Canon EOS R6 Mark II already in prototype testing [CR1]

Kharan

R6, RP, bunch of lenses
Nov 9, 2018
61
59
A stacked sensor in the R6 doesn't make sense so soon. Stacked sensors are incredibly expensive and I am not expecting them in anything but the flagships for another couple of generations at least. Now if it is a new model with a stacked crop sensor, that I could see. As it stands a stacked full frame sensor is at least 10x more expensive.
Source? That doesn't seem to be the case at all, at least looking at the current offerings. The X-H2 is rumored to launch at $2,000, only a $500 retail difference (indicating probably a cost differential of $100 or so, unless Fujifilm want to eat their margins on their flagship APS camera, which seems quite unlikely). The OM-1 launched at $2,100, barely a $300 premium over the E-M1.3 (and that's not even accounting for inflation). Even if we assume that a 35mm imager is 10 times more expensive, that would indicate a cost differential of $1,000, and that number is probably waaay overblown, because you certainly don't need 10x as much DRAM to put on the chip, for starters. And sales volumes are quite small for all the involved models, so, economies of scale are out of the question as a factor.

No, Canon, Nikon and Sony can charge as much as they like for their top-end cameras because they market will bear those prices. The actual cost of the devices weighs very little into that, and the R&D costs can be spread out by employing the tech in more bodies.
 
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Kharan

R6, RP, bunch of lenses
Nov 9, 2018
61
59
It'd make sense for the EOS R successor to be some sort of upgraded R6, or rather, a low-res R5. They could price it at $3,100 and bill it as the counterpart to the R5, with the benefits of a stacked sensor. Keep the body the same, and maybe remove the mechanical shutter for maximum cost-cutting.
 
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In 2013 I got the 6D because it was the smallest, lightest full frame camera. I immediately started adapting lenses from multiple older mounts to it. In 2019 I got the RP because it was the smallest, lightest full frame camera. I continued using adapted lenses, including EF lenses. Point is, I waited for seven years as every other brand got on board the IBIS train. And the truth is, I'm still waiting. Because the cheapest full frame camera with IBIS so far is the R6. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan. Of all the RF cameras so far, I think it has the best design. But it's $2500. That's $900 more than I paid for the 6D, and $1500 more than I paid for the RP. It is, quite simply, outside my budget. And any time I hear talk of not replacing the R, or replacing it but without IBIS, I see red. I don't expect an RP replacement with IBIS for a thousand dollars, that's unrealistic. But can I please, at long last, get my full frame IBIS for under $2000? Is that really too much to ask? To me, the biggest point of adapting old lenses is to help you stay within your budget. Please, Canon. I promise I'll still buy your budget RF lenses, they're all great. But it's time to finally let us full frame shooters on a budget stabilize all our old lenses that we love.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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How are 20 a joke? I know quite a lot of photographers who purchased R6(over R5 and R7 and upgraded from 7D/7D II) for wildlife shooting and events who are happy with their camera and swear by it.
@bergstrom wants a 50 MP R-series camera with 1-series features for that sells for not more than $1000. And a unicorn to take pictures of with it.
 
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CanonGrunt

C70
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Jan 28, 2012
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Sony has quit the sub $1k FF market entirely when they killed A7 II, and RP is just hanging there. They probably don't think the potential sales worth the effort and cost to develop another entry level FF and I assume Nikon has similar view too.
Apparently all eyes are on vlog/video shooters and that's where the manufacturers would go
Yeah, i definitely see a world where Canon just lets the R and RP die off. Time will tell, but most people I know that are looking at the R or RP right now keep telling me they think they’ll wait for the R7 to be in stock, and they really don’t understand sensor size differences at all. Most people I know that really want full frame are getting used DSLRs, or springing for an R6. So it makes sense. My buddy just picked up a gently used 1D X MK II for $900. So it often doesn’t make a ton of sense for the R and RP market now that canon has other offerings. When they came out those were the canon mirrorless choices. Now, minus the R1 & a rebel, we pretty much have the traditional line up back again.
 
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I really don’t think there will be an “Rii” that’s what the R5 already is.

I do however think a more pro grade aps-c model will be made. I’m loving my R7, the speed, AF, image quality is all brilliant but… THERE WAS A REASON CANON MADE THE R7 WITHOUT BATTERY GRIB COMPATIBILITY!! I mean, why on earth would Canon really not make a little grip for their most advanced crop sensor camera..? Because that’s not the one they want the more serious photographers buying.
I think it was the perfect opportunity for market segmentation, if you really need the battery grip then Canon wants you to buy the R5 instead of the R7.
 
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In 2013 I got the 6D because it was the smallest, lightest full frame camera. I immediately started adapting lenses from multiple older mounts to it. In 2019 I got the RP because it was the smallest, lightest full frame camera. I continued using adapted lenses, including EF lenses. Point is, I waited for seven years as every other brand got on board the IBIS train. And the truth is, I'm still waiting. Because the cheapest full frame camera with IBIS so far is the R6. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan. Of all the RF cameras so far, I think it has the best design. But it's $2500. That's $900 more than I paid for the 6D, and $1500 more than I paid for the RP. It is, quite simply, outside my budget. And any time I hear talk of not replacing the R, or replacing it but without IBIS, I see red. I don't expect an RP replacement with IBIS for a thousand dollars, that's unrealistic. But can I please, at long last, get my full frame IBIS for under $2000? Is that really too much to ask? To me, the biggest point of adapting old lenses is to help you stay within your budget. Please, Canon. I promise I'll still buy your budget RF lenses, they're all great. But it's time to finally let us full frame shooters on a budget stabilize all our old lenses that we love.
The way I stabilize my Canon 200mm f/2.8L in low light is I shoot AI Servo and Hi speed continuous, I'll get at least a few shots that's not motion blurred. For my Canon 50mm f/1.8 II I just use a fast shutter speed.
 
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Blue Zurich

Traditional Grip
Jan 22, 2022
243
364
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How are 20 a joke? I know quite a lot of photographers who purchased R6(over R5 and R7 and upgraded from 7D/7D II) for wildlife shooting and events who are happy with their camera and swear by it.
This person must have missed how Canons flagships had certain 'low' pixel counts and no one had problems creating world class images with them.
 
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Jan 27, 2020
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I really don’t think there will be an “Rii” that’s what the R5 already is.

I do however think a more pro grade aps-c model will be made. I’m loving my R7, the speed, AF, image quality is all brilliant but… THERE WAS A REASON CANON MADE THE R7 WITHOUT BATTERY GRIB COMPATIBILITY!! I mean, why on earth would Canon really not make a little grip for their most advanced crop sensor camera..? Because that’s not the one they want the more serious photographers buying.
They want more serious photographers to buy the R5 and the R3, and ultimately the R1. In fact, they probably already have the data that many 7D series users have already bought the R5 or the R3. So, I doubt very much that there will be a more pro-grade crop camera. Just a guess, of course.
 
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When a new version of a camera comes out, I always fear that it will be spoiled by a higher resolution. I a glad that Canon still offers a full frame camera with "only" 21 megapixels. Those who want more megapixels, could still buy an R5, although the R5 is quite overpriced in my opinion.

What I would wish about the R6II is that it will basically become a lower resolution version of the R5 without all that additional crippleling that Canon introduced in the R6. For example it should no longer have a smaller screen than the R5 or a lower resolution EVF. It should also come with 5 GHz WIFI like the R5 and perhabs even with WIFI 6E. And it should also have a top display instead of a dial and a CFexpress card slot. Of course if both slots would be CFexpress, that would even be better.

It should finally come with an optional battery grip that actually aligns with the camera. The current R5/R6 battery grip really does not look like a part of the camera. I can't understand that design decision. For more than $300 I would expect a perfectly fitting battery grip.
 
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When a new version of a camera comes out, I always fear that it will be spoiled by a higher resolution. I a glad that Canon still offers a full frame camera with "only" 21 megapixels. Those who want more megapixels, could still buy an R5, although the R5 is quite overpriced in my opinion.
I agree with you. More MP needs more storage space, more powerful computers etc… I’m happy with the 30 MP of the R, it’s a real sweet spot. More MPs would make me have to upgrade my MacBook and/ or iPad.

What I would wish about the R6II is that it will basically become a lower resolution version of the R5 without all that additional crippleling that Canon introduced in the R6. For example it should no longer have a smaller screen than the R5 or a lower resolution EVF. It should also come with 5 GHz WIFI like the R5 and perhabs even with WIFI 6E. And it should also have a top display instead of a dial and a CFexpress card slot. Of course if both slots would be CFexpress, that would even be better.
Here, I don’t agree. A higher resolution EVF will cost more, therefore the camera would be more expensive. CFExpress also cost more… as well as 5ghz Wifi. What would the point in having a 4.000 € R6 with 20mp and 45mp R5 for 4.500 €???

It should finally come with an optional battery grip that actually aligns with the camera. The current R5/R6 battery grip really does not look like a part of the camera. I can't understand that design decision. For more than $300 I would expect a perfectly fitting battery grip.
I agree with you. I saw the BG in a store attached an R6/ R5 and it did look kind of weird to me. I didn’t test it, but I can imagine the complaints are for real.
 
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Interestingly, to me it feels like most CR readers would like to upgrade the R6 so it’s very close to the R5. Funnily, that would widen the gap between the 1.000 $ RP and the pro models. Canon on the other hand is trying to close the gap between 1.000 $ and 2.500 $ R6…

If the R6 gets an update, it’ll be a modest one to push upward just a little bit. That way canon makes room for an Allrounder type camera like the R (of course, it’s successor…whatever the name will be). A 2.000 $ R successor and a 2.500-2.800 $ R6mkii would fit in.

At the moment, it almost looks like there is a gap from 0 $ to 2.500 $ because the R and the RP are outdated in terms of focus capabilities and e-shutter (maybe a few other things).
 
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koenkooi

CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
3,573
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[..] It should also come with 5 GHz WIFI like the R5 and perhaps even with WIFI 6E. [..]
It took like 10 years to get 5GHz in a Canon body, so I'm not holding my breath for wifi 6E. Wifi 6 might be an option, since it's largely a software thing (e.g. WPA3 support).

I'd very much like Canon to make the wifi that is present more useful. The past few weeks I've been setting a camera trap at night to try catching a hedgehog, using the remote liveview for framing and focus area selection. The camera is 3 meters from an accesspoint, but you can only connect to it when you initiate the connection from the camera. If you use the app on your phone, it will connect over bluetooth and have the camera act as accesspoint for remote live view. The builtin AP function in the camera is flaky and has a very tiny range.

It would be nice if the app could make it connect to an existing network and it would be even better if the camera could keep wifi active in a low power mode so that you can (re)connect at will. A working auto-transfer to a local computer running EOS utility, an FTP server or even a cloud service would be even better. The current firmware says it can do that, but I haven't seen it actually upload anything.

No hedgehogs have tripped the trap yet, but lots of toads, mice and cats :)


IMG_2208.jpeg
20220829 2244 28 Nederland Amersfoort - Canon EOS R5 - RF85mm F2 MACRO IS STM at 85 mm  -_.jpeg
 
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koenkooi

CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
3,573
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Interestingly, to me it feels like most CR readers would like to upgrade the R6 so it’s very close to the R5. Funnily, that would widen the gap between the 1.000 $ RP and the pro models. Canon on the other hand is trying to close the gap between 1.000 $ and 2.500 $ R6…

If the R6 gets an update, it’ll be a modest one to push upward just a little bit. That way canon makes room for an Allrounder type camera like the R (of course, it’s successor…whatever the name will be). A 2.000 $ R successor and a 2.500-2.800 $ R6mkii would fit in.

At the moment, it almost looks like there is a gap from 0 $ to 2.500 $ because the R and the RP are outdated in terms of focus capabilities and e-shutter (maybe a few other things).
I sold my RP to get the R5, but I really miss having a smaller camera that can share lenses with the bigger one. I loved the combo of the 7D and original M. My M6II is having issues and can't use RF lenses, so I keep looking at used RP bodies for sale :) I really hope the rumoured "vlog style" body will fit my use case (IBIS!) and be in the RP price range.

A usable e-shutter has become a must-have for me, I'm looking forward to the options available for the next summer trip :)
 
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Source? That doesn't seem to be the case at all, at least looking at the current offerings. The X-H2 is rumored to launch at $2,000, only a $500 retail difference (indicating probably a cost differential of $100 or so, unless Fujifilm want to eat their margins on their flagship APS camera, which seems quite unlikely). The OM-1 launched at $2,100, barely a $300 premium over the E-M1.3 (and that's not even accounting for inflation). Even if we assume that a 35mm imager is 10 times more expensive, that would indicate a cost differential of $1,000, and that number is probably waaay overblown, because you certainly don't need 10x as much DRAM to put on the chip, for starters. And sales volumes are quite small for all the involved models, so, economies of scale are out of the question as a factor.

No, Canon, Nikon and Sony can charge as much as they like for their top-end cameras because they market will bear those prices. The actual cost of the devices weighs very little into that, and the R&D costs can be spread out by employing the tech in more bodies.

You know you the X-H2 is a crop sensor camera? Stacked crop sensors are significantly cheeper as you actually can get more than two viable sensors per wafer. These aren't even remotely comparable things. The cheapest possible stacked sensor camera just now is the Nikon Z9 followed by the Canon R3. This rumour is suggesting Canon can save significant amounts of money by putting the entire guts of the R3 into a R6 body.

I also suggest you look at list prices for sensors, Sony will share them with you confidentially if you are in the correct business.
 
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Aug 7, 2018
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Here, I don’t agree. A higher resolution EVF will cost more, therefore the camera would be more expensive. CFExpress also cost more… as well as 5ghz Wifi. What would the point in having a 4.000 € R6 with 20mp and 45mp R5 for 4.500 €???
Actually I would even buy a low megapixel version, if the price was the same. I spent €5,996 on a 1D X (the very old one), whoch only has 18 megapixels. 24 megapixels would still be okay to me, if the noise performance has improved a lot. As Canon always had a low resolution in their flagship cameras, I wonder why now lower resolution is a feature that only cheaper cameras get. At the moment the R3 has the lowest noise of all full frame cameras ever produced. Of course that is partly because of the BSI stacked sensor, but also because of the low resolution.

Not sure if a higher resolution EVF really costs more. Are there certain costs per million pixels or so? I thought they are somehow "printed" and a higher resolution EVF just has to be a more detailed print.
 
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