesn't work on moving objects. All you can do in a single shot is decide if you are going to lose shadows, lose highlights, or a bit of both. Once the information is lost, no amount of processing will bring it back....

The answer my friend is a question...

"What is your subject?" - Eileen Rafferty

Personally, I like to split the difference and expose to loose a bit of both.... Here's the original image from lightroom with clipping display turned on.....

And yes, you can edit a bit to avoid the washed out look (second picture)....

Do I need more DR to take pictures? NO! That said, a bit more will help with clipping problems. This is the weakest part of the Canon system. I am not saying that it is bad, I'm saying that this is an area that can be improved on, and I fully expect that future models will address this.

Sometimes I prefer not to fight against physics and simply embrace shadow.

When watching a Star Wars movie recently one of the lines jumped out at me a real quotable moment applicable to photographers:
"You underestimate the power of the Dark Side." - Darth Vader

 

[jeffa4444]

Spent the last 10 days playing with my 5Ds but took the 6D out on Sunday. It got me thinking what would I change about it? Well not alot but this is what I would like:-

1. Slight increase to 24MP
2. Slightly better DR
3. NO banding
4. More AF points
5. 5Ds metering system

Not trying to be a smart, but that list - except for #5 is what the D750 already has. This is to further illustrate my point only, not to suggest anything about your post. And for metering, Nikon has arguably equal or better metering than Canon.

Unless Canon leapfrogs those specs with the 6D2, it will be hard to argue in favor of Canon for an entry level FF camera. We're speculating a $2,200 (or more) introduction price for a single slot FF camera in 2016. And it isn't likely to beat the 51 AF system, at best match it if it gets the 5D3 AF. It isn't likely to be a game changer on MP, with 28 at most from the rumors. DR is going to be hard to match or beat. And, 2 slots for data security, an important feature for pros and serious amateurs. And more FPS making it a reasonably decent camera for events. Will the 6D2 up the FPS that much? And the D750 has already dropped quite a bit from the intro price.

For those of us already in the Canon system and whom prefer the ergonomics or the lens lineup. Different story.

For all those making the leap to FF from crop and who are not invested in pro glass, I can't see how Canon offers a better deal than Nikon. Nikon might not have the diversity in lenses that Canon does - but Nikon has every pro staple lens you could need.

Worse, by the time the 6D2 is released or announced in late 2016 or further, what will the D810 be running street price? Think about that too. Dollar for dollar, by that time you'll have a nearly $800 cheaper camera with equal to or slightly better specs (D750) or an equal price camera (D810) with mostly better specs and more megapixels.

I get attacked on this forum for pointing that out, even though I'm a 5D3 and 6D owner and user. Nikon is a bit ahead on the value front for new users. Canon rides on the "you're stuck with us cause you have a fortune worth of our glass" ...a bit too much.

The D750 is indeed a place Canon missed out on I see the D610 as the 6D competitor currently. Im not fixated on an articulted screen its certainly not stopped me getting shots I know of and wonder about water ingress. The D750 doesnt have GPS a feature I use alot in Landscape. To its advantage is 51 point AF vs 11 point and the 2 stop DR increase however the 6D is exapandable 102,500 the Nikon is not. Personally I dont like for me the reverse focusing of Nikon lenses I use my lenses in manual focus alot.
Canon I think will give the next 6D 61 point AF the AF is the one area they have been lambasted for on the 6D and quite rightly however that centre cross point is very accurate in low light. Some like the inter-changeable screen in the 6D I think its a pain in the ass Ive had mine cleaned twice to remove dust thats got behind it but its a underrated camera among snobbish 5D MKIII users who missed the point of the camera as a travel & landscape camera its not meant to be a poor mans 5D MKIII. If Canon make small meaningful improvement and keep the spirit of the existing camera then I think it will do well.