Canon EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II Speculation [CR1]

[Timothy_Bruce]

sounds like i don´t have to waste money on fancy gear this year.

i will not upgrade my crop bodys as long as there is no new (better) sensor in terms of DR and noise.

well so i can spend more money on vacations.

Damnit, tomorrow I was finally going to upgrade my 350D (after 7 years) with a 7D. Now I am confused again. :-\

I have done that 2 years ago and i would do it any day again!

 

[traveller]

I'm not buying these specs. It isn't possible to have the autofocus from the full frame 5D III on an APS-C 7D II.

Good point. Physically, it's probably possible, in that the 61-point AF sensor array fits within the APS-C frame (see below). The side points go right to the edge of the frame, which sounds wonderful - but probably too good to be true, as vignetting and distortion will impact AF performance (one reason why there aren't AF points right to the edge of the frame!).

OK, so the sensor size of the D300(s) is slightly larger, but it doesn't seem to have caused too many problems for Nikon.

 

[wickidwombat]

7Dii is sounding like its going to be a bit of a beast

i would dearly love it to be aps-h but i know thats dreaming deeep down

oh and i hope everyone starts preparing themselves for it being $2500+
so we get less "its too expensive crybaby threads like the 5Dmk3"
people need to realise that there isn't a whole lot an internet forum can do to influence canon's
price points when the underlying demand actually provides support for their chosen price point
even if it is more than people would like to pay.

obviously we would all like them to just give them to use for being such loyal customers :
but the reality is the price is the price if you want it you have to pay it or dont get the product

 

[unfocused]

7Dii is sounding like its going to be a bit of a beast

i would dearly love it to be aps-h but i know thats dreaming deeep down

oh and i hope everyone starts preparing themselves for it being $2500+
so we get less "its too expensive crybaby threads like the 5Dmk3"
people need to realise that there isn't a whole lot an internet forum can do to influence canon's
price points when the underlying demand actually provides support for their chosen price point
even if it is more than people would like to pay.

obviously we would all like them to just give them to use for being such loyal customers :
but the reality is the price is the price if you want it you have to pay it or dont get the product

I think you are being pessimistic about the pricing. Unlike the 5DIII which was targeted to a professional base with features that they pretty much had to have (better autofocus, better low light performance) to compete in a very competitive industry (wedding and event photography), the 7DII remains a "prosumer" camera. It may end up being a very useable tool for professionals (sports/wildlife shooters) but at heart I expect it to remain targeted to non-professionals with disposable income. (Remember too that the sports/wildlife professional base is a tiny fraction compared to wedding and event photographers.)

Positioned as it is, the 7DII cannot succeed if it's price point is $500 above the comparable Nikon D300s successor.

Still, despite my views, I recognize that I could be wrong. If I am, I do make this promise: "I will not whine, moan or threaten on any internet forum to switch brands if the price of the 7DII is more than I want to spend."

I do, however, reserve the right to complain a bit if they "cheap it down" to a 60D level or stick a high megapixel but inferior sensor in the thing.

 

[borntoshoot]

I don't know about everyone else...but for me to upgrade to the 70D it has to have more AF points, improved DR, improved high ISO performance, an alloy body...then I will start to consider it.

 

[wickidwombat]

I think they are going to spec it up to more of a crop PRO camera than a prosumer camera
that AF and i think we will see build quality on a par with the 5Dmk3 it will be a PRO grade sport / wildlife monster.

of course these are just my guesses

but I think they have taken notice of all the sport wildlife shooters despairs at the loss of the crop with the 1D4 going away, so its going to step up a grade and the 70D will correct all the mistakes that happened with the 60D and if it gets the current 7D AF its going to be a wicked and capable little package for those looking for something cheaper. The 70D will be the prosumer body, Rebel the entry and the xxxxD line will either disappear completely or become the mirrorless line


oh yeah and it will not have 14 stops of DR at base iso so everyone needs to prepare for that, start stocking up on tinned food, water guns and ammunition now because the mayans were wrong the end of the world was not caused by the sun its because canon couldn't beat nikon in DR....

 

[DB]

I think they are going to spec it up to more of a crop PRO camera than a prosumer camera
that AF and i think we will see build quality on a par with the 5Dmk3 it will be a PRO grade sport / wildlife monster.

Just recall where the original spec list for the 7D came from - the 5,000 questionnaires sent out by Canon to Pro shooters on what they'd expect to see in a Crop body. The reason the 7D is so successful is, because it is the synthesis of aspiration of what the professional photographic community wanted to see attached to their 'L' zooms.

 

[maxxevv]

The information is scarce at best at this point, so the best we can speculate would be how Canon can 'differentiate' the 7DII if it were to keep its crown as the top crop-sensor DSLR.. ??

My guess is that is going be the same weather-resistant build quality as the 7D and 5DmkIII. If it has the same AF as the 5DIII, then it has to push up in its price. Possibly into the US$2500-3000/- realm ('Pro AF' comes at a price ... ) . To justify that, it would have to be an extra-special camera for users. They might... just might put in an APS-H sensor with tweaks for APS-C mode, EF-S lens compatibility.

It would be a fantastic 'bridge' camera between ASP-C and FF. Essentially a mini-1DmkIV that many people want!

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Again, not remotely interested unless improved high ISO performance...

Probably only1/3 stop better high ISO since the 7D already had gapless microlenses, split green filters, etc.
but who knows

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

1 stop of dynamic range improvements isn't exciting to marketing. Doesn't mean much to the majority of consumers either.

They'll need to push buzz worthy features like: Built-in HDR (there is their sensor DR fix), and cutting edge video features like 1080p 60fps super slomo effects. Doesn't the Nex-7 have this? Then other "features" to make you think you NEED to upgrade.

Otherwise, why update an already great camera?

first it's nearly 3 stops better DR
and second why could that be marketed any less than high iso noise or MP or whatnot?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

1 stop of dynamic range improvements isn't exciting to marketing. Doesn't mean much to the majority of consumers either.

They'll need to push buzz worthy features like: Built-in HDR (there is their sensor DR fix), and cutting edge video features like 1080p 60fps super slomo effects. Doesn't the Nex-7 have this? Then other "features" to make you think you NEED to upgrade.

Otherwise, why update an already great camera?

It would rather annoy 5D3 users if they held back better DR for the action cams 1DX and 7D2 and lower end 70D and then left it out of the top landscape/general cam the 5D3 though, but then again, Canon has always been logical about what goes where.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I'm not buying these specs. It isn't possible to have the autofocus from the full frame 5D III on an APS-C 7D II.

Why not?
If they expand the AF mirror width to almost that of the main mirror width then it can supply the same thing the 5D3 does. It might take more power and care to drive that mirror system that would now be maybe like APS-H bulk overall though.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I'm not buying these specs. It isn't possible to have the autofocus from the full frame 5D III on an APS-C 7D II.

Good point. Physically, it's probably possible, in that the 61-point AF sensor array fits within the APS-C frame (see below). The side points go right to the edge of the frame, which sounds wonderful - but probably too good to be true, as vignetting and distortion will impact AF performance (one reason why there aren't AF points right to the edge of the frame!).

What vignetting and distortion? It's not like the lenses project anything different than they do on FF. Yeah maybe a few EF-S or APS-C only lenses might have troubles with the outermost points but they can lock them out, the 5D3 AF allows varying number of points for different lenses so the code is already programmed to be able to take care of that they just assign each EF-S the correct category.

 

[RLPhoto]

the Current 7D will become the 70D and the 7DII will become the new top Crop camera. Id like to see an improved 18mp sensor with even better AF, and 10FPS! thatd be sweet.

Knowing canons pricing system, expect 2000$ and up.

But what about the current 7D? You're implying they discontinue it.

Those specs sound credible. And if so, the 70D looks a lot like the old 7D.

It doesn't just look like the 7D it is the 7D - they've just changed the name (inserted a 'zero' to make it xxD)

Why would Canon introduce so many new camera bodies with the same basic sensor? They'll just start to cannibalize their own product range, or have the 'marketing' people totally taken over (given that their R&D spend has dropped from 9.5% of sales in 2009 to 8.5% in 2011, plus the more recent lower figure according to their latest Annual Reports & Accounts, includes a growth in spend in 'Office' & 'Industrial' divisions, hence their 3rd division 'Consumer' which includes DSLRs must be really falling big time).

It is all 'form' over 'substance'.

Yes, They will discontinue it. Its logical. They discontinued alot of stuff recently if you've noticed. It would not suprise me that they discontinue the 7D for the New 7DII. Drop in a 0 and bam, 70D and re-use alot of older fabrication stuff to stretch the design until they release the 80D. Which will really be a new design.

They will discontinue the 7D, When the 7DII sales are enough. Same happened with the 5D and the 5DMKII.

Canon has not discontinued the 5D Mark II camera. Indeed, they made a point that they would not be discontinuing it for some time as it fulfills an important gap in their DSLR product line-up i.e. FF body < $2,000.

If others are correct here, that Canon will price the 7D successor @ $2,500 then why not leave the old 7D in the line-up at roughly half the 7D2 price? That way, Rebel users who wish to shoot sports/wildlife have an affordable APS-C body to upgrade to.

I didnt say the 5D MKII was discontinued, I pointed out that the 5D (IE the Original 5D classic Model) was sold along side the 5D MKII for a short while until production ceased after a few months. Its probable that canon will do the same with the 7D. Sell all the 7D stock until sales justify ending the production of this model, while prepping future buyers with the 70D release, and continue to sell the re-badged 7D classic as the NEW 70D!

This will allow both profits and the re-use of old fabrication lines of the 7D classic parts in the NEW 70D.

 

[nicku]

interesting move from Canon...they will move 70D little bit UP in the line and 7Dmk2 even more up closer and closer to the 1D4.

 

[drummstikk]

I would wonder if the 7DII would maybe then be a full frame camera at 18mpx?

I'm usually wrong on this stuff, but I really don't understand why Canon would want to put out a "cheap" full frame camera. Even though there had been much griping about the price of the 5DIII, it's spent a lot of time back-ordered at many shops. Why cannibalize sales on a big seller with a cheaper model?

As another has alluded to, I also don't see why they would want to continue to have three tiers of APS-C camera (Rebel, XXD, and XD). I would look for "70D" to take over as the mid-range prosumer model, hopefully restoring the more solid build quality and feel that was compromised in the shift from 50D to 60D. Then (and here's me starting to wish) I'd like to see the 7D market space filled with an APS-H camera. I'd hate to see APS-H end with the 1D MkIV. APS-H doesn't match full-frame for shallow DOF effects, but it is a nice upgrade from APS-C in this area and it gives a little more reach with tele lenses than FF.

 

[aznable]

So 70D would be just sensor and image processor upgrade?

upgrade from what? with digic V i would expect a bump on real fps, putting it at the same level of 50D; big upgrade for autofocus too if those rumors are true

 

[Marsu42]

interesting move from Canon...they will move 70D little bit UP in the line and 7Dmk2 even more up closer and closer to the 1D4.

...but sadly also predictable: Canon has raised the price of all follow-up products heavily lately (24-70ii, 5d3, 600rt, ...), and since it seems to work out they'll continue doing it. Maybe they're atm wondering why they didn't sell the 5d3 at $4000 because the people who bought it would have gotten it for any price short of the 1dx price tag :-o

I'm usually wrong on this stuff, but I really don't understand why Canon would want to put out a "cheap" full frame camera. Even though there had been much griping about the price of the 5DIII, it's spent a lot of time back-ordered at many shops. Why cannibalize sales on a big seller with a cheaper model?

Let's pray for more competition: Since it's crippled anyway because people are stuck to their lenses, only strong pressure - pr or sales - from Sony and Nikon will make canon release a 5d2 successor with a comparable price.

 

[briansquibb]

I was out shooting motorsports with my 7D and 1D4.

The 7D did very well (it was good light) but it was clear on the big prints that the IQ was not up to the 1D4.

The headline improvements sound good for the 7DII - however there are still a lot of things that need to be improved for the 7DII to catch up. I am not of the opinion the DR is the highest priority until better control of the metering happens

For example for sports/moving wildlife/birds:

Metering on the AF point - very important in the summer with high contrast
Ability to shoot in M mode with AutoIso and EC

 

[whatta]

if 70d is indeed gaining "everything" from 7d except fps, size, weight (basically body) it might be the one for me. Especially interested in the viewfinder and AF.