Canon EOS R5 Mark II sensor resolution likely to stick at 45mp but with new AI features [CR2]

[3kramd5]

You like the idea of paying $4k for a camera, then having to pay $100/month to get 'support'? Bug fix - sorry you have to sign up for the monthly to get that. Limited to 100clicks a month with no subscription. Can't save to memory card without subscription. JPG only without subscription. RAW files can only be converted using DPP, and it will only do it if your subscription is active. "F" that....

Since it seems we are reacting to make believe unrealistic interpretations of a Canon subscription model:

You don’t like the idea of a $4,000 camera, always at the current hardware version, that you can subscribe to use for $40/month for as long as you want to?

Hell yah I’m in.

 

[AlanF]

Since it seems we are reacting to make believe unrealistic interpretations of a Canon subscription model:

You don’t like the idea of a $4,000 camera, always at the current hardware version, that you can subscribe to use for $40/month for as long as you want to?

Hell yah I’m in.

What does “current hardware version” mean? The R5iii, the R5iv etc when they are released?

 

[neuroanatomist]

You like the idea of paying $4k for a camera, then having to pay $100/month to get 'support'? Bug fix - sorry you have to sign up for the monthly to get that. Limited to 100clicks a month with no subscription. Can't save to memory card without subscription. JPG only without subscription. RAW files can only be converted using DPP, and it will only do it if your subscription is active. "F" that....

Do you honestly believe your tizzy has any basis in proximate reality?

 

[3kramd5]

What does “current hardware version” mean? The R5iii, the R5iv etc when they are released?

Yes, in my fantastical anti-hypothetical, you subscribe to the R5 series, and if it rolls from iii to iv, you ship back the iii and they ship you the iv.

I make the post because as far as I can see, there are many emotional responses based on fatalistic unrealistic assumptions about what a subscription would mean (stuff like having to make recurring payments after buying a camera to save to a memory card, or more broadly having to make recurring payments after buying a camera to use the thing at all), but I've seen no posts optimistic unrealistic assumptions of what it may mean.

The realistic view is that Canon isn't going to sell an expensive piece of hardware and cordon off its common basic functions behind a paywall. Anything subscription is likely to be niche or associated with recurring costs on their side (e.g., connectivity or cloud storage/services).

 

[amorse]

I mean, even the concept of a Canon subscription plan is just a rumour at this point, let alone a problematic structure. With that said, examples like what’s rumoured to be proposed by HP for printer services just wouldn’t sit right with me. I guess examples like that are why I (and others) may jump to a worst case fear here.

 

[3kramd5]

I mean, even the concept of a Canon subscription plan is just a rumour at this point, let alone a problematic structure. With that said, examples like what’s rumoured to be proposed by HP for printer services just wouldn’t sit right with me. I guess examples like that are why I (and others) may jump to a worst case fear here.

That's just them saying the quiet part out loud. The printer model has long been "buy some cheap hardware that runs out of expensive ink routinely."

 

[alanphotography]

It puts the power into nonviolent criminal hackers instead.
They can lock and unlock your gear for ransom.

True especially if the camera requires the internet connection, but as someone commented this can be better done without internet connection. The same logic applies to smartphone, and those are connected all the time, a larger market and it is easier to get the programing details than from a camera ship.

In any case, I would rather risk hackers than violent physical assault, but I see your point and agree online lock is a bad idea. In camera password/lock should be enough.

 

[alanphotography]

Ok, I’m 14 going on 64 and that space placement error made me giggle.

Glad I made you smile !

 

[EOS 4 Life]

That's just them saying the quiet part out loud. The printer model has long been "buy some cheap hardware that runs out of expensive ink routinely."

It is not just that the ink runs out if you do use it.
It also dries out if you do not use it.

 

[SwissFrank]

The RF lenses are really sharp enough for substantially more than 45MP.

I'm sure not everyone will buy it but some surely would, including me, if either the MkII or an R5s were an industry-leading (among MILFFs) sensor resolution.

There's also other sensor improvements: noise, dynamic range, and a couple special things like global shutter, electronic ND, a double-ISO-range trick they patented 4-5 years ago, and so on.

If point of focus could follow photographer's eye that's be a game changer. The EOS-3 always worked great for me in the 90s and I'd take even that kind of resolution of gaze over having to use the joystick. (For instance, maybe I chose to focus on face or on eye, but there are multiple subjects and I'm looks mid-left. So try to get the mid-left face.)

For shooting one's kid in sport, it'd be interesting if you could train the AI on your own kid, then have the camera follow that trained face in a larger crowd running across a soccer field or what have you.

 

[Walrus]

The RF lenses are really sharp enough for substantially more than 45MP.

The 28-70 f2 struggles @70mm wide open already on the R5, and the corners (and again 70mm) on the R7 ("substantially more" then 45mpx in FF terms, considered the sensor density) are terrible. Also centre at 28mm and 45mm starts to be sub-par wide open on the R7, considered the price of the lens.

That's just an example; I recall the RF 135 f1.8 being tack sharp up to the extremest corner on the R5, that probably can take FF 80/100mpx without a blink. But even if some RF lenses have lot of margin over the RF, it's not 100% of them.
I personally would be careful, and see some real life test, before updating my camera with a much higher res then the R5, before finding myself with 1 or 2 of my 4/5/6 lenses being sub par to such resolution, of course unless i just shot f8 in the studio and so even many old EF lenses can take huge res sensors with narrow apertures.

 

[xrazor2005]

Maybe he's doing something like ceremonies, weddings, events, etc, and needs cameras with common batteries, lenses, flash triggers, etc.

Example, I want the Tamron 35-150 SO BAD; I could hold onto my R6, and ditch my backup body (Eos R) to buy a A7III to use the Tamron with, while I'll use my bright primes (40 Art and 105 Art) alternatively on the R6.
I buy the A7III with the R money (they cost the same used), but to buy the 35-150, I need to sell the 24-70 and 70-200. Switch must be zero charge.

Now, if the R6 dies in the field, I can use all the lenses (included the Sigma DSLR primes via MC-11 adapter) on the Sony; but if the Sony dies? Then I find myself with two beautiful primes on the R6, but certainly not that flexible, and the 35-150 zoom it's useless (and I already sold my two Canon zooms to buy the Tamron), and nothing wider then 40mm, so not an ideal situation (even if you certainly can do a wedding just with a 40 and a 105 if needed).

So, it's not so uncommon to think "well, the moment I buy a Sony alternative, then I'll just buy two of them and ditch both R and R6 altogether"; I thought that already, but haven't pulled the trigger, yet. But maybe he has different needs, and urges, then me.

Yes, many people have different brands to do different things; but if you need to do just one thing, or different things but with need of backup, then you (usually) just want one single brand, not two or three.

DanFaz and Walrus,
Thanks for the input and your points of view.
I have been enjoying photography since I was a kid. It has always been more of an avocation.
I started out with 35mm film cameras Fujica ST605, Nikon FM, FM2, N8008 and switched to digital when the Canon Digital Rebel came out. Since then I had several versions of the Rebel, 7D, Full Frame 6D then the 5DS and I purchased a 5DSR refurb from Canon. I've been shooting autos at different events/landscapes for a while now and I just love the resolution and crop factor of a high MP camera. My glass is L series except for the nifty 50. So, I have been loyal to Canon for a good 20 years. For me, it's been about the brand that has always been dedicated to the photographer and has developed its own technology ie. Sensors.


To Walrus's point: It is also about economics and staying within the system. If I commit to a brand, I would be inclined to buy into the system. So if you change and invest in new glass you can be 8-15k into it today. If I stay with Canon, I can still use my EF L glass and over time purchase RF additions and/or replacements. If I purchase any additional Canon cameras I can always add them to my system.

To DanFaz point: On the flip side. I was looking for a smaller walkaround camera for street type of photography that has high MP like the Sony A7CR.
One of the Fuji's would be better for this but I like Full Frame. I could Just use the Sony for this activity with one lens. although, If I make this purchase, any idea of a Canon upgrade will be put off for a while.

Thanks !!

 

[danfaz]

DanFaz and Walrus,
Thanks for the input and your points of view.
I have been enjoying photography since I was a kid. It has always been more of an avocation.
I started out with 35mm film cameras Fujica ST605, Nikon FM, FM2, N8008 and switched to digital when the Canon Digital Rebel came out. Since then I had several versions of the Rebel, 7D, Full Frame 6D then the 5DS and I purchased a 5DSR refurb from Canon. I've been shooting autos at different events/landscapes for a while now and I just love the resolution and crop factor of a high MP camera. My glass is L series except for the nifty 50. So, I have been loyal to Canon for a good 20 years. For me, it's been about the brand that has always been dedicated to the photographer and has developed its own technology ie. Sensors.


To Walrus's point: It is also about economics and staying within the system. If I commit to a brand, I would be inclined to buy into the system. So if you change and invest in new glass you can be 8-15k into it today. If I stay with Canon, I can still use my EF L glass and over time purchase RF additions and/or replacements. If I purchase any additional Canon cameras I can always add them to my system.

To DanFaz point: On the flip side. I was looking for a smaller walkaround camera for street type of photography that has high MP like the Sony A7CR.
One of the Fuji's would be better for this but I like Full Frame. I could Just use the Sony for this activity with one lens. although, If I make this purchase, any idea of a Canon upgrade will be put off for a while.

Thanks !!

Thanks @xrazor2005 ! Good conversation.

 

[josephandrews222]

Thanks @xrazor2005 ! Good conversation.

I agree. Good conversation.

And for those who think that some of the (far-out?!) subscription models will never see the light of day...I give you this:

HP wants you to pay up to $36/month to rent a printer that it monitors

"Never own a printer again."

arstechnica.com

...and I have not read every comment in this thread, so maybe I missed it...but surely I can't be the only photographer concerned about havingmy workhorse camera being, in essence, part of the Internet of Things...and always 'connected'. I'm not concerned about Big Brother etc...I just want my stuff to work. I guess I'm expressing the following: I kind of like it that my camera is 'a dumb appliance', and not 'a connected CPU with a sensor'.

 

[David_B]

Since it seems we are reacting to make believe unrealistic interpretations of a Canon subscription model:

You don’t like the idea of a $4,000 camera, always at the current hardware version, that you can subscribe to use for $40/month for as long as you want to?

There are car ownership models based on this but the car ownership model is called leasing:

How to Lease a Car | Money

Read on for our review and learn how to lease a car.

money.com

 

[riker]

"Absolutely devastated" by a camera not meeting your wishes?

Shouldn't I? Can't I? Please tell me how you would like me to feel and how to phrase my feelings.

 

[riker]

CR2: This is a rumour that comes from a known source with a track record of giving correct information most of the time, but not always. The information in these rumours do not have a broad consensus from known sources.

If that's all it takes to make you furious and absolutely devastated, how do you function in day-to-day life?

Well, I'd say I have a privileged life but I'm still furious most of the time.
It's interesting though how people tend to react on my feelings and not the opinion. You could have said you appreciate AI and can't wait to see what it will do. Or maybe agree with me on that it's most probably just BS, from a manufacturer which is 15y behind any mobile brand in terms of AI or "AI" or connectivity or even just the ability take panoramic shots.

 

[riker]

This isn't an airport... you don't need to announce your departure

Nice. Did you come up with that alone, or the other genius bringing up Gaza helped?

 

[neuroanatomist]

Well, I'd say I have a privileged life but I'm still furious most of the time.
It's interesting though how people tend to react on my feelings and not the opinion. You could have said you appreciate AI and can't wait to see what it will do. Or maybe agree with me on that it's most probably just BS, from a manufacturer which is 15y behind any mobile brand in terms of AI or "AI" or connectivity or even just the ability take panoramic shots.

Apparently you need a reminder of what you said:

I'm absolutely devastated.
- No higher resolution
- AI bullshitting
- Subscription rip-off

Personally, I was reacting to your existential angst over the rumored lack of a resolution increase and the vague suggestion of something subscription-based but with zero details even in the rumor. I’m open to AI incorporation, though I doubt Canon will do that well on the image processing side and likely not in-camera anyway.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Since it seems we are reacting to make believe unrealistic interpretations of a Canon subscription model:

You don’t like the idea of a $4,000 camera, always at the current hardware version, that you can subscribe to use for $40/month for as long as you want to?

Hell yah I’m in.

From a corporate production / engineering methodology, this has littel to do with us as end users. There's a massive amount of end user suspicion conecerning subscription based purchasing / licensing models. However, Canon needs to incorporate a more flexible product delivery mechanism and costings if they are to deliver more camera updates and prolong their product life cycle.

In the post modern managment world of "waterfall" delivery, a company would research, design, build and manufacture. One large burst of activity for each stage, resulting in a final shipped product. If something failed or was wrong, it would be treated as a warrenty issue and invoke an activity loop to fix to resolve. If the bug wasn't fixable, then the resolution would be to wait for the next release (ie another version of the camera). We are all used to seeing this methodology with our Canon products.

However, this is quite an old fashioned and inefficient management principle and newer methodologies such as "Agile" allow large corporations more flexibility to deliver large product life cycles quicker and achieve faster minor refresh cycles. The susbscription model supports "Agile" frameworks much better and puts a business economy framework around a regular update cycle.

It is quite clear that many of us are a bit disspointed by the R5's lack of continual developement. I would have liked to have seen a firmware release that brought the R6ii's AF improvements to the R5. It would mitigate some of the desire for a R5mkII. If we want to see more regular camera updates then Canon will need to change their entire business model to provide this and it's not something that we should be scared of. Adobe, Microsoft and Autodesk have been running this model for some time and it's a very successful and "Agile" model.

I chose and R6ii over the R5 because the AF was slightly newer and more mature. I would have liked the 45mp sensor and the top LCD unit. But I felt that the R5 was looking a bit old compared to the R6ii. The R5 was a land mark camera and I suspect that the R5ii will be a relatively minor upgrade because Canon got so much right with the R5.