Canon updates EOS R5 8K and autofocus information

[Richard CR]

I've given up trying to guess as there are so many guesses out there ranging from £3000 / $3000 to £6000 / $6000. If we ignore that this may be a 5d mkIV replacement along with the 5D MKIV price and look at it just on the specs alone, the price could be up to £/$ 6000 as it's similar spec to the 1DX mklll.

However, although Tony & Chelsea Northrop are sometimes a little annoying, their video from 2018 was interesting about canon playing the waiting game, made a lot of sense, allowing Sony etc to develop the tech from scratch, which is hugely expensive and then reverse engineering it with new elements to take a giant leap forward without the massive initial development costs. Could this mean the price is a little more reasonable?? Who knows?

We will find out in due course I suppose, just frustrating they don't just come out with it with a caveat on potential delivery dates, instead of drip feeding and creating hype but then thats what marketing is all about.

it didn't really make sense. It was all waiting for IBIS, DIGIC X and whatever magic they tossed into their sensors.

You can see a pretty natural and common sense progression in Canon's development.
The exception perhaps being the jump they took this time. but it takes YEARS of R&D and pull of an R5. It's not as if they said we're going to hold onto this, it simply was not ready.

Further proof is all the patent applications that were filed for IBIS that didn't even publish for the tech in the R5 until last year.

it's not as if canon did all this 5+ years ago and sat on it. the patent applications are still processing for IBIS and most likely alot of other stuff that went into the 1DX Mark III and R5.

 

[slclick]

it didn't really make sense. It was all waiting for IBIS, DIGIC X and whatever magic they tossed into their sensors.

You can see a pretty natural and common sense progression in Canon's development.
The exception perhaps being the jump they took this time. but it takes YEARS of R&D and pull of an R5. It's not as if they said we're going to hold onto this, it simply was not ready.

Further proof is all the patent applications that were filed for IBIS that didn't even publish for the tech in the R5 until last year.

it's not as if canon did all this 5+ years ago and sat on it. the patent applications are still processing for IBIS and most likely alot of other stuff that went into the 1DX Mark III and R5.

Yes. I have to chuckle every time someone chimes in after a competitor announces a breakthrough spec and says Canon needs to react. No clue.

 

[herein2020]

If XLR entry is a must for you, there are other options that you can use with any other DSLR or Mirroless body.
TASCAM DR-70D is the one I own and it is a very good quality option. Less expensive than the Lumix add-on for microphone.

In Tascam brandname you have cheaper and more expensive options, depending your budget and your needs.
Tascam DR60D is cheaper, and Tascam DR 701 is more expensive with 6 XLR entries.

Tascam DR-70D | Enregistreur audio stéréo pour appareils reflex numériques (DSLR)

Enregistreur audio stéréo pour appareils reflex numériques (DSLR)

www.tascam.eu

I do also own ZOOM H4N PRO, that is a fabulous tool, that can be used for recording concerts, conferences etc.
It is a professional tool, that can also be used with a DSLR with 2 XLR Entries.
Zoom is also offering a bunch of other options depending your budget and needs. Up to 8 XLR entries...

Zoom H4n Pro

Enregistreur portable MP3 / Wave Résolution jusqu'à 24 bits / 96 kHz, Formats d'enregistrement: WAV, MP3 et le format BWF, Micros stéréo intégrés, peuvent être positionnés à 90° ou 120°, SPL max: 140 dB, Seuil de bruit amélioré (-120 dBu EIN), 2...

www.thomann.de

Both Tascam and Zoom tools can be used for pure audio projects without a camera.
The Lumix add-on can not.

Let's not forget that many brandnames have developped excellent microphones with a 3.5mm jack dedicated to DSLR camera that are producing excellent quality of sound.
I own the Audiotechnica AT8024 producing an impressive good quality of sound.
Equivalent or even better than my XLR RODE NTG2... incredible but real.

MICRO AUDIOTECHNICA AT8024

Microphone mono et stéréo à condensateur court avec prise mini jack pour appareils DSLR

www.trm.fr

Other 3.5mm jack microphones I do not own but their reputation is very good: Sennheiser MKE400, Rode VideoMic Pro+ etc.

Like you I am looking at the R5 with a videographer angle. However, for me the presence of XLR entry is not important.
Because of all the options I have just listed.
What will be key for me is the image quality of the video.
I hope much sharper than what Canon had produced up to now.

I will not buy an R5 for stills images. I am very pleased with my 6D and 60D on stills.

Let's wait for the first official footages...

Oh I agree, there are plenty of XLR options for DSLR or MILC out there, but I prefer native whenever possible. For example the Panasonic module does not require yet another battery to be charged, handles, cages, packing cases, etc were all designed to accommodate the module, it outputs straight to the internal video track etc. Events get absolutely hectic for me when I am covering the event using both photography and video; customers expect it all and then some these days. Everything in my kit has to work flawlessly every single time so I will always pick a native vendor offering over a 3rd party if at all possible. I don't really care about price as much as I care about simplicity and reliability. The Panasonic XLR module doesn't even have a power switch or LCD screen...perfect in my book.

That's why I like the concept of the R5 so much; right now I show up to events with two completely different camera systems, gimbals, tripods, video tripods, audio capture setup etc. With the R5 as my hybrid B cam I could cover the event with photography and b-roll video, lock down the C200 for the main event's A cam on a tripod, use the R5 as a second POV, gimbal work, and for photography, and record interviews using the XLR module if I don't want to move the C200.

For me personally I don't even care if the video quality is better than my current 5DIV. The 5DIV shoots fantastic video my only gripes are single card recording, useless 4K codec, and no XLR module. Interestingly Canon did make an XLR module for the XC15 so it is not without precedent.

 

[y2kunals]

Dynamic Range and Colour Depth are the HUGE ones. You can have all the frame rates and megapixels in the world, but it doesn't mean anything if the RAW file is dirt compared to Sony and Nikon. Still waiting to see if Dxo Mark puts out some numbers for the 1Dx3. Canon is still not using BSI sensors from what I understand, but I do remember a few months ago them claiming they're made leaps in sensor DR. There are no real examples to measure this yet on the 1Dx3 as far as I know. I would imagine the R5 will measure up somewhere close to, or a bit higher than the 1Dx3 (crossing fingers it's closer to Sony and Nikon).

Note - Even Panasonic is turning to Sony for sensors now. If Canon hasn't gotten their s*** together to be honest I could care less about how many fps this thing shoots. I want quality not quantity.

 

[Quackator]

Interestingly Canon did make an XLR module for the XC15 so it is not without precedent.

The patent for a modular grip is out. Who says this won't be able
to swap ethernet, battery pack, xlr ports?

 

[herein2020]

Dynamic Range and Colour Depth are the HUGE ones. You can have all the frame rates and megapixels in the world, but it doesn't mean anything if the RAW file is dirt compared to Sony and Nikon. Still waiting to see if Dxo Mark puts out some numbers for the 1Dx3. Canon is still not using BSI sensors from what I understand, but I do remember a few months ago them claiming they're made leaps in sensor DR. There are no real examples to measure this yet on the 1Dx3 as far as I know. I would imagine the R5 will measure up somewhere close to, or a bit higher than the 1Dx3 (crossing fingers it's closer to Sony and Nikon).

Note - Even Panasonic is turning to Sony for sensors now. If Canon hasn't gotten their s*** together to be honest I could care less about how many fps this thing shoots. I want quality not quantity.

I used to stress over things like that too...not anymore. I have never had a single customer say they are unhappy with a project because the cameras I used did not have enough dynamic range and I definitely couldn't care less how it stacks up to Sony or Nikon. I really think DR at this point is just another spec that pixel peepers stress over that have very little meaning in the real world.

In my opinion and in my personal experience pretty much any modern camera from any of the major camera makers has all the DR you will ever need. Especially if you are familiar with ETTR, color grading, and when possible; properly lighting a scene.

For photography the only times I have wished that I had more DR was for real estate photography and even then if you learn how to properly light the space in front of you or use tricks like flambient it is no longer an issue.

To me reliability, simplicity, lenses, color science and accessories are all way more important than DR. The average viewer will view your next Internet YouTube blockbuster at a 640x480 resolution on their cell phone...do you really think they will notice there is a tinge more blue in the sky and a smidge more detail in the shadows while they watch your latest cat video?

 

[Starting out EOS R]

It's the drip feeding that you don't like that keeps the hype going.

Jack

Im a sucker for a conspiracy theory. I doubt we will ever know how any company truly plans out a long term development plan as there are way too many factors, currency fluctuations, availability of the right people with the right knowledge, shareholder pressure for short term gains etc etc.

Its all a little trivial compared to the big things happening in the world, like COVID-19, famines, Civil wars but it's a little bit of fun speculating.

 

[Bahrd]

[...] that pretty much says that the big CR3 that set this all off is indeed almost completely correct.

Man, it took me a while to realize you had been referring to the rumor credibility scale and not to the latest Canon's RAW format...

 

[Ozarker]

Dynamic Range and Colour Depth are the HUGE ones. You can have all the frame rates and megapixels in the world, but it doesn't mean anything if the RAW file is dirt compared to Sony and Nikon. Still waiting to see if Dxo Mark puts out some numbers for the 1Dx3. Canon is still not using BSI sensors from what I understand, but I do remember a few months ago them claiming they're made leaps in sensor DR. There are no real examples to measure this yet on the 1Dx3 as far as I know. I would imagine the R5 will measure up somewhere close to, or a bit higher than the 1Dx3 (crossing fingers it's closer to Sony and Nikon).

Note - Even Panasonic is turning to Sony for sensors now. If Canon hasn't gotten their s*** together to be honest I could care less about how many fps this thing shoots. I want quality not quantity.

Glad you could care less. Things would be hopeless if you couldn't care less. Your DR worries are way overblown anyway. There have been endless discussions here about DR. The truth is that all the modern FF cameras by Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji, etc., do a very good job at DR. 3...2...1...

 

[Jack Douglas]

Dynamic Range and Colour Depth are the HUGE ones. You can have all the frame rates and megapixels in the world, but it doesn't mean anything if the RAW file is dirt compared to Sony and Nikon. Still waiting to see if Dxo Mark puts out some numbers for the 1Dx3. Canon is still not using BSI sensors from what I understand, but I do remember a few months ago them claiming they're made leaps in sensor DR. There are no real examples to measure this yet on the 1Dx3 as far as I know. I would imagine the R5 will measure up somewhere close to, or a bit higher than the 1Dx3 (crossing fingers it's closer to Sony and Nikon).

Note - Even Panasonic is turning to Sony for sensors now. If Canon hasn't gotten their s*** together to be honest I could care less about how many fps this thing shoots. I want quality not quantity.

Glad you could care less. Things would be hopeless if you couldn't care less. Your DR worries are way overblown anyway. There have been endless discussions here about DR. The truth is that all the modern FF cameras by Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji, etc., do a very good job at DR. 3...2...1...

y2kunals <-- "raw file is dirt"; honestly he/she didn't even rate a reply or even my 2 cents at this moment. The previous post in response to DR said it all. Thankfully we aren't getting much of this anymore.

However, I can't believe any camera could fully live up to the expectations created with the R5 hype but then again we've been jaded by previous "let-downs" so I'll remain optimistic.

Jack

 

[AdmiralFwiffo]

Canon could keep it under $4k if it's a loss leader. I'm sure the margin on the glass is pretty nice.

 

[unfocused]

Canon could keep it under $4k if it's a loss leader. I'm sure the margin on the glass is pretty nice.

They could. But why should they? Just to be nice?

 

[slclick]

They could. But why should they? Just to be nice?

No, but perhaps to sell more RF glass. Get them in the door....

 

[Grimbald]

I don't think it will be overly expensiv, likely under $4500, or even $3999. The reason for me is quite simple: It has never been easier to switch your camera manufacturer and there is alot of money to make in the long run with RF lenses. Since the world shifts away from mirrors to mirrorless, for many consumers who have had Canon for years, it's easier and more tempting to switch to a competitor (Sony) than ever. Canon, which just released a new mount and lens system will make much more money over the course of 2+ years if the get more people to buy the R5 and then consequently RF glass. If they price the R5 high, they might make more money in this fiscal year but risk to loose customers to Sony, which will then help Sony to make more money in the following years due to lens sales and accessories. Canon has also desigend the RF system with some smart goodies, like the IS - IS connection with the sensor or the additional ring system, something that will challenge Tamron and Sigma and likely give them a more painful disadvantage over "nativ" lenses. This certainly was somethign that Canon bother towards the end of the EF era, where Sigma and Tamron really steped their game up and were hurting their income in the lens section.

Overall, I expect Canon to go all in with the R5, as it will be their attempt to bind people to their system for the next years to come and make money in the long run. I see a lot of thought in their strategy, especially compared to Nikon.

 

[AdmiralFwiffo]

They could. But why should they? Just to be nice?

The same reason anyone sells a loss leader, to bring people into the store. Or in this case, bring people into the Canon system (or to keep them there.)

 

[AEWest]

They could. But why should they? Just to be nice?

To grab market share. In a shrinking market that is ultra important. It is like musical chairs - someone will be left without a chair (ie. exiting the market) and Canon doesn't want it to be them.

 

[deleteme]

Dynamic Range and Colour Depth are the HUGE ones. You can have all the frame rates and megapixels in the world, but it doesn't mean anything if the RAW file is dirt compared to Sony and Nikon. Still waiting to see if Dxo Mark puts out some numbers for the 1Dx3. Canon is still not using BSI sensors from what I understand, but I do remember a few months ago them claiming they're made leaps in sensor DR. There are no real examples to measure this yet on the 1Dx3 as far as I know. I would imagine the R5 will measure up somewhere close to, or a bit higher than the 1Dx3 (crossing fingers it's closer to Sony and Nikon).

Note - Even Panasonic is turning to Sony for sensors now. If Canon hasn't gotten their s*** together to be honest I could care less about how many fps this thing shoots. I want quality not quantity.

Just how much of an improvement are you looking for?
Canon's later sensors have closed the gap to a point of falling short in only the most abusive situations.
I think Canon will pleasantly surprise us with their new sensor/s.
I shoot architecture and have very extreme brightness ranges to work with and the biggest challenge I have is masking more than the ability of the file to hold up.

 

[deleteme]

Canon could keep it under $4k if it's a loss leader. I'm sure the margin on the glass is pretty nice.

I think that their margin is good at $4k but I really have no idea. However, they have a very desirable product that would tempt a lot of early adopters at a premium price with a small reduction coming later.
IMO the camera will be in hot demand for quite some time if it delivers what they are implying.

 

[BillB]

Canon could keep it under $4k if it's a loss leader. I'm sure the margin on the glass is pretty nice.

The rumored R5 specs are pretty impressive for a loss leader, and even $4k is a lot of money for many of us. Maybe the mysterious R6 will turn out to be a lower priced option that competes on price to attract buyers.

 

[SteveC]

The rumored R5 specs are pretty impressive for a loss leader, and even $4k is a lot of money for many of us. Maybe the mysterious R6 will turn out to be a lower priced option that competes on price to attract buyers.

That's pretty much what I'm thinking. It will have lower resolution (fewer megapixels) and likely, a lower frame rate and certainly less video capability (because of the lower resolution, it won't be able to do 8K in any way). It will likely be a lot less expensive too.

I'll be caught between my desire for "economical" and my desire for "resolution," unfortunately. (I really don't need high frame rate and super-high-res video--my videos are very casual.) I doubt any of the upcoming Rs will be 45MP-ish without the stuff that comes with video at those resolutions (I include frame rate in that; it's something you can do if you can do video), so I will have to make a compromise.