Canon EOS R3 to have a 30mp sensor? [CR1]

[Aussie shooter]

The 30mp sensor seems a bit boring to me. Is this supposed to be an update over the R5? I’m not so sure it is. Can we assume “raw” would have to be a crop, since oversampled 4K would not be “raw”?
This is shaping up to be a pass for me. I’ll wait and see what the R1 brings before making any decisions. I’m in no hurry. My current cameras are pretty awesome.

What is it that makes people think this is an 'upgrade' from another camera like the R5? It isn't!!! It is a DIFFERENT camera for DIFFERENT purposes. Megapickles do not the camera make. I just cant understand the mentality that everything has to be some sort of trade in upgrade. if a status symbol is what you want then go get a LIECA or 100mp MF body. If not, then see the various options out there as exactly that. OPTIONS. Not replacements.

 

[unfocused]

It is kinda sad that we don't talk about DR anymore. That's all we used to do even a couple of years ago and it was so much fun. Those were the golden days of CR.

Just think of all those lens cap pictures sitting there wasted.

 

[Czardoom]

I guess it shows how good the A1 is to do 50MP at 30fps. Unlike you, I haven't felt it with the A7RIV. I just can't seem to get the AF settings right, and the RIV doesn't mate well with the 100-600G lens. By contrast, the Nikon Z9 promises to be 40-50MP and 20fps. To be honest, I'm okay with 20fps as long as the resolution is decently high. However, if the Z9 doesn't tick all the other boxes, then I'll either have to hope for a high-resolution stacked-sensor Canon camera (I too am pessimistic that the R1 will be high-resolution), or give the A1 another look.

Well, like most Sony specs, the 30 FPS are impressive on paper, but in real life shooting, you need to have the camera set just so, can't use tracking, must have compatable lenses, etc, to get it to work. Sony is smart, though. Almost every review or camera comparison says 30 FPS, which beats all the competition. They don't bother getting into all the requirements or circumstances where you won't get the 30 FPS. Other brands are probably catching on. have a spec that only works in a few situations, but looks great on a chart of specs or a YouTube review.

 

[Czardoom]

What is it that makes people think this is an 'upgrade' from another camera like the R5? It isn't!!! It is a DIFFERENT camera for DIFFERENT purposes. Megapickles do not the camera make. I just cant understand the mentality that everything has to be some sort of trade in upgrade. if a status symbol is what you want then go get a LIECA or 100mp MF body. If not, then see the various options out there as exactly that. OPTIONS. Not replacements.

Please, there is no place for such a rational and correct opinion on CR.

 

[Mr Majestyk]

I can live with 30MP if the AF is a clear upgrade form th already excellent R5. Disappointed it isn't a little higher, 36MP would have been excellent, but as long at it's not 20-24MP that'll ok. Just wish they'd do a lens roadmap and tell us when the 500 f/4 and 300 f/2.8 are coming.

 

[honeyiscool]

I actually sold my R5 to buy an R6 because 99% of the time, good 20 megapixels is preferable for me than 45 megapixels and at the burst rate that the R5 has, it was really hard to have shutter discipline, and I didn't need to be burning 5 gigs just to get some cat pictures. Plus, at the time, the R5 could be sold at zero loss because the stock was so low.

I'm amazed that people actually want 45 megapixels. My life is so much easier with 20 megapixels because images process more than twice as fast now, and upload times, upload bandwidth, and disk space needs are reduced by half. And it's still way more than I need. If you have a 6K monitor, you can actually see 20 megapixels, but how many people do I know with 20 megapixels? And I have a very modern computer that is faster than most people's computers.

I do wish that my R6 was 25.2 megapixels, by the way, which is the magical number it would need for the APS-C crop to be a 1:1 4K readout, but anything beyond that is so extra for me right now. I do think 30 megapixels would be a wonderful sweet spot for many, though, because it allows a little bit of cropping while still having way more resolution than necessary, but honestly, be careful what you wish for with numbers greater than 30. I had an M6 Mark II before this, and I always thought that the 32 megapixels just needlessly made the files bigger.

 

[GoldWing]

Why wait?

Start dumping on the R1 now, because most here pretty much expect you will anyway.

I have faith that the R1 will have what I'm seeking for our agency. It will not be a low MP camera and it will allow the user to adjust file size to accomodate a greater range of resolution than any other camera before it, with its focusing and tracking abilities. It will change the industry and the standards of resolution, of sports photography forever. Everyone will want the camera. Everyone!!! People will leave SONY and Nikon in droves. The R1 will be be just as good for BIF, Sports and NYFW. It will be a camera for "photographers"

 

[Ozarker]

I'm sorry for your loss CFB buddy. I too had it hit home in a few manners. I will gladly do the simple and gracious thing to do (mask up) anytime. It's friendly, neighborly and patriotic. Anything less is partisan/sick religious nutcase level.

Thank you, and you’re right. I still mask up even though I’m fully vaccinated. Why? As an example of protecting others… including my as yet unvaccinated grandson. I don’t want him developing the snotty “I don’t know those people, so they don’t matter” attitude.

Guy came up to me in Walmart just last week and says, “Why are you wearing a mask? Are you too scared for freedom? Are you hoping for socialism?” Lots of those people around here.

I replied, “The dead aren’t free. Why don’t you go out to the parking lot and cut the seatbelts out of your car, drive home and get rid of your home locks, rip out your breakers and wire it all direct. Then start drinking straight out of the White River. Now F-OFF!” It would not have made sense to politely reason with him.

 

[Michael Clark]

I am jealous of the low prices in some countries. Here in germany the R5 is 4,499 Euros in most stores. The cheapest offer at the moment is 4,379 Euros. The cheapest price of the 1D X is 7,114. Only the R6 is quite cheap at the moment with 2,279 Euros because of the Canon Cashback. I am sure that the R3 will cost at least 6,000 Euros in Germany and the R1 mights be close to 9,000 Euros, if the 8,500 dollars are true for the US.

Maybe it would be worth buying those cameras in a low price country. Even with the costs of a flight they might still be cheaper. Customs in Germany could cause problems those.

Once sales tax is added, most of us here in the U.S. pay about $4,200-4,300 for the R5 at $3,899 retail.

 

[Michael Clark]

I believe the R1 will have not less than 80 mp and will be able to pixel bin to 20 mp. My opinion is that the R1 will not be a sports oriented camera but a studio camera with global shutter to flash sync at any speed.

Just because the 1DX3 is sports oriented, that doesn't mean the R1 has to be. Canon hasn't had an R3 type camera, so their lineup is shifting. With the R3 as their pro sports/PJ camera, the R1 will be their high resolution pro studio camera.

I'm not sure about 80 MP, but I do agree with the general principle that the R1 will be more of a 1Ds type of camera than a 1D.

 

[Michael Clark]

I am 100% sure that I have no idea what the R1 will be (if there is an R1 -- as Canon has yet to say anything that would indicate they even plan an R1).

The specs of the R3 that we know of so far would indicate that the R3 will be a better camera for sports than the 1DxIII in my opinion as a 1DxIII owner and sports shooter.

The idea that the R1 would be a "studio" camera is kind of silly -- the traditional specs of 1 series cameras offer very little for studio shooters and in fact if you watch any videos from top studio/fashion/wedding photographers, they almost all seem to use 5 series cameras.

No doubt, if there is an R1 in the cards, it will be the best of the best, but what that entails I have no idea, other than it would have two CF Express slots, which is hardly enough on its own to differentiate it from the R3.

If I had to guess, I would predict that whatever else the R1 is, its primary target audience will not be professionals, but rather enthusiasts who have wads of money to spend for the right to say they own the best. What Canon might put into such a camera, I have no idea.

Many of the studio/fashion/wedding photographers that now use 5-Series cameras were using 1Ds models prior to 2012.

With the discontinuation of the 5Ds in 2012 the 5D Mark III became the preferred camera for many who shoot those use cases.

Before the 1D X (2012) there was the 1D (2001), 1D Mark II (2004), 1D Mark IIn (2005), 1D Mark III (2007), and 1D Mark IV (2009) that were lower resolution APS-H sensored cameras that handled fast (relatively speaking for their time) for sports and PJ. There were also the 1Ds (2002), 1Ds Mark III (2004), and 1Ds Mark III (2007) that were higher resolution (again relatively speaking) FF cameras that handled a little slower and were used for studio work, weddings, fashion, etc.

When the 1-Series was combined into the 18 MP 1D X in 2002, the 5D Mark III, also introduced in 2012, became the successor to the 22 MP 1Ds Mark III. The 5Ds and 5DsR in 2015 raised the bar to 50MP and the 5D Mark IV in 2016 gave a middle ground of 30 MP and handling speed between the 1D X Mark II (2016) and the 5Ds/5Ds R.

 

[Michael Clark]

If I had to guess, I would predict that whatever else the R1 is, its primary target audience will not be professionals, but rather enthusiasts who have wads of money to spend for the right to say they own the best. What Canon might put into such a camera, I have no idea.

It seems to me that Canon's entire product line is moving in that direction as the number of professional photographers (i.e. those who do it full-time as their primary source of income) continues to dwindle.

The only question for the different product lines is 1) How much are you willing to spend and 2) What do you like to shoot (regardless of whether that use case has the potential to generate revenue for anyone).

 

[Michael Clark]

In my opinion, people are making too much of this. If your goal is to write to both cards as a backup, the solution is simple. Write to the CF Express card in raw and write to the SD card in JPG. Since the SD card is there as a backup only, the JPGs can be used to salvage the images if for some reason the CFExpress card fails. JPGs aren't ideal, but they aren't as unusable as some people think. If you aren't competent enough to get a good image in Photoshop out of a JPG, that's your problem, not Canon's.

The main problem with that is that in every previous Canon model with two different types of cards (almost all of the two-card cameras), if the slower card is being written to, the faster card bus also slows down to the same write speed as the slower card bus. So even if one is only writing smaller JPEG files to the SD card, the CF card (in previous models) would also slow down the speed with which it was writing the larger raw files to the CF card.

 

[Prefocus]

Comparing German prices to prices with Texas VAT, I'd save 1.200 $ on a R5 purchase and almost another 850 $ on a RF 100-500mm. That's insane! Even in Switzerland the prices are way cheaper, I read up on it online. And Canon Germany doesn't really have a tempting cash back program because even if the "EOS plus X" cash back (360 $ off the RF 100-500mm price) you'd still pay nearly 2k$ EXTRA on the already hefty RF price tag... Therefore, the cheaper Sony offerings are very tempting for some people over here...

I'll go back to the states this summer, but with the new lenses all on backorder, I don't know whether I'll get one or not....

Edit: posted before my first coffee :/ (always reread the post you are answering :/ )

Just had a look and excluding tax there is a US$345 price gap in the Canon stores for the 100-500 as you said. Don’t get me wrong, I still think a 10% price gap is ridiculous. Do not know where it comes from, though. Import tax or just Canon ripping of the Germans/(Europeans?)

 

[Michael Clark]

In many cases (but by no means all) food is not subject to sales tax (which is the kind of tax you are thinking of). And some states don't have sales tax at all.

A few states do not charge the same sales tax rate on food as they do on most other retail goods, and even fewer charge no sales tax on food. But that is the exception rather than the rule. The majority of states charge full sales tax for food. Even in most states that do have the different schedules for "food", the grocery stores have to classify whether a product is a "prepared" item (i.e. a frozen dinner or a box of cookies) that is charged full sales tax or a "raw ingredient" item (i.e. eggs or flour) that is charged reduced or no sales tax.

Update: I checked and more states now have reduced/no sales tax on unprepared food than the last time I looked.

States who charge full sales tax on all grocery items: Alabama, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Oklahoma, and South Dakota.

States who charge reduced sales tax on grocery products considered "ingredients". Prepared foods are still taxed at the normal rate: Arkansas, Georgia, Maine, Missouri, Illinois, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Utah.

States that exempt groceries from all sales tax. Foods considered "prepared" are usually still taxed: Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, DC, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Ohio, Maryland, Mass., Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Texas, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

States with no sales tax on anything: Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon. (These four states combined include roughly 2.3% of the U.S. population.)

 

[Michael Clark]

Okay I see this often and don't get it. I have the R5 and I like that I have the split cards. How would I ever out run the buffer for RAW photos on a UHS II SD card? Has anyone? I shoot redundant with no issues. I guess the only criticism I could see is the inability to record redundant video, but most complaints I see focus on slowing down the RAW image buffer which I don't get. I like being able to invest my money in both formats. If both the R5 slots were CFExpress it would have effectively made it a one card slot camera for me for a good while.

How many frames do you usually shoot in a continuous burst at maximum frame rate?

 

[maulanawale]

Interesting, I've heard others that are also not happy with the A7RIV and the 200-600. Personally that lens is nearly always on the A7RIV and my 100-400 has been sitting in the bag. This is mostly due to the fact that I'm nearly always needing longer than 400mm and still need to crop. This combo is not quite as sharp as the Canon R5 with the 500 f/4 but it is such a versatile range in a reasonably light weight package.

Yep, I'm one of those that never got along well with the A7RIV + 200-600 combo, granted it could have been a biological interface error, but I always had the feeling that the camera is extremely sensitive to the slightest shake and its IBIS is very poor. Had much better results with the A7III and even better results with the Oly EM1X when shooting handheld. Goes to show that we all value different specs differently I guess, to me, a top of the line IBIS seems to be the deal breaker well over resolution.

Regarding the R3, 30MPX hits the spot for me (as if it matters what I think ). As someone has mentioned, will allow me to keep the rest of my workflow untouched without the need for a new laptop and without messing up my HD/backup lifecycle too much.

I'm honestly happy to see how varied opinions are here, with some of us all in for the R3 and others clamouring for higher res, it's proof that the market still has places to go and is not as stuck as it seemed to be. Of course I feel the pain of those disappointed, but it's just a matter of waiting and is not like there isn't an R5 option.
I also think it is a smart move from Canon. It is way easier to convince someone like me, that's happy with 30MPX, to bite the bullet and get a 60,70,80 mpx body than the other way around. This way they ensure they maintain market segmentation and probably even have some individuals (pros and deep pocketed enthusiast) buy the lower res and higher res models.

 

[symmar22]

That 20-21% VAT really hurts, doesn’t it?

Yes, but when it hurts too much we are taken care of for free by an excellent health system.....

 

[koenkooi]

Edit: posted before my first coffee :/ (always reread the post you are answering :/ )

Just had a look and excluding tax there is a US$345 price gap in the Canon stores for the 100-500 as you said. Don’t get me wrong, I still think a 10% price gap is ridiculous. Do not know where it comes from, though. Import tax or just Canon ripping of the Germans/(Europeans?)

I think the Canon subsidiaries will charge what the market can bear. With the EU pushing hard for a "single market" there's almost no difference in ordering a camera locally or from a Spanish or Greek store and have it shipped. AlanF pointed out that post-Brexit the prices for Canon gear soared in the UK, while the Sony and Nikon prices didn't.

At the end of 2019 there was some kind of instant rebate deal for the RF50L in the US, which would've meant that walking out of the office x-mas party into the Best Buy down the road would save me more than €700 compared to buying locally in the Netherlands. That included CA sales tax.

I should've done that, because I haven't been to that office since. Then again, I wouldn't have been able to afford the 100-500, which I have used daily the past week.

 

[quilatoo]

Hell the other month Canon increased the RRP of the R5 by £100!