Canon EOS R3 to have a 30mp sensor? [CR1]

AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
8,277
10,347
Depends on the resolution of the lens. Once that limit is reached, it can't resolve more line pairs even if the resolution of the sensor gets higher. If a lens can resolve 5,000 lines or so, that is already quite a lot. If you make sure that the sensor has a lower resolution that the lens, you have a high chance of very crisp looking photos.

Even some L-lenses have a low resoultion. For example the famous 17-40 f/4. If I would put that on a higher resolution body, it might be somewhat sharper in the center, but the rest would look like an already blur photo upsampled even further. For 45 megapixels or even more, you really need very sharp and very expensive lenses.

I really like my Tamron 200-500, because it is very light and affordable, but on a 45 megapixel body the photos would look blurry. I would have to downsample all of them to make them look better. And even with the sharpest lens, hot air will spoil your image.
The combined resolution of the sensor and the lens is MTF = MTF(lens)*MTF(sensor). The combination of the same lens with a higher resolution sensor will always outresolve the combination of that lens with a lower resolution sensor unless the MTF of the lens is zero.
 

cayenne

EOS R6
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,620
584
I don't do credit cards, which is what PayBoo is.
It's B&H's in store card.

I don't carry balances on credit cards, but I have them.

I use them just for this purpose....to get my sales tax "paid for".
I use it to get the cash pack percentage on my purchases.

The only exception for carrying any balance on a card, is my Apple Card...in that when I buy their products with that card, I get 3% off AND I get 24 months interest free to pay it off.
That being said, I don't buy anything I don't have the cash for....but why not do the interest free, take the 3% back and put that money into any type of interest bearing account and make money off their money...etc.

I understand where you're coming from....I was in dept once and will never be again willingly. I save to buy...but I don't mind having credit cards because I never carry a balance on them, I use them like cash I pay off in 30 days.

C
 

usern4cr

R5
CR Pro
Sep 2, 2018
1,157
1,908
Kentucky, USA
Northrup is an infotainer who’s job is to generate income from clickthroughs.

Yes, everyone makes mistakes. but when someone points out your mistake, you admit that you were wrong and move on. If instead, like Northrup, you double down on your mistake in the comments section of the original post and further in subsequent posts, IMO you’ve totally lost credibility.

But the beauty of the Internet is that if you want to read the National Enquirer for factual information about alien-celebrity hybrid babies or visit Northrup’s feed for camera technical information, you are free to do so. Caveat emptor.
I do grant that TN is an infotainer, etc. I haven't read his subsequent comments, and would hope that if he repeats something that's incorrect that it's because he is mistaken and didn't know it. If he did know he was wrong and repeated it then that would be shameful, indeed. But how would I know which is which?

I don't use TN for factual information, personally. But I do find his posts interesting and it seems that he is doing his best to be correct. There are indeed times when I disagree with him, but that is true of anyone, and there are times I am wrong. In those cases I am glad to be corrected and will admit it appropriately.

Anyway, we can all be happy that Canon is coming out with the R3 and other bodies & lenses. Now that they've finally put BSI into their FF sensors I think we will see some amazing improvements in what they come out with. It's a great time to buy their cameras, provided you can afford them.
 
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cayenne

EOS R6
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,620
584
So Mardi Gras was the same as usual in 2021? That's not what I heard.
No.....it has been in the last 2-3 months or so things pretty much fully opened.

Orleans parish was a bit more cautious that the surrounding ones and rest of the state.

Mask mandates lifted and vaccinations were going on...

However, many of our festivals ARE going to be held delayed this year.

Our BIG ones, French Quarter Fest and JazzFest will be Sept/Oct....I plan to be on Jazzfest photog staff.

07/03/2021 - French Market Creole Tomato Festival
07/10/2021 - Running of the Bulls
07/14/2021 - COOLinary New Orleans
07/31/2021 - Satchmo SummerFest
08/07/2021 - Hancock Whitney White Linen Night
09/02/2021 - Southern Decadence
09/20/2021 - Tales of the Cocktail (Virtual)
09/23/2021 - Top Taco
09/25/2021 - Beignet Festival
09/30/2021 - French Quarter Festival
10/08/2021 - New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival
10/21/2021 - New Orleans Book Festival
10/22/2021 - BUKU: PLANET B
10/23/2021 - Krewe of Boo
10/23/2021 - National Fried Chicken Fest
10/23/2021 - Prospect.5 - Yesterday We Said Tomorrow
10/31/2021 - Halloween
11/04/2021 - Bayou Bacchanal
11/05/2021 - Greek Fest

They did postpone VooDoo Fest till next year....but we're coming back to life here with our Festivals.

I anticipate that Mardi Gras will be back to normal next year...in fact, if all goes well, I would guess it will be one of the LARGEST celebrations we've had down here in decades. This stuff is VERY important to the people here.

We're used to eating, drinking, dancing and having fun with each other in this city.
 

usern4cr

R5
CR Pro
Sep 2, 2018
1,157
1,908
Kentucky, USA
Nah....just get the PayBoo card at B&H and that nixes your sales tax.....
I'll second that. I've enjoyed using PayBoo as it's a legal way to buy stuff without (you) having to pay sales tax. It's an interesting loophole they use where they still advertise the MSRP price and you still pay the MSRP price, and the state sales tax is still paid. It's just that B&H pays the sales tax (which varies greatly from state-to-state) for you.
 

cayenne

EOS R6
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,620
584
I'll second that. I've enjoyed using PayBoo as it's a legal way to buy stuff without (you) having to pay sales tax. It's an interesting loophole they use where they still advertise the MSRP price and you still pay the MSRP price, and the state sales tax is still paid. It's just that B&H pays the sales tax (which varies greatly from state-to-state) for you.
This was a NOT insignificant savings on the GFX100 I got from them.

In fact, pretty much any large large ticket item especially, I buy form B&H.

And their shipping is actually pretty surprisingly quick too, from NY to Nola...I get it usually in a business week at least, or better.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,738
1,289
Lower noise, higher dymamic range and higher f-stop possible before diffraction is visible on a pixel level.
The first two are observably false with current sensors when the comparison is made at the same view size.

As to the third: I have not found diffraction to be an issue. Say you pit a 5DsR (DLA of f/6.7) against a 5D3 (DLA of f/10.1). The 5DsR is still going to produce the sharper, more detailed file at f/8, f/11, and f/16. At f/22 diffraction is hitting both pretty hard, but you still haven't lost anything for shooting the higher resolution sensor. Same is going to be true with the R5 and R6. People tend to interpret DLA as a hard limit when it simply is not.

Now if someone just doesn't need or care about higher resolution files, by all means save some money and give yourself a little extra room on shutter speed with the lower resolution model. 20-30mp is nothing to sneeze at. An R6 can handle most subject/print size combos easily. But the flip side is that higher resolution sensors are not crippled any time you're out without a tripod or have to stop down to f/11. If you want that level of detail for whatever reason (large prints; cropping; reach) it works very well.
 
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dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,738
1,289
Even some L-lenses have a low resoultion. For example the famous 17-40 f/4. If I would put that on a higher resolution body, it might be somewhat sharper in the center, but the rest would look like an already blur photo upsampled even further.
I owned the 17-40L when I added the 5Ds. I thought I would hate it on the 5Ds based on edge performance on crop bodies (which was really mid-frame performance). In practice it seemed better on the 5Ds. If you Google Bob Atkins review of the 5Ds you will see the same thing when he puts the cheapest consumer lens he can on a 6D and then on a 5Ds.

I believe Alan points this out in a later reply: optical system resolution is always worse than the weakest component. But improving any component will improve the final result.
 
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canonmike

EOS R6
CR Pro
Jan 5, 2013
322
273
It's B&H's in store card.

I don't carry balances on credit cards, but I have them.

I use them just for this purpose....to get my sales tax "paid for".
I use it to get the cash pack percentage on my purchases.

The only exception for carrying any balance on a card, is my Apple Card...in that when I buy their products with that card, I get 3% off AND I get 24 months interest free to pay it off.
That being said, I don't buy anything I don't have the cash for....but why not do the interest free, take the 3% back and put that money into any type of interest bearing account and make money off their money...etc.

I understand where you're coming from....I was in dept once and will never be again willingly. I save to buy...but I don't mind having credit cards because I never carry a balance on them, I use them like cash I pay off in 30 days.

C
I do the same. Pay with Pay Boo to get the immediate sales tax credit when purchasing. Then, when I receive the product, I immed pay it off to avoid any interest charges. I'm sure that Synchrony Bank is hoping you don't pay the balance off, so they can get the high interest return on unpaid balances and I'm sure that's what some buyers do. Good system for me, especially on high ticket items. Buy it using Pay Boo. Pay it off immediately.
 

JohnC

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Sep 22, 2019
171
187
Gainesville,GA
I do the same. Pay with Pay Boo to get the immediate sales tax credit when purchasing. Then, when I receive the product, I immed pay it off to avoid any interest charges. I'm sure that Synchrony Bank is hoping you don't pay the balance off, so they can get the high interest return on unpaid balances and I'm sure that's what some buyers do. Good system for me, especially on high ticket items. Buy it using Pay Boo. Pay it off immediately.
Yes, works like a charm. And very nice (and smart) of Bh to set that up when the tax laws changed.
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,578
3,975
Irving, Texas
My condolences (sincerely). I hope you have gotten the vaccines. We have them now, after hiding away for a year. While I now feel freed, I try not to talk too much about it as so many others in the world have not had the option to choose that we have had.
Thankfully, we got the vaccine (Moderna) almost immediately upon moving to Arkansas from Texas. Texas never contacted us though we were registered months ago. Here, we set an appointment and got it within a week.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,657
2,142
You also seem to suffer from a failure of imagination. Those who shoot at 30fps are not looking for 30 keepers in that second. Rather, they are hoping to get the perfect capture in an action sequence. The instance the bat hits the ball (if you've ever shot a baseball game, you know how difficult that is), a cornerback reaching in and taking a football away from a wideout, a barn swallow cavorting in midair, or killer whales playing "catch" with a seal. So, yes, there is value to a fast burst rate, but if you had understood my clear statements, you would have notice that I find 20fps adequate.

Since the bat and ball are only in contact for about 1/2000 or less, even 30 fps is still a crap shoot.

I seem to have been misinformed regarding the α1 body's ability to track subjects between frames at 30 fps. I haven't seen one out in the wild anywhere. I have (briefly) a few times handled and shot the α9 and α9 II and they certainly are more limited when subject tracking between frames is required.

Even at 10 fps one can catch peak action. One just has to work harder and have better timing to get it. Some of us learned it back in the days of "blazing fast" 2.5 fps film winders.
 

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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,657
2,142
Before I purchased my own R5 and a CFExpress card I did many days of testing my friends' R5. I used my high-end UHS_II SD cards (Sony Tough and Delkin Power). I really had no issues running into buffer stall. Sure CFe makes the write light go out faster but you really have to be pushing your bursts for a long while in order to get a pause in the FPS.

If we look at data rates R5: 20x45=900.....take a guess what 30x30 equals ;)

I usually prefer matching fast slots over two different slots. I certainly valued that on my 1DX. But at that point in time it really did affect you if you had to use the slower SD slot in other mixed cameras or shoot mirrored. With the R5 I just wasn't affected by using SD cards. With my A1 doing 30x50 I'm also only using UHS-SDII cards and also have never hit the buffer or stalled out my FPS. Sony made some major writing improvements compared to my previous A9II and A7RIV. CFe-A would be nice back on the computer but way too expensive at this time.

I think the mixed slot CFe-A/SD is a great slot. Gives maximum choice for people who want the fastest possible or the slow, old cards. But CFe-B is faster so a similar slot designed to do CFe-B/SD would be ideal.

It's good to hear the R5 is not suffering from the same issue when writing to two dissimilar cards as the DSLR 1-Series, 5-Series, and 7D Mark II did.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,657
2,142
It's B&H's in store card.

I don't carry balances on credit cards, but I have them.

I use them just for this purpose....to get my sales tax "paid for".
I use it to get the cash pack percentage on my purchases.

The only exception for carrying any balance on a card, is my Apple Card...in that when I buy their products with that card, I get 3% off AND I get 24 months interest free to pay it off.
That being said, I don't buy anything I don't have the cash for....but why not do the interest free, take the 3% back and put that money into any type of interest bearing account and make money off their money...etc.

I understand where you're coming from....I was in dept once and will never be again willingly. I save to buy...but I don't mind having credit cards because I never carry a balance on them, I use them like cash I pay off in 30 days.

C

Read the fine print. B&H is not the issuer of the card, Synchrony Bank is.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,657
2,142
I do the same. Pay with Pay Boo to get the immediate sales tax credit when purchasing. Then, when I receive the product, I immed pay it off to avoid any interest charges. I'm sure that Synchrony Bank is hoping you don't pay the balance off, so they can get the high interest return on unpaid balances and I'm sure that's what some buyers do. Good system for me, especially on high ticket items. Buy it using Pay Boo. Pay it off immediately.

The reason I stopped messing with them at all was due to the way CitiBank did back in 2001 after 9/11 and then the Antrax mailer.

Without telling anyone, they stockpiled their mail (including my payment that had been mailed two weeks before it was due) in a warehouse in Nevada claiming they couldn't open it due to the possibility of their workers being exposed to Anthrax. When my check had not cleared two days before it was due I called their customer service line and asked for a street address so I could FedEx them another check. The CSR assured me since I had never been late with a payment they would waive the late charge if it was a few days late. What he did not say was that they were going to jack my interest rate from 2.9% to 26%, report me to the credit bureaus for one late payment (that had been in their possession before it was due), and cause a domino effect on every card I carried going from low single digit interest rates to near 30%. Admittedly, at the time I had recently been on the verge of being overextended but with the low interest rates was on track to whittle the balances down in only 3-4 years until my interest rates ballooned and the minimum payments tripled yet still didn't even cover the interest at 26-28%.

It ruined my financial life for the next 5-7 years. Only months later did the news come out that they had stored a months worth of mail the USPS had delivered without opening it.

I refuse to ever give any of them another chance to claim they didn't receive a payment and then screw me over like that again. Never.
 
Last edited:
Aug 7, 2018
227
180
The first two are observably false with current sensors when the comparison is made at the same view size.

As to the third: I have not found diffraction to be an issue. Say you pit a 5DsR (DLA of f/6.7) against a 5D3 (DLA of f/10.1). The 5DsR is still going to produce the sharper, more detailed file at f/8, f/11, and f/16. At f/22 diffraction is hitting both pretty hard, but you still haven't lost anything for shooting the higher resolution sensor. Same is going to be true with the R5 and R6. People tend to interpret DLA as a hard limit when it simply is not.

Now if someone just doesn't need or care about higher resolution files, by all means save some money and give yourself a little extra room on shutter speed with the lower resolution model. 20-30mp is nothing to sneeze at. An R6 can handle most subject/print size combos easily. But the flip side is that higher resolution sensors are not crippled any time you're out without a tripod or have to stop down to f/11. If you want that level of detail for whatever reason (large prints; cropping; reach) it works very well.
I understand that under optimal circumstances details will grow with a higher resolution sensor, but in most cases not as much as the resolution grows. The problem is that chasing those best circumstances will influence your photography. While on a 20 megapixel sensor it might not make a difference if you do a photo hand held or with a tripod, you might notice a much bigger difference with 60 megapixels. As a result you might take your tripod with you much often. The same is true with exposure times. If at 20 megapixels not difference can be seen between 1/10 sec and 1/20 sec with IBIS, you might notice a difference at 60 megapixels. So you will not use 1/10 sec anymore. The same is true with depths of field. At 60 megapixels you might notice the background becoming less sharp. So you need a higher f-stop.

If I sometimes do a photo just for Instagram, I feel the comfort of only having to produce enough detail for 1.46 megapixels. At that resolution it is not very hard to take a sharp photo even at night without a tripod while you are moving. For example a night shot of a city from a moving ferris wheel. Basically everything works. A high resolution is the other extreme. If you really want a photo that makes use of that resolution and not only one that can compete with a 20 megapixel photo if you downsample it, you lose a lot of your photographic freedom.

And again seeing two photos with different resolutions at the same "view size" is cheating. It basically means that you are downsampling the larger photo. Of course I could buy a 60 megapixel camera and then downsample all my photos to 20 megapixels, but then I would throw away image data and it is another step of work.

You talked about "saving some money". I hope that high megapixel cameras do NOT cost more than the low megapixel models in future. That would be a bad sign suggesting that low megapixel bodies are somehow inferior. I always loved that in the DSLR world the most expensive Canon body had a lower resolution than even the cheap 2000D. I hope it stays that way. Of course I rather spend less money than more, but then people would argue that I only have the low resolution model, because I can't or don't want to pay the higher price.
 

Billybob

800mm f/11 because a cellphone isn't long enough!
May 22, 2016
190
374
Since the bat and ball are only in contact for about 1/2000 or less, even 30 fps is still a crap shoot.

I seem to have been misinformed regarding the α1 body's ability to track subjects between frames at 30 fps. I haven't seen one out in the wild anywhere. I have (briefly) a few times handled and shot the α9 and α9 II and they certainly are more limited when subject tracking between frames is required.

Even at 10 fps one can catch peak action. One just has to work harder and have better timing to get it. Some of us learned it back in the days of "blazing fast" 2.5 fps film winders.
Nice shots.

Of course past success of someone skilled in the use of old tech is not an argument against using advanced tech. In fact, lol, your comment about baseball hitting seems to argue in favor of even greater burst rates!

Regardless, I remain impressed by Sony's ability to move that much data at 30fps with tracking AF. It is an amazing accomplishment. However, if one of the big three can give me 40MP frames at 20fps with excellent tracking AF--AF tracking accuracy on par with the a1--in a package with ergonomics that are superior to those of the a1 (let's start with an integrated grip), then I'm on board.