Canon EOS 90D full specifications

[3kramd5]

I'm not the one making the claim that there are a pile of more reasonable explanations why Canon offered p24 in nearly every camera they introduced with video capability for about 8-9 years only to start removing it across the board in the last year or so. If you think there are a bunch of reasonable explanations why cameras capable of p25 can't also do p24 other than the cripple hammer have at it.

I don’t record video, so I have no opinion on whether a decision by canon in that space is reasonable. I do have an opinion about whether the motive you ascribe is likely. If prior non-Cine cameras offered it, then differentiation from the consumer and Cine lines should be put out to pasture.

Since you seem to think that’s the only possible reason, I’d still like to see that of impossibilities you’ve identified.

I hope to see how at least these two topics are demonstrated as impossible:
1) human error (e.g., 24p inadvertently left off the requirements document),
2) technical error (e.g., 24p not working quite right with this configuration at this time and thus left off in favor of release schedule).

 

[neuroanatomist]

I'm not the one making the claim that there are a pile of more reasonable explanations why Canon offered p24 in nearly every camera they introduced with video capability for about 8-9 years only to start removing it across the board in the last year or so. If you think there are a bunch of reasonable explanations why cameras capable of p25 can't also do p24 other than the cripple hammer have at it.

For the umpteenth time, they are NOT removing p24 from their cameras. They are no longer offering 1080p24 in cameras that offer 2160p24.

It’s as if you’re complaining that Canon took away 35-zone monochromatic metering from cameras that now have 256-zone RGB+IR metering. And claiming that constitutes ‘crippling’ those models. And claiming that Canon’s sales will suffer for it. And stomping your feet like a petulant child because you want your precious 35-zone metering back.

Get over it.

 

[Bennymiata]

I think we should wait for some reviews before we criticize it too much.
After all, we are just pissing in the wind without actually seeing for ourselves what it has or does not have.

Personally, I think Canon have improved the sensor and I'm sure this will be a very good camera for 90% of the target market.
I bet it has a few good surprises in store for us.

 

[Stereodude]

I don’t record video, so I have no opinion on whether a decision by canon in that space is reasonable. I do have an opinion about whether the motive you ascribe is likely. If prior non-Cine cameras offered it, then differentiation from the consumer and Cine lines should be put out to pasture.

Not at all. Canon went from class leading video features in their ILCs to class lagging. What happened in the mean time? They started selling Cinema cameras. We can clearly rule out a lack of technical ability as being responsible for the feature lagging since their Cinema cameras have the very features that are missing from their ILCs. They have been slow rolling video features into their ILCs ever since they started selling Cinema cameras. As to why they're only getting around to removing p24 now, it's not hard to explain. Their ILCs video capabilities were getting too close to the Cinema cameras in other picture quality metrics. They can no long cripple the footage in enough other ways to create market separation between the Cinema cameras and their ILCs. They can't get away with selling a camera with an extra crop in 4K anymore. They can't reply on bad rolling shutter now that they've had to improve the sensor readout speed. They can't rely on only shooting MJPEG or any of the other ways they've crippled video in the past. The old ways of crippling the video capabilities are no longer market viable so they've had to move to other methods of creating market separation. This is apparently the one they've settled on.

Canon wouldn't be doing this if they didn't think it was going to make them more money. p24 video is as close to free of a feature to implement on a camera that can already exceed that as there is. Yet, it is being removed from new cameras despite market demand for it. So, how does excluding a feature that effectively costs you no money to include make you more money when it will inevitably cost you some sales of the model it's been excluded from? The belief that doing so protects the sales of other more expensive and higher profit margin models and result in some upsells from people who must have the feature is the only explanation. Apparently someone did the math with highly flawed inputs/assumptions and concluded this was going to make them more profit.

For the umpteenth time, they are NOT removing p24 from their cameras. They are no longer offering 1080p24 in cameras that offer 2160p24.

For the umpteenth time, a lie repeated often enough does not become true, though you seem quite determined to disprove the maxim.

The 90D / M6 II don't do 2160p24. They don't do anything p24. It's been removed/excluded. The G7X III and G5X II don't do anything p24. It's been removed/excluded.

The EOS RP only has 2160p24 because it couldn't do 2160p30 [hardware limitation(s)] and it had to have 4K video on the feature list to be viable in the market. Otherwise it would be similarly missing 2160p24 like it is 1080p24.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The 90D / M6 II don't do 2160p24. They don't do anything p24. It's been removed/excluded. The G7X III and G5X II don't do anything p24. It's been removed/excluded.

Sorry, my mistake.

I guess you’re screwed, p24 is dead.

Evidently, Canon doesn’t think it matters for those models. Evidently, you do. Who do you think knows more about making and selling cameras? Yeah, I thought so.

 

[3kramd5]

We can clearly rule out a lack of technical ability as being responsible for the feature lagging since their Cinema cameras have the very features that are missing from their ILCs.

Agreed. However technical inability is not the same as either of the two topics I raised.

As to why they're only getting around to removing p24 now, it's not hard to explain. Their ILCs video capabilities were getting too close to the Cinema cameras in other picture quality metrics. They can no long cripple the footage in enough other ways to create market separation between the Cinema cameras and their ILCs.

That’s *a* possibility. My objection is that you represented it as the *only* possibility.

This is apparently the one they've settled on.

That’s not apparent.

 

[David - Sydney]

M

No, that’s using what you apparently believe passes for logic.

Your contention is that people who might buy an EOS Cinema camera would buy a 90D instead is ludicrous. By your logic, a heated steering wheel is not available on the Yaris because Toyota doesn’t want people buying it instead of the Lexus RS series.

My RC350 doesn't have a heated steering wheel but it isn't too cold here

 

[David - Sydney]

Sorry, my mistake.

I guess you’re screwed, p24 is dead.

Evidently, Canon doesn’t think it matters for those models. Evidently, you do. Who do you think knows more about making and selling cameras? Yeah, I thought so.

I'm not a video guy but IF p24 is critical and memory cards are cheap... Couldn't you record 1024p120 and then discard 5 of the 6 frames in post? A second step and takes time but if it is critical....

 

[neuroanatomist]

I'm not a video guy but IF p24 is critical and memory cards are cheap... Couldn't you record 1024p120 and then discard 5 of the 6 frames in post? A second step and takes time but if it is critical....

Sure, it’s possible to convert frame rates. But for some, it’s not an option from a philosophical standpoint. p24 is the Cinematic frame rate, capital ‘C’. Anything else isn’t pure.

Maybe Nikon will release the Nikon Vf, a DSLR that doesn’t capture still images, only p24 video. For Pure Videography.

 

[David - Sydney]

Sure, it’s possible to convert frame rates. But for some, it’s not an option from a philosophical standpoint. p24 is the Cinematic frame rate, capital ‘C’. Anything else isn’t pure.

Maybe Nikon will release the Nikon Vf, a DSLR that doesn’t capture still images, only p24 video. For Pure Videography.

But p120 to p24 isn't a conversion. It is just picking every 5th frame in the sequence. should be no jitter for instance

 

[NetMage]

The 90D / M6 II don't do 2160p24. They don't do anything p24. It's been removed/excluded. The G7X III and G5X II don't do anything p24. It's been removed/excluded.

And you know this how? You've used one?

 

[neuroanatomist]

But p120 to p24 isn't a conversion. It is just picking every 5th frame in the sequence. should be no jitter for instance

Makes perfect sense to me. But then, I’m not a video guy either.

Nor am the one lamenting the omission of p24, ascribing malicious motives to Canon for doing so, or claiming that Canon's sales are ‘in a death spiral’ due to the lack of p24. Nor am I the guy who, when asked repeatedly to describe the advantages of p24 by several posters (who, like you and I are not video guys), finally came up with this pithy answer:

Other frames rates don't look like p24, which why you shoot at p24.

 

[SecureGSM]

Whining isn't going to change anything. I'm just explaining what I see as Canon's point of view on the feature. You are welcome to disagree, but it isn't going to change what they do.

Who is winning? Someone is being silly and that isn’t me.
I have just pointed out that logic suggests that Canon’s designations of the second memory card option is not what you thought it is.
I do not literary care about second card slot in R or RP. I am not in market for one of those
However, the pro level R body will be offered with a second card slot as a redundancy or process continuity feature. : shoot to multiple cards or switch card automatically when first card is full.

 

[Stereodude]

And you know this how? You've used one?

I read the spec sheets and watched the promo videos. They don't do p24.

I'm not a video guy but IF p24 is critical and memory cards are cheap... Couldn't you record 1024p120 and then discard 5 of the 6 frames in post? A second step and takes time but if it is critical....

Because it doesn't work like that. You can't shoot with a desired 180 degree shutter for p24(~1/50th of a second) at p120. Additionally you get no AF and a crop at p120 in the 90D.

 

[Stereodude]

That’s *a* possibility. My objection is that you represented it as the *only* possibility.

And yet neither you or anyone else has presented a more feasible alternative theory. In fact, no one has presented any alternative theory. But keep insisting that the obvious conclusion is wrong.

 

[Scenes]

Am I right in thinking the 80D didn’t have 24fps ? In which the market for this camera isn’t going to miss what they never had.

 

[Stereodude]

Evidently, Canon doesn’t think it matters for those models. Evidently, you do. Who do you think knows more about making and selling cameras? Yeah, I thought so.

No, Canon thinks they can make more money by not having the feature on these models. Unless you're going to try to argue that Canon isn't driven by the pursuit of profit but rather altruism.

Am I right in thinking the 80D didn’t have 24fps ? In which the market for this camera isn’t going to miss what they never had.

No, you're not right. It would have taken you all of 15 seconds to confirm that the 80D, like every ILC camera released by Canon since the 5D2 except for 2 early Rebel models had p24 (prior to the 90D and M6 II).

 

[3kramd5]

And yet neither you or anyone else has presented a more feasible alternative theory. In fact, no one has presented any alternative theory. But keep insisting that the obvious conclusion is wrong.

I gave you two feasible alternatives.
Another is: arbitrary decision unrelated to the Cine line. However, I’m not the one who claimed to have ruled out all but one possibility. The onus is on you.

And note, I didn’t insist your conclusion is wrong. I merely find it far-fetched.

Human error is, IMO, far more plausible than canon’s leadership thinking that 24p is all that someone buying a dedicated cinema camera cares about, and that but for it being in a 90D, people who have historically built up film rigs would abandon the form factor in favor of an SLR, and that by withholding it, those customers will continue buying 5-figure cameras from canon and not jump to another make who offers 24p cheaply. If indeed they believe that, I cannot explain their market success.

 

[genriquez]

It is strange that they dropped 24p. But 25p is there. FWIW most films are recorded at 24p and then processed up to 30fps for NTSC when viewed on a TV. So one can record at 25p and process for NTSC. For other viewing platforms you can just keep it at 25p. Is 24p vastly different from 25p?

 

[slclick]