Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]

[candyman]

I do see the 7D (and its successor) positioned as a wildlife/Sports camera. Considering this, the 7D is weathersealed. So why should this camera get a 'flipscreen' in the 7D MKII? This feature may be the thing for a 70D that probably will get very good video specs.

 

[niccon]

Low noise at high iso is not a question for nikon, canon had allways some problems wit that.

low noise at high iso has been an issue with nikon many years back (early 2000s) and nikon users at that time wish they can look into cmos (which canon employed) for improvement. it was only recent years (after 2006, i think) that nikon sensor started to improve and eventually overtake (or levelled with) canon in this aspect.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

I do see the 7D (and its successor) positioned as a wildlife/Sports camera. Considering this, the 7D is weathersealed. So why should this camera get a 'flipscreen' in the 7D MKII? This feature may be the thing for a 70D that probably will get very good video specs.

The 60D is also weathersealed, just not quite to the degree of the 7D. I don't think weathersealing is the issue. I would guess that demand is probably the bigger issue. It is obviously a divisive issue here, and if this group is representative of the intended market, the 7D MKII may not have the screen because not enough of the market demands it.

 

[Powder Portraits]

As a employer who "trains" staff to be on the hill ski photographers I would never outfit a ski photographer with a breakaway flip screen.

 

[coreyhkh]

The market for the 7d and is sports and wildlife, there is no need or place for that stupid screen. Its great for some people, but that should be a feature of the 70d.

A lot of people that will buy the new 7D will be using it outside where things happen, rain/snow hitting trees and dropping it is just normal, no matter how careful you are things happen.

I would still buy this camera if it had the screen but I would prefer it didn't.

 

[jasonsim]

You have the Canon 60Da that was made specifically with the astronomer in mind. It has the swivel screen and 18MP with 5.3FPS. How much faster do you need for astronomy?

Or you can always invest in an extra long giant Gitzo tripod. There are some that go above 94 inches.

cheap cameras and actual video cameras are what flip screens go on. If a flip screen is important you prob should be looking at video cameras.

Just because something is your opinion does not make it reality to all....

Have you ever heard of astrophotography? You attach the camera to the telescope and take pictures of the stars.... The best time of the year is the winter, when the cold weather means less moisture in the air and it means better pictures.... and as a general rule of thumb.... we point the telescope up, and that means that to see the back of the camera we either have to use a diagonal (90 degree mirror) that degrades the image and makes focusing a problem, or we have get BELOW the camera to see the back of it.... this means a lot of lying in the snow, and quite frankly, I prefer a tilt-swivel screen to lying in the snow.

I look forward to wifi enabled bodies where I can stream the view and controls to a phone or tablet that I can keep warm under my coat.... but then you probably think that wifi has no place in cameras either....

I'll tell you something else about astrophotography...... it happens a lot at night, and low light/ high ISO performance is very important to us.... so the idea of high end cameras with either wifi or articulated screens is very welcome to this segment of the population. Cheap cameras and video recorders just do not cut it here.

 

[dlleno]

Sad_Dave: see? there are important reasons behind the comments and speculations here. Generally, the ones who expect all features on one camera are without a firm grasp of tradeoffs, target markets and cost consequences.

as far as the discussion itself goes, - A wildlife camera should be optimized for the environments it is expected to be used-- outdoors in less than ideal conditions. It should not be have the ability to place a portion of its hardware in a mechanically vulnerable position, increasing chance of equipment failure in enviroments more hostile, for example, than an indoor birthday party. Moreover, a wildlife/action 'tog is not likely to appreciate the cost, durability, weather sealing, and ergonomic consequences of having such a screen but simply avoiding its use.

That said, the general purpose consumer who wants to chronicle family events, adding a few cool portaits, landscapes, and macros along the way, would likely be happy with a general purpose camera with an articulating screen, especially if there is no desire to chase moose in the snow.

I do acknowledge (and even suspect) that if Canon strengthens the wildlife/sports orientation of the 7D even further in the 7D2, and perhaps even produces a worthy successor to the 1D4, that there will be some disspointed consumers who want the status of a single digit camera with the consumer features of the xxD

 

[Don Haines]

You have the Canon 60Da that was made specifically with the astronomer in mind. It has the swivel screen and 18MP with 5.3FPS. How much faster do you need for astronomy?

Or you can always invest in an extra long giant Gitzo tripod. There are some that go above 94 inches.

5.3 frames per second has absolutly nothing to do with "faster for astronomy" because exposure times are in minutes.... I tend to use the IoShutterPro app on an ipad to control the shutter because the camera itself will only allow a 30 second maximum exposure. For faster, we mean higher ISO and lower noise at higher ISO's is highly desired. I was taking pictures of the Andromeda galaxy a few days ago, F2.8, ISO3200, 8 minute exposure time..... and that's a fairly bright target!

Gitzo tripods may be great for most people, but in astrophotography we mount our telescopes and cameras on tracking mounts.

 

[Sad_Dave]

I do understand well that some of the consumer can afford more than one camera body. Each one for a different use, but not all of us can. For those who can purchase only one camera that one should have as much features as possible. If some shoot only sports, well just don't need that flip screen. If somebody is just taking pictures at the birthdayparty, than he just is ok with a xxxD. But if you find interest in shooting many different things you want a camera that offers all the needed featurs like flip screen, fast shooting, fast af and so on.
That camera would be the right one for me, because i can only buy one an not 2 more as a back up.

 

[miah]

I must agree with TWI by Dustin Abbott. I recently added a 5DIII to my T3i and miss the flip-screen and pop-up flash more than the lost reach. The fear of extra moving parts, less weather-sealing, and more vulnerability to breakage--while a reasonable assumption--is not born out by the facts. I too worried about these issues when moving from the T1i (no flip-screen) to the T3i (flip-screen). But like the T1i before it, I've dragged my T3i to hell and back, bouncing around the [third] world on a dirt bike for months and months and months at a time, camping at night, through all sorts of climates, weather, places and circumstances that would insult any camera. And like TWI by Dustin Abbott, I've found the reversibility of the T3i's screen actually makes it LESS prone to damage! It's maybe a bit counterintuitive, but that fragile piece of stationary glass on the back of our cameras, without so much as a "lens cap" for protection, is the most vulnerable part of all.

So, I too hope the 7DII comes in with a flip-screen and a pop-up flash. If it doesn't, I'll stick with the T3i as my second body. These two features add a lot of utility and convenience without significantly impacting durability, IMHO.

 

[Loswr]

....in astrophotography we mount our telescopes and cameras on tracking mounts.

Wait, wait...you mean the earth moves during your exposures?

 

[Don Haines]

A question - has anyone tried to capture a BIF using the screen?
The very few times I've used the LCD on my 7D instead of the viewfinder I found it very difficult to track moving animals, let alone a bird in flight, especially with my longer lenses. Holding the camera to my eye makes it much easier to follow the critter.

"live view" could be better described as "delayed view".... and the focus speed seems to be a lot slower in the live view mode. When you press the shutter there is considerable delay before the picture is taken. That delay and action shots don't seem to fit together. Personally, I find that I only use live view when on a tripod or when manually setting focus. I have used Rebels, 60D, 7D, and 5DII and they all seem to have the same delay in "live view"

 

[dlleno]

I do understand well that some of the consumer can afford more than one camera body. Each one for a different use, but not all of us can. For those who can purchase only one camera that one should have as much features as possible. If some shoot only sports, well just don't need that flip screen. If somebody is just taking pictures at the birthdayparty, than he just is ok with a xxxD. But if you find interest in shooting many different things you want a camera that offers all the needed featurs like flip screen, fast shooting, fast af and so on.
That camera would be the right one for me, because i can only buy one an not 2 more as a back up.

you're not the only one. For example, some will buy the 7D2 even if it has an articulating screen if they are not likely to hike through the brush during the rain chasing moose. Those who stand shoulder to shoulder in a crowd using a monopod, worried about that screen getting bumped by a flying elbow, may think differently.

And Miah your experience is important, to be sure; I just wouldn't go quite as far as saying that your assesment is factual for all wildlife/action 'togs. I'm sure there are a number of situations where the 1D4 and 1DX would wink and smile where the xxD and Rebels would die.

In the end, Canon's marketing research has to describe the target the market that will make them money, and then go after it. Some will be closer to the target audience than others. I'm reminded of Canons announcement that 1D and 1Ds would merge into the 1DX, and all the speculating around Canon abandoning the 1D4 market.

 

[miah]

Granted, dlleno, I should have said "my experience," rather than "the facts." That said, the concern I see here about the screen being ripped off while chasing a moose in heavy brush or taken out by an errant elbow in a crowd (I've used my T3i in both situations) fails to recognize that in those instances you can merely flip the screen back on itself and fold it into the camera body so that it looks and behaves exactly like the fixed screen on a 7D or 5D.

In short, flip-screens add moving parts, are less weatherproof, and when protruded can increase the possibility of damage. But, the design is well engineered and has survived the test-of-time, at least in my experience. I've never had to send my T3i in for repair. I've never had a weather-related issue, although I am careful about using shower caps and such to keep things dry. And the protrusion issue is easily solved by flipping the screen around and folding it into the body. Hence, there is much utility and convenience to be gained by the flip for self-timers, low-angle macro, high-angle crowd shots, and even the occasional hold-the-camera-out-on-the-end-of-the-tripod-and-shoot-with-a-wireless-remote shots.

I'm not suggesting that the flip-screen doesn't have downsides, just that they're overblown. Or more simply, I find the pros well outweigh the cons. That's why I am hoping that the 7DII, with all of its hoped for improvements, includes a flip-screen.

 

[dlleno]

Granted, dileno, I should have said "my experience," rather than "the facts." That said, the concern I see here about the screen being ripped off while chasing a moose in heavy brush or taken out by an errant elbow in a crowd (I've used my T3i in both situations) fails to recognize that in those instances you can merely flip the screen back on itself and fold it into the camera body so that it looks and behaves exactly like the fixed screen on a 7D or 5D.

In short, flip-screens add moving parts, are less weatherproof, and when protruded can increase the possibility of damage. But, the design is well engineered and has survived the test-of-time, at least in my experience. I've never had to send my T3i in for repair. I've never had a weather-related issue, although I am careful about using shower caps and such to keep things dry. And the protrusion issue is easily solved by flipping the screen around and folding it into the body. Hence, there is much utility and convenience to be gained by the flip for self-timers, low-angle macro, high-angle crowd shots, and even the occasional hold-the-camera-out-on-the-end-of-the-tripod-and-shoot-with-a-wireless-remote shots.

I'm not suggesting that the flip-screen doesn't have downsides, just that they're overblown. Or more simply, I find the pros well outweigh the cons. That's why I am hoping that the 7DII, with all of its hoped for improvements, includes a flip-screen.

no argument here, especially for occasional wildlife adventures and general purpose photography in good weather or indoors. in fact, should Canon target the 7D2 toards that market i suspect it will have the screen. Its the serious outdoor wildlife 'togs that are not likely to to reach for the 7D2 if it has the screen because it won't be up to the weather sealing standards of those who chase moose regularly in the rain, and the ergonomic consequences of having it there (but not using it) are unsavory.

time will tell where the 7D2 is positioned, i.e. if it is closer to being a 1D4 successor or simply the flagship crop body with better specs than the 70D.

As for the crop bodies winning the IQ contest in focal length limited scenarios (for larger prints especially), I suppose there is even a point of diminishing returns at very long subject distances (and very long focal lengths) where the "reach" advantage starts to erode due to environmental/atmospheric conditions. To the extent this is true, Canon is probably optimizing both IQ and their profits to move the pro 'togs to FF and longer glass (while abandoning the 'H' sensor), and positioning the crop 'reach' cameras for mortals who can't afford the longer glass. This puts the "reach" debate in terms of "focal length" limits rather than "distance" limits, as neuro has done. Thus, when the glass budget is unlimited, the scenarios where the crop sensor produces better IQ than the FF sensors are few.

 

[Bosman]

The aps-c on the 7d2 will have to be some new tech to compete with an APS-H of a 1dm4. I hope it is and i hope it does.

 

[verysimplejason]

....in astrophotography we mount our telescopes and cameras on tracking mounts.

Wait, wait...you mean the earth moves during your exposures?

I think he refers to the tracking mounts used to mount the telescopes (not primarily for moving but for re-positioning of the telescope). When rotated 90 degrees, it's either you go underneath the telescope to attach your camera (and view/compose the shot) or if you have a flip screen, you can simply flip and you have already a view of your shot. 6D might have offered a good workaround to this by providing a flip-screen like feature through Wifi/smartphone.

 

[Don Haines]

....in astrophotography we mount our telescopes and cameras on tracking mounts.

Wait, wait...you mean the earth moves during your exposures?

I think he refers to the tracking mounts used to mount the telescopes (not primarily for moving but for re-positioning of the telescope). When rotated 90 degrees, it's either you go underneath the telescope to attach your camera (and view/compose the shot) or if you have a flip screen, you can simply flip and you have already a view of your shot. 6D might have offered a good workaround to this by providing a flip-screen like feature through Wifi/smartphone.

I mean tracking mounts.... polar align the mount, calibrate the mount, then point it at, for example, Jupiter and the camera stays on Jupiter as it arcs across the sky.... the mount tracks celestrial bodies.... neuro's response was tongue in cheek... everyone knows the earth stays still and the universe revolves around it

 

[rpt]

....in astrophotography we mount our telescopes and cameras on tracking mounts.

Wait, wait...you mean the earth moves during your exposures?

I think he refers to the tracking mounts used to mount the telescopes (not primarily for moving but for re-positioning of the telescope). When rotated 90 degrees, it's either you go underneath the telescope to attach your camera (and view/compose the shot) or if you have a flip screen, you can simply flip and you have already a view of your shot. 6D might have offered a good workaround to this by providing a flip-screen like feature through Wifi/smartphone.

I mean tracking mounts.... polar align the mount, calibrate the mount, then point it at, for example, Jupiter and the camera stays on Jupiter as it arcs across the sky.... the mount tracks celestrial bodies.... neuro's response was tongue in cheek... everyone knows the earth stays still and the universe revolves around it

Neuro forgot to put his <sarcasm> tag
That probably threw everybody

 

[East Wind Photography]

+1 on this. The effects of atmospheric and heat dispersion on IQ at longer focal lengths sometimes makes me wonder if my equipment is operating properly. But alas it is Canon and I shouldnt doubt my equipment. More careful checks always reveal atmospheric restrictions...so longer glass does not always mean more reach, just bigger subjects.

I spoke with an engineer at Canon not too long ago and temperature variations on the equipment can cause IQ issues as well...such as bringing your 600mm out of a warm house and into 30 degree weather. As the glass cools it's changes shape thus throwing everything out of kilt in the lens until the temperature stabilizes. Still even differences between warm and cold operating temps can cause the lenses and cameras to operate with different specs. Canon calibrates at "room temperature". Anything else and your results WILL vary.

Granted, dileno, I should have said "my experience," rather than "the facts." That said, the concern I see here about the screen being ripped off while chasing a moose in heavy brush or taken out by an errant elbow in a crowd (I've used my T3i in both situations) fails to recognize that in those instances you can merely flip the screen back on itself and fold it into the camera body so that it looks and behaves exactly like the fixed screen on a 7D or 5D.

In short, flip-screens add moving parts, are less weatherproof, and when protruded can increase the possibility of damage. But, the design is well engineered and has survived the test-of-time, at least in my experience. I've never had to send my T3i in for repair. I've never had a weather-related issue, although I am careful about using shower caps and such to keep things dry. And the protrusion issue is easily solved by flipping the screen around and folding it into the body. Hence, there is much utility and convenience to be gained by the flip for self-timers, low-angle macro, high-angle crowd shots, and even the occasional hold-the-camera-out-on-the-end-of-the-tripod-and-shoot-with-a-wireless-remote shots.

I'm not suggesting that the flip-screen doesn't have downsides, just that they're overblown. Or more simply, I find the pros well outweigh the cons. That's why I am hoping that the 7DII, with all of its hoped for improvements, includes a flip-screen.

no argument here, especially for occasional wildlife adventures and general purpose photography in good weather or indoors. in fact, should Canon target the 7D2 toards that market i suspect it will have the screen. Its the serious outdoor wildlife 'togs that are not likely to to reach for the 7D2 if it has the screen because it won't be up to the weather sealing standards of those who chase moose regularly in the rain, and the ergonomic consequences of having it there (but not using it) are unsavory.

time will tell where the 7D2 is positioned, i.e. if it is closer to being a 1D4 successor or simply the flagship crop body with better specs than the 70D.

As for the crop bodies winning the IQ contest in focal length limited scenarios (for larger prints especially), I suppose there is even a point of diminishing returns at very long subject distances (and very long focal lengths) where the "reach" advantage starts to erode due to environmental/atmospheric conditions. To the extent this is true, Canon is probably optimizing both IQ and their profits to move the pro 'togs to FF and longer glass (while abandoning the 'H' sensor), and positioning the crop 'reach' cameras for mortals who can't afford the longer glass. This puts the "reach" debate in terms of "focal length" limits rather than "distance" limits, as neuro has done. Thus, when the glass budget is unlimited, the scenarios where the crop sensor produces better IQ than the FF sensors are few.