Canon EOS R5 Mark II sensor resolution likely to stick at 45mp but with new AI features [CR2]

The day Canon rolls out a subscription plan for a camera is the day I get a Sony, Fuji, or Hasselblad.

I\'m already thinking of making the jump to Medium Format. Such a bone-headed decision on Canon\'s part would be the straw that broke the camel\'s back.

About half of my glass is Sigma and their EF-E mount converter makes Sony a viable exit strategy if I don\'t go MF.
 
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SwissFrank

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I recall the RF 135 f1.8 being tack sharp up to the extremest corner on the R5, that probably can take FF 80/100mpx without a blink. But even if some RF lenses have lot of margin over the RF, it's not 100% of them.
Thanks for hearing me out, and yes, that's more or less what I meant. I have the 135/1.8 and posted what I think to be novel and useful comparisons on this forum (search for SHOOTOUT). Even the 100-500 (at 100 and 135) has me wondering if it is sharper than the sensor. And even the lowly 50/1.8 is far better than I expected from the formula and comparisons to EF and from looking at other lens tests.

You point out some lenses have corners that are already detectably soft even at 45MP, and I'm happy to agree. Still, potentially the same lens in the same situation is giving a lot more resolution in the center (which in practice might mean the center 3/4 of the area) than the current sensors can capture.
 
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Sporgon

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Regarding the RF 50 1.8, I posted here last month an home made test with the RF 50 f1.8 VS the ancient EF 50 f1.4 VS my exotic Sigma 40 f1.4 Art, the results are absolutely brilliant considered it's price: https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/t...d-party-lens-manufacturers.43295/#post-987288
The RF 50/1.8 is certainly sharp across the frame, and when you consider the quite old optical formula with the addition of an aspherical element it’s remarkable what Canon have been able to do with it, stemming I think from coatings and ‘optimum’ lens assembly.
The downside is that bokeh can become nervous and busy.
 
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I've got the RF 50/1.8 and I don't really care that it's great "for its price". Even at $100 I spent for it, it's essentially an expensive lens cap for me. I'd rather have an $800 RF 50/1.4 that doesn't have nervous bokeh or chromatic aberration and actually have it be a lens I want to use.
The only way an RF 50 f/1.4 costs $800 USD is if it is not an L lens.
The EF 50 f/1.4 was not an L lens so I would not rule that out.
 
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I've got the RF 50/1.8 and I don't really care that it's great "for its price". Even at $100 I spent for it, it's essentially an expensive lens cap for me. I'd rather have an $800 RF 50/1.4 that doesn't have nervous bokeh or chromatic aberration and actually have it be a lens I want to use.
The Sigma 50 1.4 Art in EF mount is half of that money, and the Sigma 40 1.4 Art in EF mount (that you can also see in the test I just linked couple of messages ago) cost exactly that money, and it's as good as the RF 50 f1.2 L, so there are at least two very good solutions, one cheap and one in line with your budget, given that you can deal with an adapter which is always a pain in the ass, I'll agree on that.
 
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The RF 50/1.8 is certainly sharp across the frame, and when you consider the quite old optical formula with the addition of an aspherical element it’s remarkable what Canon have been able to do with it, stemming I think from coatings and ‘optimum’ lens assembly.
The downside is that bokeh can become nervous and busy.
Tbh I just used it for some test pictures, I actually never took "real" pictures with is; it was bought used as a cheap and light emergency std bright lens backup if my 40 f1.4 would die in the field, in lieu of the RF 35 f1.8 STM that was sold because it was a duplicate of the 40mm, and was too expensive to be an emergency placeholder in the bag. So after checking that was working properly, and that was useable wide open in the broad centre, which is it plenty, I put it in the bag and it's sitting there just in case; so I have no real first hand experience on the bokeh quality.
 
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I've got the RF 50/1.8 and I don't really care that it's great "for its price". Even at $100 I spent for it, it's essentially an expensive lens cap for me. I'd rather have an $800 RF 50/1.4 that doesn't have nervous bokeh or chromatic aberration and actually have it be a lens I want to use.
Even the 85 1.2L and the 28-70 f/2 L have chromatic aberration.
Edit: I mean RF
 
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The Sigma 50 1.4 Art in EF mount is half of that money, and the Sigma 40 1.4 Art in EF mount (that you can also see in the test I just linked couple of messages ago) cost exactly that money, and it's as good as the RF 50 f1.2 L, so there are at least two very good solutions, one cheap and one in line with your budget, given that you can deal with an adapter which is always a pain in the ass, I'll agree on that.
Sigma's 40mm looks quite good, but both of Sigma's 50mm f1.4 lens aren't much better than the rf 50 f1.8.
Is an adapter really a pain in the ass for you?
It's no worse than an extension tube I've never used a teleconverter, but it must be about the same as well. maybe attaching the lens hood is easier, but screwing in optical filters is worse by far.
 
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Tbh I just used it for some test pictures, I actually never took "real" pictures with is; it was bought used as a cheap and light emergency std bright lens backup if my 40 f1.4 would die in the field, in lieu of the RF 35 f1.8 STM that was sold because it was a duplicate of the 40mm, and was too expensive to be an emergency placeholder in the bag. So after checking that was working properly, and that was useable wide open in the broad centre, which is it plenty, I put it in the bag and it's sitting there just in case; so I have no real first hand experience on the bokeh quality.
give your rf50 f/1.8 a try, I took this photo with mine stopped down to 5.6 or maybe 7.1 and heavily cropped. I can find the raw file if you want to know 100A8878_DxO_PL7_sh-400.jpg
 
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The Sigma 50 1.4 Art in EF mount is half of that money, and the Sigma 40 1.4 Art in EF mount (that you can also see in the test I just linked couple of messages ago) cost exactly that money, and it's as good as the RF 50 f1.2 L, so there are at least two very good solutions, one cheap and one in line with your budget, given that you can deal with an adapter which is always a pain in the ass, I'll agree on that.
If I truly needed/wanted a great 50mm, I would've bought the RF 1.2 already, but the truth is I like the FL less than I did years ago. I find myself gravitating towards near-UWA and telephoto these days, like 28 and 85, even if some think UWA is "overdone" or whatever. I'd certainly love an RF85/1.4L for ~$1500. I don't need the 1.2 bad enough to put up with its price and size. And this is all layered on top of the fact that I really only use primes for street and low light travel (if the lens is small enough to travel with and not regret not using it), which are somewhat rare use cases for me, so it's kind of silly for me to even think of investing any more money into primes. But the heart wants what it wants!
 
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Regarding the RF 50 1.8, I posted here last month an home made test with the RF 50 f1.8 VS the ancient EF 50 f1.4 VS my exotic Sigma 40 f1.4 Art, the results are absolutely brilliant considered it's price: https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/t...d-party-lens-manufacturers.43295/#post-987288
Having used the EF 50 f/1.8 STM side by side with both the Canon EF 50 f/1.2L USM and the Sigma 50 f/1.4 DG HSM Art, I've always been extremely impressed by its price/performance ratio. Honestly, I have to pixel peep to see the difference between the 50L and the Nifty Fifty. The color and contrast are a bit punchier on the 50L, but that's about it. The 50 Art is in an entirely different league when it comes to sharpness and clarity.

My only complaint about Sigma Art glass is they tend to render tones a little cooler than Canon's warm tones. Nothing that you can't correct for with a custom white balance, but it does complicate your workflow if you're shooting with both Canon and Sigma glass and need to match tones across a series.
 
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If I truly needed/wanted a great 50mm, I would've bought the RF 1.2 already, but the truth is I like the FL less than I did years ago. I find myself gravitating towards near-UWA and telephoto these days, like 28 and 85, even if some think UWA is "overdone" or whatever. I'd certainly love an RF85/1.4L for ~$1500. I don't need the 1.2 bad enough to put up with its price and size. And this is all layered on top of the fact that I really only use primes for street and low light travel (if the lens is small enough to travel with and not regret not using it), which are somewhat rare use cases for me, so it's kind of silly for me to even think of investing any more money into primes. But the heart wants what it wants!
I've been using my Sigma 85 f/1.4 Art on my EOS R with the EF-RF adapter for 3 years now and it has performed very well. Only complaint is that it seems to hunt for focus slightly more often than it does on my 5D mk IV.
 
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Having used the EF 50 f/1.8 STM side by side with both the Canon EF 50 f/1.2L USM and the Sigma 50 f/1.4 DG HSM Art, I've always been extremely impressed by its price/performance ratio. Honestly, I have to pixel peep to see the difference between the 50L and the Nifty Fifty. The color and contrast are a bit punchier on the 50L, but that's about it. The 50 Art is in an entirely different league when it comes to sharpness and clarity.

My only complaint about Sigma Art glass is they tend to render tones a little cooler than Canon's warm tones. Nothing that you can't correct for with a custom white balance, but it does complicate your workflow if you're shooting with both Canon and Sigma glass and need to match tones across a series.
I've started making a new folder if I know there's a change with a different lens like this that I'll want to do something different with. It's not a perfect solution, but maybe it can help you.
 
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Having used the EF 50 f/1.8 STM side by side with both the Canon EF 50 f/1.2L USM and the Sigma 50 f/1.4 DG HSM Art, I've always been extremely impressed by its price/performance ratio. Honestly, I have to pixel peep to see the difference between the 50L and the Nifty Fifty. The color and contrast are a bit punchier on the 50L, but that's about it. The 50 Art is in an entirely different league when it comes to sharpness and clarity.

My only complaint about Sigma Art glass is they tend to render tones a little cooler than Canon's warm tones. Nothing that you can't correct for with a custom white balance, but it does complicate your workflow if you're shooting with both Canon and Sigma glass and need to match tones across a series.
If you do colour critical work it may very well be; personally, doing portraits and ceremonies, I never experienced that many changes in tones rendition, even if I have a pretty different mix of stuff, as I currently have two RF primes, three EF zooms and two EF Sigma Art primes.

I had much more problems dealing with differences in bodies, even across the same brand; last year I made a wedding where my second shooter was using a 6DII (I was on R6 and R10), and tones between my two R's were consistent, while her pictures with the 6DII were totally different, especially in the church even if we used the same fixed WB. Problems were probably complicated even more by the lighting of the church (it was a windowless small chapel, so it was entirely illuminated artificially), that was pretty sub par, and had ENORMOUS problems with colour flickering.
I stumbled across light intensity flickering before, but I never experienced such flickering in colours; me and my partner we would take 6/7 pictures in a row, at the same moments from the same subject, and we would end with each picture with a slight different colour! Matching them in post was a nightmare, not only the °K were off, but also the tint. Usually I scout churches and wedding locations beforehand, but unfortunately this time the wedding was 600km from home, so I couldn't see the place and the lighting before the actual wedding day.
 
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SwissFrank

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I've got the RF 50/1.8 and I don't really care that it's great "for its price". Even at $100 I spent for it, it's essentially an expensive lens cap for me. I'd rather have an $800 RF 50/1.4 that doesn't have nervous bokeh or chromatic aberration and actually have it be a lens I want to use.
I think there's basically two schools of lens design for 50's:

  • the double Gaussian ones, basically a symmetric design of 3-4 lenses facing 3-4 of similar but reversed shapes. It's been around a century, and makes good not great images, can be very compact and relatively cheap. All the EF 50mm's were in this family including the initial 1.0 and 1.8, the later 1.4, the consumer-grade 1.8 and final 1.2.
  • new computer-aided designs whose lens diagram is unrecognizable, and which is absolutely huge but super-sharp and well-corrected. The Zeiss Otus 55/1.4 and RF 50/1.2 are in this family. I think Sigma and Nikon or Sony also have such lenses?
Canon basically needs a good f/1.4 from both schools, I thought for a long time.

It seems like if you're going for the modern, huge design, then there's not a huge weight or size or cost savings going for 1.4 instead of 1.2 so you might as well go for 1.2. Is that the feeling you get? Or are there modern 1.4 with as good image quality as the RF50/1.2 but far smaller size weight and price?

Then if you're content with the older design, you could have a 1.8, 1.4, 1.2, or even 1.0, with steadily increasing size weight and cost, so here, smaller does have a definite benefit.

OK, so a point I've made a few times and doesn't seem to convince many is that on RF, 1.8 is the new 1.4. (I actually have argued the f/4 trinity, weith 100-500, are the new f/2.8, but the same argument applies here.) In the film era, even shooting the fastest films, it was nearly impossible to get perfectly in focus even on relatively steady subjects, unless they were centered or you took the time to use the dedicated focus sensor. I would center, focus, reframe, and trip the shutter, but because the focal plane wasn't a sphere, the subject wouldn't be in focus after recomposing. Then you had grain. Because of these you couldn't use big image sizes, often 4x6" or something. And because of that, you needed a huge aperture to create enough bokeh so that even at small image size there was a clear difference between subject and background. Meanwhile, grain got crazy with higher ISO. Even ISO800 was unpublishable in many cases. So again you wanted big aperture. Finally, without IS, you had to keep the shutter fast, and AGAIN, big aperture was needed.

In contrast, now, AF absolutely nails the subject eyelashes every time even for moving subjects. The image is virtually noise-free. IS ensures your subject is sharp even for long exposures. So with the subject so sharp, you can now enlarge to 10x15" even with ISO5000. That in turn means the bokeh from a modest f/1.8 now suffices to show the pop from your noise-free, perfectly-focused subject with no hand shake blur, from its background. (And in fact f/1.2 bokeh is so in your face at such image sizes that bokeh becomes the story, not the subject.) And you don't need the big aperture to keep ISO down or shutter speeds short.

SO.................

My logic or facts may be wrong so I invite corrections, but, it seems to me, that we basically DO ALREADY have "the two 50mm f/1.4's" I mention. But the new-school design was bumped up to f/1.2 because there was little extra size weight or cost penalty given that an new-school f/1.4 would be nearly as massive. And the 50/1.8 is again doing the job on an R5 that I needed the 50/1.4 to do on my EOS-1N, 1V, and 3. And 1Ds and 1DsII and 1DsIII.

I've always shot a huge amount of 50/1.4 and for years I've been waiting for the RF 50/1.4, but it's possible I've already bought them. (I sold the 1.2 though--didn't care for the football-shaped highlights in the corners, and just never "needed" 1.2 even at night.)
 
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koenkooi

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I think there's basically two schools of lens design for 50's:

  • the double Gaussian ones, basically a symmetric design of 3-4 lenses facing 3-4 of similar but reversed shapes. It's been around a century, and makes good not great images, can be very compact and relatively cheap. All the EF 50mm's were in this family including the initial 1.0 and 1.8, the later 1.4, the consumer-grade 1.8 and final 1.2.
  • new computer-aided designs whose lens diagram is unrecognizable, and which is absolutely huge but super-sharp and well-corrected. The Zeiss Otus 55/1.4 and RF 50/1.2 are in this family. I think Sigma and Nikon or Sony also have such lenses?
Canon basically needs a good f/1.4 from both schools, I thought for a long time.

It seems like if you're going for the modern, huge design, then there's not a huge weight or size or cost savings going for 1.4 instead of 1.2 so you might as well go for 1.2. Is that the feeling you get? Or are there modern 1.4 with as good image quality as the RF50/1.2 but far smaller size weight and price? [...]
The Sigma 50mm f/1.2 that was introduced earlier this week is about the same size/weight/price as the Sony 50mm f/1.4. In the hypothetical situation where Sigma produces that for RF, would the $1400-ish price tag satisfy the people clamouring for a 50 f/1.4?
 
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SwissFrank

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The Sigma 50mm f/1.2 that was introduced earlier this week is about the same size/weight/price as the Sony 50mm f/1.4. In the hypothetical situation where Sigma produces that for RF, would the $1400-ish price tag satisfy the people clamouring for a 50 f/1.4?
Thanks for hearing me out on this subject.

I think the people clamouring for 50/1.4 are ACTUALLY asking for one of the two lenses we ALREADY have. Either they want something like the EF50/1.4, a double Gaussian design, cheap, compact, good not great IQ, and so basically what the RF50/1.8 is, once you factor in the lower need for raw F-stop these days. People are hung up on the 1.8 vs. 1.4 but I think that is a mistake (and one I made for 3-4 years before finding peace!). In other words, the RF50/1.8 **IS** the double-Gaussian RF50/1.4 you've been waiting for.

Or they want something like the Otus 55/1.4, which is basically the size and weight and cost of the Canon RF50/1.2 which has a nominal and hardly noticeable extra 1/3 stop. In which case I'd say the RF50/1.2 IS the new-school computer-designed 50/1.4 you think you want. People are hung up thinking they're paying extra for the 1.2 vs. 1.4 but again I think that is a mistake. You get the extra 1/3 f-stop with nearly no weight, size, or cost penalty. In other words, the RF50/1.2 **IS** the new-school computer-designed RF50/1.4 you've been waiting for.

I think the Sig 50/1.2 has an attractive price point, but not as attractive as a hypothetical Canon 50/1.4 double Gaussian would be, even given that RF prices are like double EF's of the same spec. And it has the size and weight of the RF50/1.2 so won't do anything for people who by "50/1.4" mean something small and light and portable.
 
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