Canon to announce EOS-1D X equivalent EOS R system camera in 2021?

[richperson]

I do not find the R or even the RP for that matter awkward or mediocre, why sully an otherwise reasonable post with negativity?

I carry my R along side my 1DXii and 7Dii often. It is certainly no less sturdy than the 7D--at least in any environment I have been in. Feels very solid, albeit a bit more compact. As I have said before, if I'm shooting anything other than sports its the first body out of the bag.

 

[Diltiazem]

everything's pretty fuzzy really.

However, if you look at Canon's evolution of mirrorless in the last 12 months, they are getting closer to delivering a camera that would be in that category. They have managed to eek out 14 fps across 32MP. That's more than enough if they can get the full frame sensors working quickly enough to handle a 5D system. The AF is going to be dramatically improved in a few weeks for the R and RP. Good AF, fast processing is half the battle for a 5D styled camera.

Also - Canon won't go into the best marketing year in the last 20 years without some serious RF announcements. They will have HUGE presence at CP+, Photokina and their own Canon Expo next year.

I'd be shocked if we didn't get at least two EOS R cameras, but that's my own personal opinion.

May be Canon's main obstacle at the moment is IBIS. May be Canon doesn't want to release a 5DV type mirrorless without IBIS. After all, reading the forums, it appears that Canon will be doomed if it doesn't have IBIS in its next FF mirrorless.

 

[masterpix]

"Canon also mentions that they’re working on a converter/adapter to turn a mirrorless camera into a DSLR. "
I would be more interested in an adapter that does it the other way around...

Well, the other way is called "live view" where the mirror is up and, in all aspects, the camera is mirrorless. However, I wonder how the optics will work in such a case, afterall, the main benefit of mirrorless is the ability to generate optics that can focus the image much closer to the rear of the lense, which allows much more felxinility in the optical design.

 

[unfocused]

Fair point regarding my opinion of the R. I have not tried it. I base my opinion on reading and viewing everything I can find about the R, as I'm very eager to buy the new RF glass...

...I call the R awkward because it doesn't have a joystick, or a mechanical mode dial on top, and because I think the arrangement of the buttons on the back does not look comfortable. The touch strip seems to be either useless or difficult to use, based on my intuition (which is wrong often enough) and many long-term use reviews...

..."Mediocre" does seem a fair rating of it going by specs. And by its minimal weather sealing and middle of the road EVF performance. It has a single SD slot. It isn't very good for sports or other action. I stick by "mediocre."...

This is exactly why so many of us get frustrated. You admit that you posted out of ignorance, but when you were unable to rationally argue your points you chose name calling, rather than acknowledging your lack of knowledge. See your comment below:

Thank you for proving my point about the typical responses of a handful of zealots who cannot stand to have their camera's manufacturer criticized, who make it a mission to immediately quash grumbling among the troops.

Personally, and as I have posted many times, I am not anxious to buy RF glass. (Well, maybe the 15-35, but it's fairly low on my priority list right now). I own the 24-105 because I took advantage of a tremendous Canon Price Watch deal and, since this is my most used lens I wanted to try the RF version and have the convenience of not using an adapter and constantly switching the EF lens between the R and the 5D.

With a mirrorless touch screen, joysticks are no longer needed. After just one day of test driving the R (rented before buying) I was happy to trade the touch screen for the joystick and every time I use the 5D, 1D or 7D I find myself wishing I had a touchscreen rather than a joystick.

I actually had to look at the R to see what you are talking about regarding the mode dial. There is a simple button that says MODE on it. Easier to use than any dial and much easier than the 1D system for changing modes. Someone would have to be pretty stupid not to be able to figure that out.

I don't know what you mean by "the buttons don't look comfortable." The AF On button isn't in the most convenient spot, but I hardly ever use it anyway, since focusing in servo using the touch screen is much easier and more accurate than a DSLR.

Yeah, the multi-function bar isn't all that useful and definitely needs a few tweaks. I suspect most of the problems could be solved by a firmware revision, but honestly, nobody has to use the bar if they don't want to. You aren't giving up anything that a DSLR has by turning it off.

I don't know what is mediocre about the R. I retails for $700 less than a 5DIV and, from personal experience, I would say that I get about 98% of the 5D performance for approximately 75% of the price. Plus, there are advantages that I can't get on the 5DIV or the 1D at any price (like the wonderful touch screen focus point selection, the massive increase in focus point coverage and never having to worry about AFMA).

I've never used another EVF, so I can't really declare whether the R is middle-of-the road or not, but since you've never used the R, I suspect you don't know either. Maybe it just sounded like a good thing to write or maybe you are just quoting some random reviewer. I know this, I thought I would hate the EVF, but I've found I actually like it quite well. Seeing the impact of exposure changes in real time is excellent. No more having to trust the DSLR's +/- exposure compensation markers and then checking the screen after the picture has been taken. In low light or difficult lighting situations (such as stage performances), being able to see what the exposure is going to look like and not having to guess is a real plus.

I guess "minimal" weather sealing is in the eyes of the beholder. Roger Cicala's teardown indicates very good weather sealing around buttons and knobs (the places that are the most vulnerable) and reliance on tightly fitting components for the body. I don't consider that "minimal" so much as a design and manufacturing change where today parts can be assembled to closer tolerances. Rubber seals might actually be less desirable than well fitting parts. I'm no manufacturing engineer so I'm not qualified to judge, but then I doubt if you are either.

I know some people feel like a single card slot is a deal breaker. So be it. As for me, I consider it silly. But then, I only had one film slot for most of my life and I had a lot more failures from the film not catching on the take up spool than I will ever have from a bad card.

Not sure what the basis is of your pronouncement that it isn't very good for sports or other action. Although I'm primarily a sports photographer, I've only tried some limited experiments with the R. I'm getting paid to bring back quality sports pictures and like most people who have to satisfy a client or employer, I'll stick with what I know, which is the 1Dx II and limit my experiments to times when I've already gotten what I need. But then, I''d say the same of the 5DIV. I've tried some sports and some birds in flight and have gotten both great shots and massive misses, so I'm still learning what is my fault and what are the camera's weaknesses. Still, Sports Illustrated photographer Peter Read Miller seemed pretty impressed. I think I will take his word over yours.

So, I guess you can just label me a zealot if you want. But, at least I'm commenting out of actual experience instead of "feelings."

 

[wyotex43n]

I want to know about a 7dmkII replacement and an R with dual card slots, Ibis (to take advantage of that F2 zoom) and a better sensor. Hopefully they come before a mirrorless 1dx.

 

[deleteme]

I have no need for a 1DX style camera. I need a pro feature version of a 5D Mark IV though. Dual card slots is a must. And it doesn't have to have stellar video, but it needs to be as good as the 5D4.

Add a card slot to the R and you are good then.

 

[deleteme]

I would seriously consider not switching from the 5D IV to the EOS R. The EOS R has limitations that the 5D MKIV simply doesnt have. Aside from the one card slot it has infuriating aspects like the pointless touch bar, the touch screen that moves the focus point if your nose touches. The lack of finesse when placing focus points (tons better using the toggle switch). Why Canon went also with the cheaper remote connection is beyond me. Do get me wrong its lighter, the pictures look great but its definitely not a professional camera in the same league as the 5D series.
On the plus side the RF lenses Ive used are better than their EF counterparts.

For event photography the R beats hell out of the mk4. One can see in the dark with the EVF and AF is dead accurate. As for the touch screen, when set up properly one’s nose never shifts focus points.
The control ring is very useful for setting exposure comp or, in my case, aperture. Of course it can be configured in any number of ways which is the defining advantage of the body.
Silent shooting is also truly silent while the mk4 gets almost as quiet as a Nikon.
If you don’t like the touch bar don’t activate it.

 

[Ozarker]

I agree. 2021 seems long for releasing this. I realize that's only 16 months from now but I would have thought fall of 2020 with select photographers testing it at the Olympics next year.

The article does say they are presently in testing... so probably.

 

[Ozarker]

Now it’s a very big question to invest in the lenses line, because they might actually not be able to get a pro-body out at all. I was enthousiastic and willing to wait a little, but it looks like u have to wait until they actually get a real camera out to see if it’s worth investing in the linup

They do have a real camera out, AvTvM. It is the R. BTW: I thought your mantra was always, "smaller and lighter".

 

[Ozarker]

Except it's the old guys who have patience.

Reminds me of the old joke about the Camel and Donkey in the desert.

 

[Ozarker]

New member here, first post, and trying to catch up with all these rumors...
So I just read this rumor about the pro "1DX like" EOS R body wouldn't be available before 2021 and that made me think... Could it be because there will be another body that will come up in 2020, before the 1DX equivalent? Like a "5D Mark IV" equivalent with a better sensor and better video possibilities? The EOS R body that came up one year ago is like a 6D Mk II's equivalent in mirrorless, but with a 5D Mark IV sensor... Maybe Canon's strategy is to develop a more versatile camera that can be used by pros, before coming up with a 1DX equivalent flagship for mirrorless? Does this make sense at all?

Actually, the R is leaps and bounds beyond the 6D Mark II, and in many ways beyond the 5D Mark IV.

I think you are right. A very high megapixel (80+) is coming down the pike soon. Maybe 2020?

 

[Ozarker]

Market is the first part of marketshare.

Also a side note, Nero never played the fiddle during the fire and he paid for redev out of his own pocket thereafter. True, it depends whom you ask, Pliny the Elder or Tacitus.....

Still, Canon won't be changing their style because a few kids on a camera forum. Oh and dslr's? Not going anywhere soon. ML still suck too much, lol. Maybe one day they will be be on an even playing field. That would be sweet. I give it about until 2026.

And let's not forget the fiddle (violin) wasn't invented until the early 16th century. Nero died in 68 AD, if memory serves me correctly.

I completely agree.

Unless one shoots beach bunnies. Wildlife at it's best.

 

[Ozarker]

For event photography the R beats hell out of the mk4. One can see in the dark with the EVF and AF is dead accurate. As for the touch screen, when set up properly one’s nose never shifts focus points.
The control ring is very useful for setting exposure comp or, in my case, aperture. Of course it can be configured in any number of ways which is the defining advantage of the body.
Silent shooting is also truly silent while the mk4 gets almost as quiet as a Nikon.
If you don’t like the touch bar don’t activate it.

Absolutely right. And the more I use it, the more I like it. That includes the Super L lenses. Really, those lenses should have two red rings or have Super L printed on them. If you are like me, I need to build the lens stable. The body is secondary. Glass, glass, glass.

 

[digigal]

This is exactly why so many of us get frustrated. You admit that you posted out of ignorance, but when you were unable to rationally argue your points you chose name calling, rather than acknowledging your lack of knowledge. See your comment below:



Personally, and as I have posted many times, I am not anxious to buy RF glass. (Well, maybe the 15-35, but it's fairly low on my priority list right now). I own the 24-105 because I took advantage of a tremendous Canon Price Watch deal and, since this is my most used lens I wanted to try the RF version and have the convenience of not using an adapter and constantly switching the EF lens between the R and the 5D.

With a mirrorless touch screen, joysticks are no longer needed. After just one day of test driving the R (rented before buying) I was happy to trade the touch screen for the joystick and every time I use the 5D, 1D or 7D I find myself wishing I had a touchscreen rather than a joystick.

I actually had to look at the R to see what you are talking about regarding the mode dial. There is a simple button that says MODE on it. Easier to use than any dial and much easier than the 1D system for changing modes. Someone would have to be pretty stupid not to be able to figure that out.

I don't know what you mean by "the buttons don't look comfortable." The AF On button isn't in the most convenient spot, but I hardly ever use it anyway, since focusing in servo using the touch screen is much easier and more accurate than a DSLR.

Yeah, the multi-function bar isn't all that useful and definitely needs a few tweaks. I suspect most of the problems could be solved by a firmware revision, but honestly, nobody has to use the bar if they don't want to. You aren't giving up anything that a DSLR has by turning it off.

I don't know what is mediocre about the R. I retails for $700 less than a 5DIV and, from personal experience, I would say that I get about 98% of the 5D performance for approximately 75% of the price. Plus, there are advantages that I can't get on the 5DIV or the 1D at any price (like the wonderful touch screen focus point selection, the massive increase in focus point coverage and never having to worry about AFMA).

I've never used another EVF, so I can't really declare whether the R is middle-of-the road or not, but since you've never used the R, I suspect you don't know either. Maybe it just sounded like a good thing to write or maybe you are just quoting some random reviewer. I know this, I thought I would hate the EVF, but I've found I actually like it quite well. Seeing the impact of exposure changes in real time is excellent. No more having to trust the DSLR's +/- exposure compensation markers and then checking the screen after the picture has been taken. In low light or difficult lighting situations (such as stage performances), being able to see what the exposure is going to look like and not having to guess is a real plus.

I guess "minimal" weather sealing is in the eyes of the beholder. Roger Cicala's teardown indicates very good weather sealing around buttons and knobs (the places that are the most vulnerable) and reliance on tightly fitting components for the body. I don't consider that "minimal" so much as a design and manufacturing change where today parts can be assembled to closer tolerances. Rubber seals might actually be less desirable than well fitting parts. I'm no manufacturing engineer so I'm not qualified to judge, but then I doubt if you are either.

I know some people feel like a single card slot is a deal breaker. So be it. As for me, I consider it silly. But then, I only had one film slot for most of my life and I had a lot more failures from the film not catching on the take up spool than I will ever have from a bad card.

Not sure what the basis is of your pronouncement that it isn't very good for sports or other action. Although I'm primarily a sports photographer, I've only tried some limited experiments with the R. I'm getting paid to bring back quality sports pictures and like most people who have to satisfy a client or employer, I'll stick with what I know, which is the 1Dx II and limit my experiments to times when I've already gotten what I need. But then, I''d say the same of the 5DIV. I've tried some sports and some birds in flight and have gotten both great shots and massive misses, so I'm still learning what is my fault and what are the camera's weaknesses. Still, Sports Illustrated photographer Peter Read Miller seemed pretty impressed. I think I will take his word over yours.

So, I guess you can just label me a zealot if you want. But, at least I'm commenting out of actual experience instead of "feelings."

I use the 7DMII as my main camera (wildlife) and just retired my original one that had over 380 K clicks (rated for 200 K) even though it was still functioning without a problem and bought another one because I see nothing that Canon is currently offering that is equivalent or beats it. I bought the R thinking I could use it for a walkabout camera, landscape shots, low light shots, and "maybe" even wildlife since I originally started with the Rebel 350 and figured it couldn't be worse than that. Well, for me it is. It's just fine if you stick with wide angle lenses or any little light weight lens but if you go to the 70-200/2.8 or the 100-400 II there is no way you can handhold the lens, touch focus on the screen, back button focus and trip the shutter--you have to be an octopus! It's not a problem with the 24-105 lens and smaller. Also the touch sensor just is not accurate with a rapidly moving bird in the frame and the intelligent autofocus leaves something to be desired for rapidly moving subjects. No problem with still subjects. I find it to be a camera that does well in certain limited situations but general wildlife where there is a chance of movement is not one unless you want to risk the chance of missing the focus.
As far as weather sealing, a recent post this this forum from an R owner revealed water encroachment in the EVF after minimal shower exposure (compared to what his other equipment had experienced). He was shocked at how insignificant the exposure was that resulted in the damage (which thankfully was reversed by dehumidification treatment). My take away from Cicala's teardown was that Sony's not known for being very weather resistant and the R looks just like the Sony so don't think it's any better. My just retired 7DMKII warhorse had been to 7 continents, multiple times to Africa, the Andes, the Gobi, Kolihari and Namibian deserts, both the Arctic and Antarctic multiple times--and looked like it--but never missed a beat. It had only been in for general and sensor cleaning. I doubt I'll be able to say the same for the R after reading the recent reports. That's still not to say that I haven't taken some nice shots with it, it's just not as versatile for me as the 7DMKII
Catherine
Recent trip to Farne IS for Puffins. First from the R; second from the 7DMKII:

 

[raistmaj]

EOS R owner here.

I do not shoot Wildlife so I can't comment on that, but for landscape, portrait, street photography, events, the EOS R is doing incredibly well. I miss the dual card slot and the IBIS, for me those are the 2 important features that the camera is missing and for the price I got it months ago should have.

The RF glass is simply incredible and is by far the best of the mirrorless canon lineup. The 50mm 1.2 is billions time better than the old 1.2, the 85 1.2 is so much sharper than the EF and without aberrations, the 28-70 f2 is a beast, nearly no aberrations and sharp corner to corner... and you know what is missing here? IBIS, the camera has enough megapixels to get blurred images even with the classic double the aperture shutter speed rule.

To me, what I would like to see is:

• More resolution (at least reach the 50mpx mark)
• IBIS so I can handhold the 50/85/28-70 without bumping the ISO because I have to use fast shutter speed.
• Double card slot.
• Improved dynamic range (this hurts pretty badly on landscape or trying to recover some images). I really want to see the specs for the new high resolution sensor, if they keep the same dynamic range is going to be a serious issue for me, specially compared with Sony or Fuji on this aspect.

The comments about the evf, in my personal opinion, are bull****, the evf is fantastic and once you start using it you don't want to come back to ovf, for me, the only situation where I miss my 5dmkii viewfiender is on low light situations, there the evf really struggles where a normal ovf is not that bad.

 

[bhf3737]

If you don’t like the touch bar don’t activate it.

Opposite to some reviews I have found the touch bar very useful. I have set it to quickly switch among single/multi/zone focus points with just a swipe of thumb and it is very handy for wildlife photography.

It's just fine if you stick with wide angle lenses or any little light weight lens but if you go to the 70-200/2.8 or the 100-400 II there is no way you can handhold the lens, touch focus on the screen, back button focus and trip the shutter--you have to be an octopus!

As an EOS-R owner shooting wildlife, I cannot totally agree with this statement. I usually use EOS-R with 100-400 II and the monster Sigma 60-600 almost entirely handheld even in -30C with gloves. The touch focus has been accurate and responsive and operating the camera is not that different from 5DIV. I have medium size no octopus hands. In my opinion, the ergonomics of the EOS-R camera is not its shortcoming. Perhaps the rather slow frame rate is.

 

[Otara]

Im similar, main thing with the R is more controls than needed, so takes a bit of time to decide what works best. I dont use the bar much but more because I tend to forget it, understand the octopus comment, as I have smallish hands for a guy. Like the horizontal af option, was great for fruit bats for instance. Like manual focus zoom, silent shutter etc, and with my vision, the help the EVF can give is great. So far no weatherproofing issues, but no major downpours either if Im honest - did OK in Fiji and rain though, in very high humidity.

There are tradeoffs, but for the price vs the IV when I got it, Ive been very happy with it. Wont complain about the AF update coming, but not expecting night and day either. Its no A9, but neither is it a rebel in my view.

 

[motofotog]

No IBIS no dual card slot...... Canon is doomed

 

[motofotog]

Opposite to some reviews I have found the touch bar very useful. I have set it to quickly switch among single/multi/zone focus points with just a swipe of thumb and it is very handy for wildlife photography.


As an EOS-R owner shooting wildlife, I cannot totally agree with this statement. I usually use EOS-R with 100-400 II and the monster Sigma 60-600 almost entirely handheld even in -30C with gloves. The touch focus has been accurate and responsive and operating the camera is not that different from 5DIV. I have medium size no octopus hands. In my opinion, the ergonomics of the EOS-R camera is not its shortcoming. Perhaps the rather slow frame rate is.

Just wanted to know if you have experience using EOS R with Canon 500f4L IS 1 lens( with or without converter), I am keen to know the AF performance of this combination.

 

[YuengLinger]

Im similar, main thing with the R is more controls than needed, so takes a bit of time to decide what works best. I dont use the bar much but more because I tend to forget it, understand the octopus comment, as I have smallish hands for a guy. Like the horizontal af option, was great for fruit bats for instance. Like manual focus zoom, silent shutter etc, and with my vision, the help the EVF can give is great. So far no weatherproofing issues, but no major downpours either if Im honest - did OK in Fiji and rain though, in very high humidity.

There are tradeoffs, but for the price vs the IV when I got it, Ive been very happy with it. Wont complain about the AF update coming, but not expecting night and day either. Its no A9, but neither is it a rebel in my view.

Do you wear glasses when using the camera? Does the diopter work just as well with evf as it does with ovf?