Canon Looking Into a New Mount System

[rrcphoto]

I look at the size and weight of the Sony FE 70-200 f/4 OSS lens designed for their mirrorless A7 family, and I shudder. What's the point of going mirrorless if the telephoto lenses don't shrink in size and weight?

It's for the shorter lenses. Look at Leica lenses sometime. Their normals and wides are positively tiny, compared to Canon's. Look at Canon's 24mm f/1.4, which is a giant compared to the 50mm f/1.4. Doesn't that seem backward? That's because it. But it's necessary, due to the mirror.

There's the crux for the majority of the buying public - they dont' care for primes. get a few kit lenses and they are good.

 

[EchoLocation]

It seems like a lot of the CR regulars are choosing to ignore this thread.
Only 3 pages about a possible new mount?@!
This is crazy news. Didn't Canon just create the M mount? Why would we need a m43 focused mount when they just made the EOS-M system?
Is this just purposeful misinformation? The only reason I could see the need for any new mount is if the M mount can absolutely not take FF and they need to want to make smaller lenses and bodies which accommodate FF(or hopefully larger(not holding my breath)) sensors.

 

[moreorless]

<p>According to an interview with Mr Makoto Sakaeta Masaya, the managing director of Canon Image Communication Business Division. Canon is exploring the possibility of a new lens mount. I suspect its application would be for a full frame mirrorless system of some kind.</p>

in no place in this interview was full frame mentioned - just the reverse - the intent of the interview was that things should be made smaller - such as 1" sensor / m43's as the quality of those sensors improve.

not to mention the current EF-M throat dimension once you remove the baffling can already support a full frame sensor.

full frame doesn't do anything for the miniturization of the "system" which is what Masaya was talking about.

everyone's running amok on this thread - and there's no indication whatsoever that canon's making a bigger than APS-C MILC.

(the only thing that would make sense for bigger than APS-C would be medium format)

One possibility would be as I mentioned that Sony by shoehorning FF lenses into a mount ment for ASPC lenses has actually compromised its FE system.

Again look at the RX1 one lens design with the massive rear element...

Maybe FF mirrorless size saving would be greater with a larger mount that can allow such big rear elements to avoid issues with light dropoff and boarder softness?

I'd agree people have run riot with any idea of FF mirrorless but I wouldn't say its impossible, beyond the above point remember of course that the EF-M system is quite limited anyway so linking it to a FF mirrorless one wouldn't really matter that much. Personally I see relatively little benefit of linking even the larger E-mount system, all the FE lenses are large an expensive and don't see like something an ASPC user would buy unlike the EF mount that offers quite a few lenses attractive to ASPC users,

Besides that and MF another possibility I spose is a system more like the Nikon 1 and targeting it with lenses like the new 70-300mm Nikon have just released as a small action/wildlife camera.

 

[AvTvM]

Maybe FF mirrorless size saving would be greater with a larger mount that can allow such big rear elements to avoid issues with light dropoff and boarder softness?

no MAYBE there. The BIGGER the freakin' hole in the body compared to sensor inside is, the EASIER it is to design

• optically better and/or
• smaller and lighter and/or
• less pricey

lenses.

Sony/Zeiss FE lenses are so ridiculously expensive and huge, because that mount hole is simply too small relative to the FF sensor inside. Sony made a huge mistake using the APS-C sized E-mount hole as basis for their new FF mirrorless line. It is a totally unnecessary weak spot built-in from the very start and this achilles heel will hurt them ever more year after year, as competitors will come to market with better, cheaper and more compact lens ranges for FF sensored MILCs.

Canon EF-M lenses are so damn small, damn good and downright cheap, because the EF-M mount - like all current Canon mounts EF7EF-S/EF-M - has a really generous clearance and is very well-sized relative to the sensor inside [and to the chosen flange distance]. And no, EF-M cannot possibly handle an FF sensor in an uncompromised, meaningful and quality fashion. Luckily Canon has repeatedly also stated this and will not compromise on that one. 8)

 

[J.R.]

Canon is looking to shut up the "Canon isn't innovating" brigade ;D

The last line takes the cake though -

And so on the products that you intend to produce a new fun as an interchangeable lens system, please keep looking forward to it.

Now, I know that it is a translation but I couldn't resist.

 

[moreorless]

Maybe FF mirrorless size saving would be greater with a larger mount that can allow such big rear elements to avoid issues with light dropoff and boarder softness?

no MAYBE there. The BIGGER the freakin' hole in the body compared to sensor inside is, the EASIER it is to design

• optically better and/or
• smaller and lighter and/or
• less pricey

lenses.

Sony/Zeiss FE lenses are so ridiculously expensive and huge, because that mount hole is simply too small relative to the FF sensor inside. Sony made a huge mistake using the APS-C sized E-mount hole as basis for their new FF mirrorless line. It is a totally unnecessary weak spot built-in from the very start and this achilles heel will hurt them ever more year after year, as competitors will come to market with better, cheaper and more compact lens ranges for FF sensored MILCs.

Canon EF-M lenses are so damn small, damn good and downright cheap, because the EF-M mount - like all current Canon mounts EF7EF-S/EF-M - has a really generous clearance and is very well-sized relative to the sensor inside [and to the chosen flange distance]. And no, EF-M cannot possibly handle an FF sensor in an uncompromised, meaningful and quality fashion. Luckily Canon has repeatedly also stated this and will not compromise on that one. 8)

I wouldn't be surprised, to me the whole FE system looked like it was thrown together in a bit of a mad rush to be first to market and could potentially highlight why that isn't always a good idea. You look back to the AF revolution and the EF mount was actually quite late to the party but ended up dominating by providing better performance.

On other difference I could see with a Canon FF mirrorless system would be that unlike Sony it likely wouldn't be trying to replace FF DSLR's but rather aiming for specifically at the small camera market. Sony are IMHO clearly trying to use this system to makeup for their failure to build more market share with the FF A-mount, Canon aren't in that situation. I could see the end result being rather similar to the EOS M system, for the kind of market who buys a camera like that(generally in Japan) the lenses are very well targeted, especially in terms of not crippling kit options the way Sony tend to, I could see a similar kind of lineup for a FF system, half a dozen or so lenses would probably give most users what there after(normal/UWA zooms, f/2 primes plus maybe a short f/2.8 macro) anything else could be adapted from EF.

 

[studio1972]

Seems strange to me that Canon hasn't done more with their current mirrorless system. If you look at what Fuji are doing with a crop sensor, but pro level lenses and ergonomics. The problem with Canon mirrorless isn't that the sensor is too small (in fact, aps might turn out to be the optimum sensor size for mirror less), it's that they've made no effort to produce a system with fast lenses and pro level bodies.

 

[RAKAMRAK]

I hope it is mirrorless fullframe system like A7 etc. I have been looking at this lightweight camera for sometime, but do not know the quality of their lenses so did not want to make the jump. If this new canon system gives me a lightweight mirrorless fullframe - it would be so great for my hiking - every oz. counts.

 

[DRR]

Seems strange to me that Canon hasn't done more with their current mirrorless system. If you look at what Fuji are doing with a crop sensor, but pro level lenses and ergonomics. The problem with Canon mirrorless isn't that the sensor is too small (in fact, aps might turn out to be the optimum sensor size for mirror less), it's that they've made no effort to produce a system with fast lenses and pro level bodies.

I think they are (rightfully) hesitant to do that, as it's their golden goose. The EOS-M was them dipping their toes in the water and "beta testing" the EF-M mount, which I think could become the future native mount for all APS-C.

Canon is a big enough company, with a loyal enough user base, that they don't need to do what Fuji is doing right now. They can cede that market to the Fuji and the Sony, because once the market settles down and Fuji and Sony and Samsung have found the "magic formula" of what types of cameras people want, Canon can put their full weight behind doing the same thing except with a Canon nameplate, and full EF/EF-S compatibility, and then just steamroll the competition.

That is to say, Canon's strategy is not to tire themselves out with a flurry of punches early, but wait and play defensively until their opponents tire, saving their money and learning their opponents weaknesses, and when the time is right, go for the knockout blow.

It is just a market timing strategy, they are not neglecting the market.

 

[studio1972]

Seems strange to me that Canon hasn't done more with their current mirrorless system. If you look at what Fuji are doing with a crop sensor, but pro level lenses and ergonomics. The problem with Canon mirrorless isn't that the sensor is too small (in fact, aps might turn out to be the optimum sensor size for mirror less), it's that they've made no effort to produce a system with fast lenses and pro level bodies.

I think they are (rightfully) hesitant to do that, as it's their golden goose. The EOS-M was them dipping their toes in the water and "beta testing" the EF-M mount, which I think could become the future native mount for all APS-C.

Canon is a big enough company, with a loyal enough user base, that they don't need to do what Fuji is doing right now. They can cede that market to the Fuji and the Sony, because once the market settles down and Fuji and Sony and Samsung have found the "magic formula" of what types of cameras people want, Canon can put their full weight behind doing the same thing except with a Canon nameplate, and full EF/EF-S compatibility, and then just steamroll the competition.

That is to say, Canon's strategy is not to tire themselves out with a flurry of punches early, but wait and play defensively until their opponents tire, saving their money and learning their opponents weaknesses, and when the time is right, go for the knockout blow.

It is just a market timing strategy, they are not neglecting the market.

I don't think that's a sensible strategy. I sold my canon gear and moved to Fuji, as I didn't want to wait for years for Canon to make a move, and Fuji have rewarded my leap of faith with great cameras like the XT1 and lenses like the 56mm 1.2. Many others are jumping ship now and if Canon leave it too long, it might be too late for them to join the party. Just look what happened to Kodak!

 

[Tugela]

WOW!

It seems that finally the big heavy dinosaur is starting to move.
The only thing I can interpret into this rumor is, that they needed to see the success of Sony on FF mirrorless to understand that the customer have already seen the advantages in body and lens size as well as easier and more performant optical design.
If they'll also prevent some EF adaptor for the old lenses to make the system change easier for the current Canon DSLR owners I think the finally did understand the desire of a lot of people in the market.

But even if this is true I still see some time to pass until the system is worth a closer look.
Not because of performant bodies but because of a system with some really performant lenses.
But an EF adaptor surely would help here. Although the size advantage would become irrelevant then.

Ya. The only problem that is has just begun to move, which means that in three years they will be where everyone else is today

And by that time everyone else would have moved on.

 

[Tugela]

Seems strange to me that Canon hasn't done more with their current mirrorless system. If you look at what Fuji are doing with a crop sensor, but pro level lenses and ergonomics. The problem with Canon mirrorless isn't that the sensor is too small (in fact, aps might turn out to be the optimum sensor size for mirror less), it's that they've made no effort to produce a system with fast lenses and pro level bodies.

But they made a white one? Is that not good enough to demonstrate their technological prowess?

 

[Maximilian]

But even if this is true I still see some time to pass until the system is worth a closer look.
Not because of performant bodies but because of a system with some really performant lenses.
But an EF adaptor surely would help here. Although the size advantage would become irrelevant then.

Ya. The only problem that is has just begun to move, which means that in three years they will be where everyone else is today

And by that time everyone else would have moved on.

Totally agree. That's what I meant in my second paragraph:
We'll have to be patient until and we'll have to judge when something is released.

 

[Sella174]

I don't think that's a sensible strategy. I sold my canon gear and moved to Fuji, as I didn't want to wait for years for Canon to make a move, and Fuji have rewarded my leap of faith with great cameras like the XT1 and lenses like the 56mm 1.2. Many others are jumping ship now and if Canon leave it too long, it might be too late for them to join the party. Just look what happened to Kodak!

Same here ... and now it seems that those few EF(-S) lenses I haven't yet sold won't be usable as-is when/if Canon finally brings a decent mirrorless camera to market.

 

[Busted Knuckles]

I must apologize for this event - it was triggered when I finally broke down and bought the M a few weeks ago.

I am truly sorry for triggering this cataclysm.