Canon EOS 7D Mark III Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

[SecureGSM]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

Neuro,
Thank you for the response. Truly appreciate it.
Firstly, an absolute majority of people do not understand a thing about security, probabilities, risk aversion and would not move a pinky unless they absolutely must due to compliance or else. That's humans for you.
What sets professional apart is the understanding of how the potential irrecoverableloss of the footage may affect your client. Tell them upfront and ask them if they would be happy with the loss and see what their reaction will be. Secondly, home contents insurance is voluntary in Australia. Same with car insurance. You can choose to have your car insured or otherwise.
Majority choose to protect their assets, car or belonging from an accidental loss, theft or damage. Others choose will not.
Thirdly, those photographers that shoot weddings with a single slot are either irresponsible people or simply do not understand the risk. In either case: are not being professional enough and need to reconsider.

Good to have an intelligent discussion with you, Sir. thank you.

Mr. Neuro, there are plenty of people out their who paid there house, house contents, motor vehicle or professional insurance for all their life but never were in the need to lodge the claim. I am sure you understand that it is important to stay risk aversed and also be responsible and avoid risks of loosing those photos of once in the lifetime event, never repeat again moments being wedding ceremony, etc for so many happy couples out their. Dual redundant card slot is just that: inexpensive insurance.
Therefore I would hazard to call any wedding photographer that consider taking risk shooting such an important events with non-redundant card slot an irresponsible person. Yes, irresponsible. I am sorry, Mr. Neuro, but back in the analogous days of film photography the redundancy was not so easily achievable as nowadays. Therefore I would argue, with all due respect, that your "back in the film day" example was not quite relevant.

The leading photographers and photo professional associations should take the lead and raise the bar in calling on industry to support compulsory dual redundant card standard in professional settings.

Oh, Lord, here we go again. There are many experienced photographers who do not deny the advantages of dual slot but who say it is way, way down their list of priorities. To say the 6D2 is not a 'wedding camera' because of only one card slot is asinine.

+1

Mr. SecureGSM, regarding insurance, how many of those homeowners and automobile owners would personally choose to pay for that insurance? I am sure you understand that mortgageholders and lienholders mandate that such insurance be maintained by the owners (who aren't really owners while there's a balance on the loan), and that in general jurisdictions require at least liability insurance in most circumstances. So I'd argue, with all due respect, that your home/auto/business insurance example is not quite relevant. Incidentally, I know a few wedding pros with dual-slot cameras, who write to one card, with the second card as overflow.

Also, given that the dual-slot implementation on most Canon bodies (my 1D X notwithstanding) involves a performance hit based on the lesser card slot, there's a tradeoff involved for that 'inexpensive insurance'. By the way, how do you conclude that it's 'inexpensive'?

 

[SecureGSM]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

Exactly, idiots or in another words - being irresponsible. If they lost their life due to their own negligence is very bad of course, but if photographer lost the entire wedding footage due to being irresponsible, unprofessional or idiot by your definition, that affects the groom and bride. Hence it is important to protect the footage.
Home contents insurance is voluntary in AUSTRALIA, income protection insurance and termite protection as well. Many choose to take the extra cover. The intelligent people that is. The idiots will suffer consequences in the end.


I am arguing that those idiots

Mr. Neuro, there are plenty of people out their who paid there house, house contents, motor vehicle or professional insurance for all their life but never were in the need to lodge the claim.

well, house insurance is mandatory for a mortgage. car insurance is the law.

how many idiots drive in the USA without motorcycle helmets?

fun fact .. 1700+ americans died in 2015 because they didn't wear a helmet while riding or driving a motorcycle.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

Mr. Neuro, there are plenty of people out their who paid there house, house contents, motor vehicle or professional insurance for all their life but never were in the need to lodge the claim.

well, house insurance is mandatory for a mortgage. car insurance is the law.

how many idiots drive in the USA without motorcycle helmets?

fun fact .. 1700+ americans died in 2015 because they didn't wear a helmet while riding or driving a motorcycle.

How many died because of card failure?

 

[dolina]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

7D Mark I - 1 September 2009
7D Mark II - 15 September 2014
7D Mark III - September 2019

Any month in 2018 is very optimistic.

I wonder if they will use CFast or SDXC cards.

 

[Cthulhu]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

You've clearly never had a card fail on a professional job, costing you that job; I have.

Well, you probably shouldn't buy a camera with one card slot, then. But then, you also shouldn't think you have the right determine how others should choose and use their gear...yet you seem perfectly ok doing just that.

Here you go again, arguing against conventionally established wisdom.
It has been a long time since I've seen anyone covering an event with a single slot camera, with the exception of secondary bodies. I've actually been asked a time or two if I shoot dual cards, because yelp exists and if you shoot to a single card you'll only survive until your card fails and you have a gigantic rant to warn potential clients that you'll ruin their special day.

 

[SecureGSM]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

You've clearly never had a card fail on a professional job, costing you that job; I have.

Well, you probably shouldn't buy a camera with one card slot, then. But then, you also shouldn't think you have the right determine how others should choose and use their gear...yet you seem perfectly ok doing just that.

Here you go again, arguing against conventionally established wisdom.
It has been a long time since I've seen anyone covering an event with a single slot camera, with the exception of secondary bodies. I've actually been asked a time or two if I shoot dual cards, because yelp exists and if you shoot to a single card you'll only survive until your card fails and you have a gigantic rant to warn potential clients that you'll ruin their special day.

 

[pwp]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

Firstly, no, not again. You are not paying attention.
Emotional bias aside, let me better explain myself.
I am not referring to 6D or any camera in particular. I am saying that shooting a once in a life time event on a single card is irresponsible.
And secondly, this is nothing to do with some professionals priority list. It is all to do with being responsible and ensure protection of the footage for your clients sake.
The list of photographer's priority is very different to the on of the groom and bride.
But that's OK to disagree. However, next time you shoot weeding, please do let your client know that if the card will die unexpectedly during or at the end of the wedding ceremony, all the images will be lost and you will have to reshoot the entire day from the second one and see what their reaction will be.
Or else, take responsibility and protect the outcomes.

Mr. Neuro, there are plenty of people out their who paid there house, house contents, motor vehicle or professional insurance for all their life but never were in the need to lodge the claim. I am sure you understand that it is important to stay risk averse and also be responsible and avoid risks of loosing those photos of once in the lifetime event, never repeat again moments being wedding ceremony, etc for so many happy couples out their. Dual redundant card slot is just that: inexpensive insurance.
Therefore I would hazard to call any wedding photographer that consider taking risk shooting such an important events with non-redundant card slot an irresponsible person. Yes, irresponsible. I am sorry, Mr. Neuro, but back in the analogous days of film photography the redundancy was not so easily achievable as nowadays. Therefore I would argue, with all due respect, that your "back in the film day" example was not quite relevant.

The leading photographers and photo professional associations should take the lead and raise the bar in calling on industry to support compulsory dual redundant card standard in professional settings.

Oh, Lord, here we go again. There are many experienced photographers who do not deny the advantages of dual slot but who say it is way, way down their list of priorities. To say the 6D2 is not a 'wedding camera' because of only one card slot is asinine.

Perfectly stated by experienced professionals. There is absolutely no valid argument against dual card slots. It is a photographers choice whether to use them or not. It's just plain professionally irresponsible not to exercise this simplest of options. Not just responsibility to the client, but to your own business and professional reputation. Hell, it's practically free insurance!

Yes, earlier digital bodies may not have offered the option, and cards did occasionally fail. Going back further to film days, losing a roll of film could be diabolical, but at the most you were losing 36 exposures, or 10-12 if using medium format. Chances are you're fitting a couple of thousand shots onto a 64 Gb card. Dual slots both shooting RAW, it's a no brainer.

-pw

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

You've clearly never had a card fail on a professional job, costing you that job; I have.

Well, you probably shouldn't buy a camera with one card slot, then. But then, you also shouldn't think you have the right determine how others should choose and use their gear...yet you seem perfectly ok doing just that.

Here you go again, arguing against conventionally established wisdom.
It has been a long time since I've seen anyone covering an event with a single slot camera, with the exception of secondary bodies. I've actually been asked a time or two if I shoot dual cards, because yelp exists and if you shoot to a single card you'll only survive until your card fails and you have a gigantic rant to warn potential clients that you'll ruin their special day.

Perfectly stated by experienced professionals. There is absolutely no valid argument against dual card slots. It is a photographers choice whether to use them or not. It's just plain professionally irresponsible not to exercise this simplest of options.

LOL @ 'conventionally established wisdom'. So, 6 years ago when Canon and Nikon offered dual slots only in their 1- and D# series cameras, anyone using a 5DII or D700 was professionally irresponsible? A wedding shooter using Hasselblad who didn't upgrade from the H5D to the H6D last year is professionally irresponsible? Anyone shooting a wedding with a Sony a7R II is professionally irresponsible? Anyone shooting wedding video on 5DIV, which only records movies to one card, is professionally irresponsible? Sorry, that's just plain silly.

I wonder who is more professionally responsible – a wedding photographer with a single 5DIV, or someone with a pair of 6DII bodies? Or if you have a 5DIV with a 6D as a backup camera, if your 5DIV fails on a job do you suddenly become professionally irresponsible when you pick up the 6D?

 

[jolyonralph]

Please be quiet the lot of you. This is a pointless discussion.

The 7D Mark III will almost certainly have dual slots.

So why are we all getting upset? If you want a camera with dual slots, Canon provide you an current option (7D series, 5D series, 1DX series)

If you want to save money and get a single-slot camera, there are options for you too.

 

[YuengLinger]

I never thought the IQ of the 7D II was compelling, though other features seem great. Give us a clean high-ISO, high-DR cropped for action/wildlife, one that extracts the very best from L quality lenses, and I'll buy.

No thanks to a flippy screen for something that is meant to be out in all types of weather and used 90% through the viewfinder. Even tilting a screen does little to make using it easier in blazing sun, which, in Florida, begins blazing by 7:30a.m. and stays that way for 12 hours.

I don't want a Swiss Army knife of a camera, but one that is designed for high performance in harsh conditions.

Otoh, a flippy screen on the 6DII makes perfect sense. I never miss it on the 5DIV, very rarely use it on the 80D because I don't do video. (Yet?) I guess it is ok for food photography and selfies though...

 

[Orangutan]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

There is absolutely no valid argument against dual card slots. It is a photographers choice whether to use them or not. It's just plain professionally irresponsible not to exercise this simplest of options. Not just responsibility to the client, but to your own business and professional reputation. Hell, it's practically free insurance!

I'm curious, how many weddings per year do you shoot, and what do you charge? Maintaining two dual-slot bodies, a second-shooter (or full partner), ultra-reliable transportation, etc. all cost money. There are many couples who cannot afford to spend even $1000 on wedding photography, let alone $2k, $3k or more. Your blanket edict about about dual-slot is more than a statement about photographers, it's a statement about less-affluent clients -- you're saying they should not be able to hire a part-time pro who shoots XXD bodies, and they should just ask Uncle Fred to shoot it, and hope to keep the sparkling wine hidden until after the ceremony.

I say yet again, it's entirely reasonable and desirable to have dual-slots, but that alone cannot possible encompass the full range of legitimate risks vs. costs that go into each photographer's decision. In short, a photographer will price himself out of the means of many couples if he insists on covering every minute risk. High-end photographers who serve high-end clients can afford this; others might not.

 

[RickWagoner]

dual cards slots will be included. Touch screen but i have not seen a flippy screen just the same screen on the 5d4. Same body and same battery grip as 7d2. units have been tested with 24mp sensor but if canon waits long enough there is talk the production 7d3 will get 26mp or more.

the D500 is killing it in sales, hell before the D500 came out Canon was having issues of 70D taking sales away from 7d2 back in the day. Canon responded with the sd/wifi card to prolong the 7d2 into 2018 but it is not working as they hoped.

Canon will not wait 5 years to upgrade the 7d2 like they did with the 7d1..

 

[Talys]

dual cards slots will be included. Touch screen but i have not seen a flippy screen just the same screen on the 5d4. Same body and same battery grip as 7d2. units have been tested with 24mp sensor but if canon waits long enough there is talk the production 7d3 will get 26mp or more.

the D500 is killing it in sales, hell before the D500 came out Canon was having issues of 70D taking sales away from 7d2 back in the day. Canon responded with the sd/wifi card to prolong the 7d2 into 2018 but it is not working as they hoped.

Canon will not wait 5 years to upgrade the 7d2 like they did with the 7d1..

The reason that D500 is killing 7D2 in sales is because most people who are interested in APSC stop looking at 80D.

At the moment, there's practically no reason to pick 7D2 over 80D (or, really, even 77D), which is an excellent APSC body. If think that without an articulating screen, a lot of people will STILL choose 80D or its successor -- 7D2 would need some wondrous top line spec bump like 4k video for there to be interest, IMO.

 

[ahsanford]

No thanks to a flippy screen for something that is meant to be out in all types of weather and used 90% through the viewfinder. Even tilting a screen does little to make using it easier in blazing sun, which, in Florida, begins blazing by 7:30a.m. and stays that way for 12 hours.

I don't want a Swiss Army knife of a camera, but one that is designed for high performance in harsh conditions.

I'm really am on the fence with the 7D3 having a tilty-flippy:

It's very simple: video + DPAF says hell yes. I think the 5D4 fixed screen was a poor call for that reason.

But the great outdoors says perhaps not. I'd wager the 7D line gets more environmental abuse than a 5D or 6D camera would, i.e. I think a greater percentage of its user base is out in the bush, on the sidelines at games, etc. That says 'put robustness and durability first' and that the 7D3 might go the 5D4 screen route. (But in fariness, that same logic would argue against a pop-up flash.)

But perhaps in this instance -- if a 7D3 is indeed being brought forward due to D500 sales -- the tilty-flippy decision will have already been made for them by Nikon.

- A

 

[Orangutan]

dual cards slots will be included. Touch screen but i have not seen a flippy screen just the same screen on the 5d4. Same body and same battery grip as 7d2. units have been tested with 24mp sensor but if canon waits long enough there is talk the production 7d3 will get 26mp or more.

the D500 is killing it in sales, hell before the D500 came out Canon was having issues of 70D taking sales away from 7d2 back in the day. Canon responded with the sd/wifi card to prolong the 7d2 into 2018 but it is not working as they hoped.

Canon will not wait 5 years to upgrade the 7d2 like they did with the 7d1..

The reason that D500 is killing 7D2 in sales is because most people who are interested in APSC stop looking at 80D.

At the moment, there's practically no reason to pick 7D2 over 80D (or, really, even 77D), which is an excellent APSC body. If think that without an articulating screen, a lot of people will STILL choose 80D or its successor -- 7D2 would need some wondrous top line spec bump like 4k video for there to be interest, IMO.

This is what vigorous competition does for the buyers -- gives us better goods at lower prices. Let this be a lesson to all the DRones: when Nikon stepped-up in features other than DR, their sales improved.

 

[BillB]

What would the 7DIII niche be in relation to the 80D/90D anyway? Some people will want a more rugged body, with more sophisticated AF in the OVF, along with higher gpd, but how many? How does touchscreen Liveview with DPAF affect the 7DII value proposition?

 

[ahsanford]

dual cards slots will be included. Touch screen but i have not seen a flippy screen just the same screen on the 5d4. Same body and same battery grip as 7d2. units have been tested with 24mp sensor but if canon waits long enough there is talk the production 7d3 will get 26mp or more.

the D500 is killing it in sales, hell before the D500 came out Canon was having issues of 70D taking sales away from 7d2 back in the day. Canon responded with the sd/wifi card to prolong the 7d2 into 2018 but it is not working as they hoped.

Canon will not wait 5 years to upgrade the 7d2 like they did with the 7d1..

The bold bit above is the entire story here. Do we have data to back that up?

I am not doubting you -- it seems a formidable camera -- but do we know it is really kicking Canon's tail or if it is simply bringing the long-neglected Nikon 'pro APS-C' birder/wildlifers back into the fold? Is it stealing market share or is it just a case of shifting faithful Nikonians into a new price point?

We're starved for market data here, so it's hard to peg if:

[list type=decimal]
[*]This rumor is BS


[*]This rumor is true, and Canon is actually accelerating its plans with the 7D3 due to market forces (i.e. the D500)


[*]This rumor is true, and Canon is simply deploying the 7D3 seemingly sooner to us because of the 5 year lifecycle for the 7D1 was an exception*, outlier, etc. and the 7D2 lifecycle is actually more in the line with the other major rigs on a traditional-ish 4 year timetable.

*this pertains to the unique market situation around the whole earthquake / Nikon abandoning the segment without a D300S follow up / the decision to do a firmware 'lifecycle extension' to the 7D1, etc.


[*]This rumor is true, and Canon has found the means/resources to accelerate its development pipeline as it sees the ILC market as having bottomed-out and it believes that now is the time to go big and saturate the market with new bodies. (I'm not buying this at all.)



[*]This rumor is true, but some important new product slated for 2018 had a major delay or problem, and the 7D3 was brought forward to prevent a 'hole' in the pipeline from leaving Canon looking bad next year. (This is wild speculation, feel free to run with this nutty idea )
[/list]

Almost all my money is on #1 above, perhaps #2 -- but again, the public never sees market data in any appreciable depth that would be able to verify this.

Curious to see where everyone's heads are on this. What's your guess?

- A

 

[scyrene]

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Coming First Half of 2018 [CR2]

You can use any camera to shoot birds, but I prefer a APS-C over a 5DSR since I can't fill the frame and need to crop a lot if using a FF... also, the large file of 5DSR is quite discouraging.

The 5Ds(R) has virtually identical pixel density as the 7D2 so you get the same number of pixels on target with the same focal length - there's no 'extra reach' in this case. However, the much larger files from the 5Ds(R), and slower fps may make it a less attractive bird camera for many.

Incidentally, for those discussing moiré, the Digital Picture's 5DsR review has a bird feather example, the -R showing more moiré than the -s, although even the 5D3 shows it in that example: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-5Ds-R.aspx

 

[ahsanford]

What would the 7DIII niche be in relation to the 80D/90D anyway? Some people will want a more rugged body, with more sophisticated AF in the OVF, along with higher gpd, but how many? How does touchscreen Liveview with DPAF affect the 7DII value proposition?

Historically, the XXD line is much more than just tilty-flippy + DPAF. That line is often the second DSLR you buy when your first one gets outdated. It gets conveniences and key upgrades above Rebels (top LCD, AFMA, more buttons, chunkier grip, faster burst, etc.) that enthusiasts crave. I see that platform aimed (generally) at current Rebel owners, but of late with DPAF + tilty-flippy, it lends itself naturally to budding film makers, vloggers, YouTube nation, etc.

The 7D line in my mind is more purpose built for the field -- it is the mini/affordable 1DX-like rig: built for war, high fps and a powerful AF setup. You don't have to shoot action/wildlife with it, of course, but it has that 'lane' covered well for those that do want to cover that.

So the niche is -- if there is a niche -- my 7D camera can shoot at high fps and track varmints / athletes better than that your XXD camera cannot. There are plenty of people who would want that at a healthy $300-400 markup for that.

- A

 

[YuengLinger]

So, apparently, most here are satisfied enough with 7DII IQ to think IQ is a side issue for an upgrade? Of all places in photography where high-ISO sharpness and clarity matter, it's with wildlife in overcast or dawn/dusk light at f/8 and over.

By the time photographers understand and "need" what a 7D series is for, they are ready to start buying more and better lenses. And if somebody has a great long lens and FF, but wants cropped for pixel density (or apparent 1.6x magnification), IQ approaching FF would be a huge attraction.

What I have seen and heard from friends and from shots I've seen all over the Web, and remember from the many reviews when the 7DII came out, the IQ was very little better than the 7D (including noise, sharpness, and DR). Folks had to really strain to see an improvement, often "feeling" it was a bit better. Am I wrong? When did the original 7D come out? About seven years ago? Did we hit the ceiling with Canon IQ on a cropped???