Canon releases an official statement about the EOS R5 and EOS R6 heat concerns

eat-sleep-code

I'm New Here
Sep 7, 2018
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My own personal pet peeve doesn't even have anything to do with overheating....why on earth Canon equips cameras with two card slots then only lets you create backup recordings for photography and not video is completely beyond me.

You do realize that an SD Card is not capable of ingesting 8K RAW or 4K 120 footage, right? The solution would be dual CF Express cards. Then people would complain that you needed to drop so much money on storage. Perhaps on the 1DX mirrorless replacement, but this is not the camera for that.
 
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SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
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Here's something else Canon says, from the same piece (my emphasis) - you seem to have "accidentally" neglected to tell the whole story:


Are you telling us that a camera that can do 4k 10 bit for as long as it's needed and cropped/uncropped 8k 10 bit as well, doesn't fulfil the criteria to be a pro support camera?

Canon also says (my emphasis again):


Seems to me that they're very being clear that depending on the production, the R5 might serve as the lead device, or as a support camera.

And at 4k, yes, if can be the lead camera.
Well said.... Or inexpensive crash cam at under US$4K...
 
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SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,364
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I did not accidentally neglect anything. the logic here is an AND statement not an OR statement ....it can be a lead production camera AND it can be a support camera. The part you are conveniently neglecting to add is that it overheats in pretty much all high quality modes including 4K120, 4K60, and 4K30. The only time it will not overheat is in line skipped modes which you can already get from the EOS R and many other camera bodies.

You also keep skipping the fact that you will only get those listed times at 73F. What happens when it is 100F and 100% humidity? What happens if you just need many short clips throughout the day will it still overheat? What happens when you shoot all day for a photo shoot then need to switch over to video, how soon will it overheat? Many real world scenarios will drastically lower the listed times and no customer will care why you are standing around waiting for your equipment to start working again...they are just going to hire someone else next time.

As a photography camera the R5 and R6 are fantastic, as hybrid cameras unless plenty of real world testing reveals otherwise, on paper so far they are not reliable enough to use for hybrid paying work, its just that simple. The problem is they are both marketed as paying gig production level hybrid cameras with a heavy emphasis on video and based on the thermal limitations I disagree with this viewpoint.

+++++What happens when it is 100F and 100%

A.M.: did you read R5/R6 specifications at all?

maximum humidity level: 85%

so... Proceed with caution and at you own risk. operating Your equipment outside of ... you know the gist..
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
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Again. Did Canon extended any promises of thermal stability? Answer is: no. More over: limitations are clearly defined in the final specification so are by design. Consider your circumstances carefully. Do not buy if in doubt.
I understand that you are disappointed.

however your logic is false and shaky:

++++ the only reliable video frame rate and quality that you can get out of the R5 is the same thing you get out of the EOS R

A.M. : incorrect. R5 offers much broader range of video frame rates, non-cropped video, etc. Define reliability please?

++++ All Canon had to do was make an R6H version like Panasonic did, make it bigger, add a fan, give it backup video recording capabilities, and remove the recording time limit. That would have been the perfect camera.

A.M. what That would do to weather sealing in your opinion? This Is not a camcorder. Remember? This is primarily a still camera With hybrid and powerful video capabilities.

R5 is obviously not a right product for you. I got it. Why wouldn’t you move on and focus on what is important to you instead. life Is good ;)

It actually never was the right product for me, the R6 was more interesting and yes you are right, based on the final specs neither are the right camera for me, and yes I am disappointed....but I do think people are unfairly giving Canon a pass just because it is Canon so I voice my opinion when that's the way it appears to me.

Canon made the choices they did, there's nothing anyone on a forum can do about it except vote with their wallets but that doesn't mean we can't also voice our frustration and disappointment at the same time which is the whole point of having a forum to begin with.
 
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herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
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120Hz EVF is laggy?

It is compared to an OVF. The lag is the main reason I still prefer my 5DIV. Anything less than 0 lag is still lag..whether it is perceptible to the human eye remains to be seen. The other reason is battery life....an OVF does not require power.
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
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You do realize that an SD Card is not capable of ingesting 8K RAW or 4K 120 footage, right? The solution would be dual CF Express cards. Then people would complain that you needed to drop so much money on storage. Perhaps on the 1DX mirrorless replacement, but this is not the camera for that.

I didn't say anything about 8K footage...you do realize that in no modes on the R5, R6, or 1DX III can you do backup video recording right? BTW the 1DX III has two CF Express cards and the R6 has two SD cards. It would be perfectly acceptable if 8K and 4K120 could only be written to one card due to hardware limitations, but Canon refuses to add backup recording to any of their dual slot bodies.
 
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Go Wild

EOS RP
Dec 8, 2014
292
360
I did not accidentally neglect anything. the logic here is an AND statement not an OR statement ....it can be a lead production camera AND it can be a support camera. The part you are conveniently neglecting to add is that it overheats in pretty much all high quality modes including 4K120, 4K60, and 4K30. The only time it will not overheat is in line skipped modes which you can already get from the EOS R and many other camera bodies.

You also keep skipping the fact that you will only get those listed times at 73F. What happens when it is 100F and 100% humidity? What happens if you just need many short clips throughout the day will it still overheat? What happens when you shoot all day for a photo shoot then need to switch over to video, how soon will it overheat? Many real world scenarios will drastically lower the listed times and no customer will care why you are standing around waiting for your equipment to start working again...they are just going to hire someone else next time.

As a photography camera the R5 and R6 are fantastic, as hybrid cameras unless plenty of real world testing reveals otherwise, on paper so far they are not reliable enough to use for hybrid paying work, its just that simple. The problem is they are both marketed as paying gig production level hybrid cameras with a heavy emphasis on video and based on the thermal limitations I disagree with this viewpoint.

I do understand your concerns and myself I am a bit concern also. Bu not much! Lets see...In last weekend I was shooting with the A7R3, it was near 41ºc it was sooo hot! I was shooting 4k25fps and after 15mt camera overheat! Then i grabbed the Sony Fs5 and completed the scenes before I waited about 1 hour to film again with the gimble with the A7r3. My point is....You will always get overheat with mirrorless cameras that dont have fan cooling system. And even with cooling system I believe that if the day is too hot you get overheating. So the solution is to get 1 or more cameras or to get a dedicated cinema camera to pair. The best solution is to get a C300 and this one (The R5) as a B camera....Or...to get 2 or 3 bodies R5.

I think there is a big misinterpretation of this mirrorless cameras. The R5 is a hybrid camera, this is not an A7s2 or the new A7s3 which is a dedicated video centric mirrorless. So we need to understand that the R5 will not be perfect for video! But....And this is a biig but, despite is not perfect for video, it is really a monster!!! 4k120fps....4:2:2 10 bit....Man....If I want that I must shoot with the Atomos inferno and the Sony Fs5II and even with those I only have 8 seconds recording which is the equivalent of having about 1 minute video in a 25fps timeline.

So, for me 8k is a no go. I believe I will use it sometimes, but just in very special occasions when for example I need a big crop. 20 minutos film will be more than enough.
My concerns are in 4k120fps but lets be honest...Most of the times I shoot small bursts of 120fps. usually fast scenes that only lasts about 10 seconds or so. In this scenario I will not believe I have problems during 1 day of filming....Unless it is a very hot day and then I will have problems with ALL cameras except the ones with strong cooling sistems. My advice is always keep camera out of the direct sun and use an external fan to generate external cooling. This helps a lot! And they are cheap , small and portable.

If you plan to use 4k60fps all the time and film like vlogging style...well then you have a potencial problem...

So to finnish...If you want t use mirrorless cameras to make big productions, or if you know you film a lot of time during a hole day...Then maybe you may need to think in a different camera. But, for me i have another solution! I will buy the EOS R5 and R6. If, and IF the R5 get´s too hot, I will record with the R6 at 4k25fps and I wont have too many issues. I will use the R5 to the 4k120fps and to photography. And that´s it, problem solved!! :D :D

I am looking forward to have my new babies!
 
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BeenThere

EOS R
CR Pro
Sep 4, 2012
1,243
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It is compared to an OVF. The lag is the main reason I still prefer my 5DIV. Anything less than 0 lag is still lag..whether it is perceptible to the human eye remains to be seen. The other reason is battery life....an OVF does not require power.
Everything has lag. Even light travels at a finite speed. Lag is a continuum that has various implications depending on the severity. It is one of the trade off variable, but there other important ones as well. If you are picking nits, it does require power to flip the mirror if using an SLR; but, who is picking nits. :geek:
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
Aug 15, 2014
2,123
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Mandeville, LA
Shields-Photography.com
I don't know. it entirely depends if they feed the HDMI port from the liveview feed.

but in reality there are a few tricks that Sony users have done - remove the battery and use USB / DC charge. open the LCD up, etc.

What's weird is that Canon is UPFRONT about all this. Sony you had to find out after you bought the camera - yet who's taking the heat? (literally)
Have to assume that Canon will keep doing things the same way they have until now. HDMI 2.0 should be able to support all these frame rate functions (minus 8K and 4K120 of course).
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
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your suggestion is to buy More equipment or not use the video features that set this camera apart. That sort of defeats the purpose of buying the camera for many people:
The camera specs that got the most attention were the video specs.

I plan on getting the R6 and sticking with 4K 60. I suspect that will work for me but I understand that some could be disappointed if the R5 has a heating issue

8K and 4K120 have to be done internally, but even wih the biggest CFExpress card, you'll hit the recording limit or fill the card about the same time this single continuous shot overheating issue becomes a problem... So What are you really missing? And again, I've never run across a situation where I'd single shot 4k120 for 30 mins anyhow.

And for all the other modes, if you're buying a $600 CFExpress card at 512MB... why not just buy a $600 Ninja? You're buying other equipment anyway with CFExpress.
 
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twoheadedboy

EOS R5
CR Pro
Jan 3, 2018
279
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Kenosha, WI
I did not accidentally neglect anything. the logic here is an AND statement not an OR statement ....it can be a lead production camera AND it can be a support camera. The part you are conveniently neglecting to add is that it overheats in pretty much all high quality modes including 4K120, 4K60, and 4K30. The only time it will not overheat is in line skipped modes which you can already get from the EOS R and many other camera bodies.

You also keep skipping the fact that you will only get those listed times at 73F. What happens when it is 100F and 100% humidity? What happens if you just need many short clips throughout the day will it still overheat? What happens when you shoot all day for a photo shoot then need to switch over to video, how soon will it overheat? Many real world scenarios will drastically lower the listed times and no customer will care why you are standing around waiting for your equipment to start working again...they are just going to hire someone else next time.

As a photography camera the R5 and R6 are fantastic, as hybrid cameras unless plenty of real world testing reveals otherwise, on paper so far they are not reliable enough to use for hybrid paying work, its just that simple. The problem is they are both marketed as paying gig production level hybrid cameras with a heavy emphasis on video and based on the thermal limitations I disagree with this viewpoint.

It is not in any way accurate to compare the EOS R's 4k 30p (8-bit color with 1.8x crop on 30 MP sensor w/DIGIC 8 and DPAF 1) with the R5's (10-bit color with no crop on 45 MP sensor w/DIGIC X and DPAF 2).
 
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Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
2,232
1,542
I didn't say anything about 8K footage...you do realize that in no modes on the R5, R6, or 1DX III can you do backup video recording right?
Are you sure?

As I heard, you can simultaneously record 8K RAW (to CFExpress) and 4K IPB (to SD) on R5.
 

Keith_Reeder

I really don't mind offending trolls.
Feb 8, 2014
960
475
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I did not accidentally neglect anything.
I'm well aware of that - you deliberately selectively quoted content that happened to support your narrative.

:rolleyes:

Trouble with that trick is that it only works if nobody else examines the source material properly. It tends to fall over when the people you're trying to con can read.

The fact is that Canon hasn't said (only) what you're insisting they said. They've been completely clear about how the R5 might be used, and because you don't like the message, you're trying to convince us that they said something else.

And look how that has worked out...
 
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herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
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Are you sure?

As I heard, you can simultaneously record 8K RAW (to CFExpress) and 4K IPB (to SD) on R5.

Kit, yes I am sure, and you are correct you can record two "different" formats to two different cards but that is proxy recording, that is not backup recording. True backup recording is simply simultaneously writing the same format to both cards. Having to record in 8K RAW just to get a backup is not an acceptable alternative to just being able to write other formats to both cards. The fact you can record 8K RAW and 4K simultaneously tells me it is not a hardware limitation it's just Canon doesn't feel it's important enough to include. Sony, Panasonic, and probably other brands as well all support this feature.
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
364
I'm well aware of that - you deliberately selectively quoted content that happened to support your narrative.

:rolleyes:

Trouble with that trick is that it only works if nobody else examines the source material properly. It tends to fall over when the people you're trying to con can read.

The fact is that Canon hasn't said (only) what you're insisting they said. They've been completely clear about how the R5 might be used, and because you don't like the message, you're trying to convince us that they said something else.

And look how that has worked out...

You are absolutely right...I did pick out of the press release from Canon the part of their press release that contradicts the reality of their second press release about overheating. If I agree with the rest of a narrative but am pointing out the parts that I disagree with why would I restate the obvious? Of course they also said it could be used as a support camera..so what we all know that already, and I have no problems with that part of their narrative. A camera that overheats in 30 seconds can be used as a support camera if you only need a 29 second clip.

My point was they did not stop there and they also said it could be the primary camera for a production.....this part of their narrative does not match the part where it will probably overheat when doing the things that a primary camera on a production is expected to do based on the paper specs we have been provided so far.

And BTW it is working out for me great...my bank account and my wallet thank Canon for making it easy for me to sit this one out. If real world reports show the whole thing is overblown and Canon adds backup video recording to the R6 then I'm back in the race. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, I never even intended to get the R5 all I'm pointing out is that everyone is giving Canon a pass because they are documenting their overheating issues when we all had a good laugh at Sony when they had overheating issues.

What other industry in the world would just accept overheating when using a feature that was provided by the manufacturer as normal? Would you be OK if you bought a brand new car but it came with a warning that it would overheat every 50 miles and that you would have to wait 20min for it to cool down so that you could drive 5 more miles? We all love Canon here but come on....overheating in any context means the manufacturer did not do what was needed to prevent it...just because it is documented does not mean it has to be considered acceptable.
 
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twoheadedboy

EOS R5
CR Pro
Jan 3, 2018
279
418
Kenosha, WI
What other industry in the world would just accept overheating when using a feature that was provided by the manufacturer as normal? Would you be OK if you bought a brand new car but it came with a warning that it would overheat every 50 miles and that you would have to wait 20min for it to cool down so that you could drive 5 more miles? We all love Canon here but come on....overheating in any context means the manufacturer did not do what was needed to prevent it...just because it is documented does not mean it has to be considered acceptable.

Your car probably WOULD overheat or malfunction if you put the pedal to the floor for 20 straight minutes...that's what 8k 30/4k 120/4k 60/4k 30 HQ represent. Powerful computers without cooling do, as well. Copiers have a "duty cycle" that represents an approx. number of pages per month they can handle, and if you repeatedly and significantly exceed that, it increases the likelihood that it will break down (and can make you ineligible for a warranty replacement of the consumables).
 
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