Canon will reclaim their full-frame megapixel crown [CR1]

Nov 3, 2014
698
507
FF or ASP-C? All categories and all features? Video? Don't care about it, personally. Ergonomics? Weather sealing? What about lenses? Sony hasn't had anything over 400mm for years and years until very recently. Blanket statements are rarely true. Canon just got into the FF mirrorless market less than a year ago. So, like everything else in comparable businesses... one company leads with certain features for a while, then the other company does for a while, then another company, all leap frogging each other. I've held a Sony mirrorless. That alone put me off. After that, mega pixels, FPS, and the tracking ability didn't matter... for me. Sometimes I have to hold and shoot a camera with the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II for 12+ hours with no breaks no monopod, no tripod. I can tell you right now, ergonomics matter to me. Sony's ergonomics suck. From my personal perspective, Sony is waaaaayyyyyyyy behind.
Plenty to like about Canon and plenty to dislike about Sony but if you can't appreciate the extent to which Sony is driving camera tech forward I don't know what to tell you. Canon is the world's largest camera company with decades of experience and for the most part they have been chasing Sony's tail for the last several years. It's a little sad.

Canon's cameras, like pretty much every camera made in the last decade or so, still produce fine images but the tech gap is widening every day. I understand why that gets on some peoples nerves but it's not Sony's fault that Canon isn't keeping up.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,627
1,171
So is your contention that the DSLRs are not held back or that Canon is holding them back for some other reason?
Best guess is that Canon has either a readout speed issue or a downstream processing speed issue leading to cropped 4k, slower frame rates, and eye AF performance issues relative to the competition. When the 5D4 was released the cropped 4k might have looked like a marketing decision, but in retrospect it was likely a technical one.

While I often debate perceived shortcomings on Canon's part (DR; high ISO noise), it's hard to deny that Canon has some performance issue at the sensor or processor related to reading pixels at a high frame rate. It does not kill them as some pretend. But I certainly hope with their next generation sensors it is resolved.

If the M5/M6 rumors are any indication, it will be.
 
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WideAngle

5D Mark IV
Jul 31, 2019
1
1
Right, my first post here. Been checking and reading a few months, kept my opinions to myself. But by now I'm getting really tired of all of the focus on the RF equipment. I've tested it, worked with it, and it feels like a kids toy. I can't work with it, I won't work with it, I'm not going to switch or invest in any way in RF equipment.

It would be nice if there would be some sign of acknowledgement that EF is not dead, and that there are still people who want developments in that area. My wish list of EF-related equipment is growing every month, but I've completely stopped investing in it as I'm not going to throw money down the drain.
 
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dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,627
1,171
Plenty to like about Canon and plenty to dislike about Sony but if you can't appreciate the extent to which Sony is driving camera tech forward I don't know what to tell you. Canon is the world's largest camera company with decades of experience and for the most part they have been chasing Sony's tail for the last several years. It's a little sad.
Sony has driven things forward in some respects. But a lot of the 'forward drive' in Sony's products has actually been spent chasing Canon's tail along with the tail of every mature DSLR manufacturer. It's easy to look at the A7 series and see four generations of improvement while forgetting that it was the third generation before the AF could compete with SLR AF, as but one example. It's also easy to forget all the sensor imaging problems Sony has had over these generations. Off sensor flare, compressed RAW artifacts, star eaters, striping. And do I dare mention ergonomics and weather sealing?

These things are fresh in my memory because I carefully researched and considered buying every single A7R released. And every time there was a 'show stopper' issue that would have killed it for me even if I otherwise would have gone Sony. In a twist of irony, I finally gave up waiting for Sony to catch up and moved to the 5Ds.

Sony is a competitive force which is ultimately good for everyone. But it's grating to hear over and over again how far ahead they are based on a selected subset of considerations which happen to play to their strengths.
 

Timedog

EOS R
Aug 31, 2018
58
41
Ugh. Too much. Hopefully it'll allow smaller size raw files for the 95% of the time when I don't want that much resolution due to file sizes and processing power. How are small raw sizes made in camera though? Is there loss of quality vs a sensor that has that smaller resolution natively?
 

sdz

EOS RP
Sep 13, 2016
253
193
Pittsburgh, PA
snip

Sony is a competitive force which is ultimately good for everyone. But it's grating to hear over and over again [emphasis added] how far ahead they are based on a selected subset of considerations which happen to play to their strengths.
This. Sony has surged ahead in sensor development. And Canon needs to respond in kind. But, photographers do take great photos using Canon gear. It's mindless boosterism to claim otherwise.
 
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melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
625
410
You know, with all the disparaging of the “megapixel wars”, people seem to forget that those wars, thought of back then as the sharpness wars, began in the very beginning of photography, in the early 19th century.

This is nothing new, and I don’t understand why some seem so upset about it.
 
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Mr Majestyk

EOS RP
Feb 20, 2016
305
162
Australia
If the specs of M5/M6 II, 90D and EOS Rs (say) are correct (at least Rs's sensor) maybe Canon has finally awoken form it's 12 year self-induced coma. It's not a moment too late as they need urgent action to chnage public perception. These are encouraging signs but of course nothing is released yet, so let's wait and see.
 

CanonFanBoy

Real men single speed.
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,223
3,446
Irving, Texas
Plenty to like about Canon and plenty to dislike about Sony but if you can't appreciate the extent to which Sony is driving camera tech forward I don't know what to tell you. Canon is the world's largest camera company with decades of experience and for the most part they have been chasing Sony's tail for the last several years. It's a little sad.

Canon's cameras, like pretty much every camera made in the last decade or so, still produce fine images but the tech gap is widening every day. I understand why that gets on some peoples nerves but it's not Sony's fault that Canon isn't keeping up.
Ummm... I think you misunderstand. This is what grates the nerves and I am gosh darn proud not to have spent money on Sony.: (From Imaging-Resource) BTW: still waiting on DPAF from Sony. Not really. Ergonomics on the Sony FF mirrorless line are just as bad as those on my M43 Olympus. The difference? My fingers are not crammed into the "slot" on the Olympus. One would think Sony could at least fix this problem, but no. 4th generation, s.o.s. For people who spend hours holding a camera by the grip with a big heavy lens, ergonomics are king. On a typical model boot camp weekend we are shooting 6-8 individual models each day with each having 3 different looks (Different clothing from designers). Might as well be 18-24 models each photographer. The day begins at 7am and doesn't end until sundown. Very fast paced and no breaks. Spare me the tech talk. Also, no top LCD. The two times my photos have been published, the editors didn't care what I used. They just liked the results. My post focused on ergonomics. That is a technology Sony doesn't seem to know anything about. Use what works for you. Does not bother me one bit. Sony doesn't work for me no matter what they cram in that deck of cards.
 

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venusFivePhotoStudio

Venus Five Photo Studio
Right, my first post here. Been checking and reading a few months, kept my opinions to myself. But by now I'm getting really tired of all of the focus on the RF equipment. I've tested it, worked with it, and it feels like a kids toy. I can't work with it, I won't work with it, I'm not going to switch or invest in any way in RF equipment.

It would be nice if there would be some sign of acknowledgement that EF is not dead, and that there are still people who want developments in that area. My wish list of EF-related equipment is growing every month, but I've completely stopped investing in it as I'm not going to throw money down the drain.
Me, too I had the same feeling with the R. But I hope for a professional RF camera.
 
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Stereodude

EOS 90D
Jul 8, 2019
149
130
Why is product differentiation a difficult concept to grasp? Does a Mustang have the same features as an F150?
It's not hard to grasp. It's how they do it that draws ire. Did Ford remove the back seat from the Mustang to protect sedan sales? How about keeping the power down on the F150 so that people would have to buy a Mustang if they want to go fast?

I swear some of you would support Canon even if they made it so their L lenses wouldn't work on their non-pro cameras models saying it's simply a product differentiation thing and the people complaining about such a limitation don't get it.

Best guess is that Canon has either a readout speed issue or a downstream processing speed issue leading to cropped 4k, slower frame rates, and eye AF performance issues relative to the competition. When the 5D4 was released the cropped 4k might have looked like a marketing decision, but in retrospect it was likely a technical one.
...
None of which for example explains why p24 video has vanished from the new cameras. They clearly removed it for a non-technical reason.

It sure seems like Canon tries to remove as much as they think they can get away with from every model to create artificial market segmentation at each price point. Whereas it seems like Nikon and Sony try to put as much as possible into each models for their price point regardless if one of their lower end models might at least temporarily surpass the capability of an older higher end model.


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For example, Canon would never put the sort of AF features the new RX100 VII has (whether it needs them or not). They would never put features or tech borrowed directly from their top end cameras in a P&S. Heck Canon won't even put their top end metering or AF in a 2nd tier camera.
 
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Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,927
Canada
Right, my first post here. Been checking and reading a few months, kept my opinions to myself. But by now I'm getting really tired of all of the focus on the RF equipment. I've tested it, worked with it, and it feels like a kids toy. I can't work with it, I won't work with it, I'm not going to switch or invest in any way in RF equipment.

It would be nice if there would be some sign of acknowledgement that EF is not dead, and that there are still people who want developments in that area. My wish list of EF-related equipment is growing every month, but I've completely stopped investing in it as I'm not going to throw money down the drain.
Welcome to the Forum!

I would also like to see something new happen with EF.....

As to the RF mount, so far we have seen two low end FF cameras. This is not enough to pas judgement on the system yet. Personally, I think that when we start seeing higher end units that they will be of similar size to their EF equivalents because they are going to need bigger batteries and they are going to need space for multiple processors and heat dissipation. Even the top end Oly has had to forego the tiny form factor because of this.
 

Stereodude

EOS 90D
Jul 8, 2019
149
130
Right, my first post here. Been checking and reading a few months, kept my opinions to myself. But by now I'm getting really tired of all of the focus on the RF equipment. I've tested it, worked with it, and it feels like a kids toy. I can't work with it, I won't work with it, I'm not going to switch or invest in any way in RF equipment.

It would be nice if there would be some sign of acknowledgement that EF is not dead, and that there are still people who want developments in that area. My wish list of EF-related equipment is growing every month, but I've completely stopped investing in it as I'm not going to throw money down the drain.
There is not such an acknowledgement. There's one to the opposite of what you want. It's written pretty clearly in their Q2 financial guidance that they're betting the future on mirrorless and that the DSLR market is contracting rapidly and will continue to do so. So while others are making fun of Sony for taking several generations to get their MILC cameras competitive with DSLRs from Canon or Nikon they seem to be ignoring that Canon isn't exactly setting the standard in MILC cameras and is going to be playing catch-up.
 
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unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
5,729
2,724
67
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
...It would be nice if there would be some sign of acknowledgement that EF is not dead, and that there are still people who want developments in that area. My wish list of EF-related equipment is growing every month, but I've completely stopped investing in it as I'm not going to throw money down the drain.
I believe Canon executives have stated in public interviews that EF is not dead and that RF is just another option (paraphrasing)