Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]

[RS2021]

I had an interresting talk with five Japanese tourists at the winners ceremony.
They had professional Nikon and Canon cameras and told me that Nikon will release a top Crop Camera in spring this year and update their Nikon 100-400 pedant (80-400 or so). Canon...[redact] will be soon in financial problems

Bwahahahah! So I take it this rumor is "JT3?"

do you guys think the new 100-400 will again be with this push zoom?

I got the information that there will be an rotating zoom. But much higher priced than the 100-400 L (Rumors from Japanese tourists that are photographic enthusiasts)

I don't know about your Japanese tourists, but I asked the homeless guy in front of the City Hall, and he was fairly certain it will be remote-controlled accordion design and will come with a dedicated Organ-Grinder monkey.

 

[J.R.]

I don't have a 7D. But what I've heard and read from those who have both it and a 5DIII, even using the same lenses for little birdies when they're distance-limited with both bodies, the 5DIII still beats the 7D.

What you have heard and read is absolutely correct. The 5D3 puts the 7D to shame ... 1.6 crop factor notwithstanding!

Not correct.
Same lens, same distance, decent light, and a large print - the 7D print will be better.

That would be a fair assessment if the AF demands were not too stringent.

 

[J.R.]

It will, I believe, be for less than the 6D.

Not necessarily, at least not the starting price. Canon's strategy is to use a ridiculously high release price, then wait until all early adopters suckers paid up, then lower the price, wait some again and repeat until the camera body is phased out. And there will be early 7d2 adopters because of the crop factor, €1000 more or less doesn't exactly matter for many people who are able to afford Canon tele primes.

I guess they can also afford the 1DX and wouldn't care about the latest crop cam

 

[ahsanford]

Many interesting comments, largely correct from despondent APS-C devotees. Some thoughts on this announcement:

• For those arguing the 7D2 can't have a higher price than the 6D, I'd strongly reconsider that position:
  
  • First, by the time the 7D2 will come to market (if this report is accurate) the 6D may drop under $2k.
    
    
    
  • Second, the 7D and proposed 7D2 is not a 'nice' or mid-level camera. It is a top of the line feature set for the smaller sensor. The idea that a smaller sensor makes it a second class citizen is absurd -- IQ / DOF impact / noise are very important but they are not everything. That smaller sensor is not solely a takeaway -- it buys you range and burst rate. Pro sports shooters and birders love both of those things. Also, serious amateurs / enthusiasts can use the crop range multiplier to get into long glass without having to take out a loan; my friend has the money for a 5D3 but only cares about crop length as it keeps him in the $1k-2k lens range and not in the $6k-10k lens range. For that reason APS-C is, and will remain, financially vital -- even after FF sensors come down in price.
    
    
    
  • Third, a rhetorical argument to be fair, but aren't premiums and price points king these days? Hell, a high end Ford can cost more than an entry level Audi, right?
    
    
    
  • As such, a state of the art 7D2 coming out for less than a +1 year old 6D would boggle my mind.
    
    
    
• From an EF lens perspective, only 4 lenses is disappointing:
  
  • 
    One of them is 100% likely to be the (non-L) 50mm IS to replace the venerable 50mm F/1.4. Whether the new one will still offer F/1.4 or more likely F/1. 8 or F/2.0 remains to be seen, but it will 100% likely have IS. This is assured because the 50 F/1.4 (along with the stellar 85mm F/1.8 ) is next in line after the 24 IS, 28 IS and 35 IS lenses to get updated. The 50 IS will be a massive upgrade over the 20+ year old 50 F/1.4, I have no doubt. As such, I'm looking forward to it.
    
    • For those doubting how much nicer the new 50 IS will be over the 50 F/1.4, think again. It will have internal focusing, near-L build quality and far better IQ and focusing. I have said and will continue to say that my 28 IS punches it weight against L lenses brilliantly.
    
    
  • Only four is disappointing to me in that I am eager to see new L primes in these same wide/standard lengths that hopefully have IS. But only 4 new lenses would say that it's not happening this year. If I had to guess, 2 of the four will be the aforementioned non-L 50 and 85, and there has been a fair amount of info to suggest the others would likely be an ultrawide zoom (the mythical 14-24) and something longer like the 100-400 or (finally) the 200-400/1.4x.
    
    
  • One possible theory for so few lenses? All of their lens designers and manufacturing capacity are likely committed to building up the EOS-M lens portfolio. Roll your eyes all you want, but that mount is here and it needs glass to be successful. I'd be stunned if there wasn't a 55-250-like option and a macro lens for EOS-M in the next 12-18 months. There's even value for the 'serious tourists' to go after an EOS-M variant of the EF-S 10-22. Sure, the EOS-M has an adapter, but that was aimed at us -- the serious users who want a small second body. But if you are a new camera owner, why take a camera the size of a deck of cards and bolt thick adapters and thicker (and more expensive) EF lenses to it? EOS-M needs its own glass offerings, and quickly if Canon is to catch up in mirrorless.
    
    
    
  
  
• It continues to shock me that Canon is top of the line for lenses, AF, and ergonomics (in my opinion), yet it continues to have poor sensors compared to the competition. I don't put too much faith in those DXO scores, but the dynamic range data out there, particularly in low ISO, gives compelling reason that Sony/Nikon sensors are a solid step ahead of Canon's. Heck, in some of these tests we're seeing lower price point sensors beat the Canon counterparts (D600 trumping the 5D3, for instance).
  

As always, this is fun to chat about. None of this is changing my affiliation for a host of reasons, btw. On aggregate, as many have said, I'm using the right system.

- A

 

[xps]

It will, I believe, be for less than the 6D.

Not necessarily, at least not the starting price. Canon's strategy is to use a ridiculously high release price, then wait until all early adopters suckers paid up, then lower the price, wait some again and repeat until the camera body is phased out. And there will be early 7d2 adopters because of the crop factor, €1000 more or less doesn't exactly matter for many people who are able to afford Canon tele primes.

+1

 

[EOBeav]

What would be the improvement in a new 50 f/1.4 have over the old one?

Build quality, plain and simple. Actually, all they'd have to do is make that inside barrel out of something a little more solid than plastic, and the problem would be solved.

 

[xps]

I had an interresting talk with five Japanese tourists at the winners ceremony.
They had professional Nikon and Canon cameras and told me that Nikon will release a top Crop Camera in spring this year and update their Nikon 100-400 pedant (80-400 or so). Canon...[redact] will be soon in financial problems

Bwahahahah! So I take it this rumor is "JT3?"

do you guys think the new 100-400 will again be with this push zoom?

I got the information that there will be an rotating zoom. But much higher priced than the 100-400 L (Rumors from Japanese tourists that are photographic enthusiasts)

I don't know about your Japanese tourists, but I asked the homeless guy in front of the City Hall, and he was fairly certain it will be remote-controlled accordion design and will come with a dedicated Organ-Grinder monkey.

:

 

[bdunbar79]

I don't have a 7D. But what I've heard and read from those who have both it and a 5DIII, even using the same lenses for little birdies when they're distance-limited with both bodies, the 5DIII still beats the 7D.

What you have heard and read is absolutely correct. The 5D3 puts the 7D to shame ... 1.6 crop factor notwithstanding!

Not correct.
Same lens, same distance, decent light, and a large print - the 7D print will be better.

That may be true for the 5D3/7D, but is not true with the 1DX/7D.

 

[J.R.]

I don't have a 7D. But what I've heard and read from those who have both it and a 5DIII, even using the same lenses for little birdies when they're distance-limited with both bodies, the 5DIII still beats the 7D.

What you have heard and read is absolutely correct. The 5D3 puts the 7D to shame ... 1.6 crop factor notwithstanding!

Not correct.
Same lens, same distance, decent light, and a large print - the 7D print will be better.

That would be a fair assessment if the AF demands were not too stringent.

Nice shot ... but the point I'm trying to make is that the AF of the 5D3 is way much better than the 7D and will result in more keepers.

 

[ahsanford]

From J.R.: Nice shot ... but the point I'm trying to make is that the AF of the 5D3 is way much better than the 7D and will result in more keepers..

Agree, but is there any doubt that the 7D2 will be given the 1DX / 5D3's awesome AF system? Not for me. I think it's a lock.

I'm not saying the 7D2 is getting two DIGIC chips or the 1DX's dedicated metering system, but I think the AF will be top of the line. It's an action camera, so it needs great AF and they happen to have one ready to go. Further, it will commonize the user experience for shooters who bounce between FF and APS-C bodies.

- A

 

[J.R.]

Agree, but is there any doubt that the 7D2 will be given the 1DX / 5D3's awesome AF system? Not for me. I think it's a lock.

Considering Canon crippled the 6D to only 11 AF points with only 1 Xtype point, I don't think it is a given. As I mentioned in my earlier posts ... something somewhere will surely be missing.

1DX AF system in the 7D2 ... I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[kia]

hi . so what happened to that high megapixel ff camera that was going to be anounced ??

 

[Bob Howland]

I don't have a 7D. But what I've heard and read from those who have both it and a 5DIII, even using the same lenses for little birdies when they're distance-limited with both bodies, the 5DIII still beats the 7D.

What you have heard and read is absolutely correct. The 5D3 puts the 7D to shame ... 1.6 crop factor notwithstanding!

Not correct.
Same lens, same distance, decent light, and a large print - the 7D print will be better.

That would be a fair assessment if the AF demands were not too stringent.

The AF demands would have to be very stringent indeed. I've yet to find a situation where my 5D3 would focus but my 7D wouldn't, at least with a "reasonable" amount of light. Mostly I use the 7D as a 1.6X teleconverter when shooting outdoor sports, a role for which it is admirably suited. I think that 7D images are better than cropped images from a 5D3 or using a teleconverter and a 5D3, except maybe with my 300 f/2.8. I have noticed that 7D images have more contrast and less dynamic range than 5D3 images.

I'm waiting for the Canon M1, the professional model in the M series. With no mirror to move, 24FPS might be possible.

 

[Marsu42]

Considering Canon crippled the 6D to only 11 AF points with only 1 Xtype point

I just would like to point out that like the 5d2, the 6d has *no* real cross af point at all @f2.8, but if the horizontal-only f2.8 line cannot lock falls back to the less precise f5.6 overlay x-point. Thanks, Canon.

 

[J.R.]

The AF demands would have to be very stringent indeed. I've yet to find a situation where my 5D3 would focus but my 7D wouldn't, at least with a "reasonable" amount of light.

If you do not find the AF of the 5D3 vastly different then maybe ... well, what can I say :-\

My mileage with the 5D3 is much better as compared to the 7D ... I don't print large so I don't really need the extra MP the 7D has to offer.

 

[ahsanford]

Considering Canon crippled the 6D to only 11 AF points with only 1 Xtype point

I just would like to point out that like the 5d2, the 6d has *no* real cross af point at all @f2.8, but if the horizontal-only f2.8 line cannot lock falls back to the less precise f5.6 overlay x-point. Thanks, Canon.

Sorry to go off-topic, but to speak to the prospects of the 7D2's AF system, consider from the FF world:

1DX: State of the art 61/41 AF system, state of the art metering with dedicated processor, fastest burst
5D3: State of the art 61/41 AF system*, but something like the current 7D's metering**, good burst
6D: Nerfed AF system (limited options), but something like the current 7D's metering**, slowest burst

* Yes, I realize that this royally p----- off 1D users accustomed to exclusive tech. As a 5D3 owner, I absolutely love this call.

** I don't study metering as often, but the specs seemed numerically similar if not identical from what I've (admittedly briefly) read.

So wouldn't it be logical for the following arrangement?

7D2: State of the art 61/41 AF system, but something like the current 7D's metering, fastest burst
70D: Ok AF system (decent but not 1DX/5D3), but something like the current 7D's metering, good burst
700D: Nerfed AF system (limited options), ??? for metering and slowest burst
XXXXD: Worst of everything, might spontaneously explode from users having even modest burst rate hopes

I fully understand why the 6D was nerfed. Great AF takes hardware (and therefore cost) to pull off, and they wanted (a) to get the 6D cost down and (b) protect the 5D3 as the all-around popular/mainstream FF choice. Mission accomplished on both fronts, but the D600 has far more AF points (albeit all within a hair of center) to sell against the 6D as a result.

But the 7D2 (a) will not be cheap (see my post on Page 5) and (b) is not in any way competing with the 5D3 unless you are the most discriminating pixel peeper who doesn't mind teleconverters or madly expensive long glass.

So give the damn 7D2 the AF system it ought to have -- the best one!

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Hypothetically, if a spectacular -- I mean game-changingly better -- APS-C body were offered... That with glass of length X that took shots as well as a great FF camera did with glass of length 1.6X...

Wouldn't that be a camera worth $3k? Hell, $4K?! As nuts as that sounds, think of the money saved on buying X length glass instead of 1.6X length.

Just saying. :

- A

 

[bdunbar79]

I'm telling you guys, you're gonna want that cowbell on the 7D Mark II.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

It would be nice to have an update on the 50mm f/1.4 - at least I am curious about it.

What would be the improvement in a new 50 f/1.4 have over the old one?
As an amateur the current lens works pretty well for me. Took a picture just yesterday. Very low light. Only source was a flatscreen. No NR applied.

1. AF that doesn't break when you look at it
2. AF that is not based-upon mid-1980s AF precision and has full ring USM speed

 

[J.R.]

I don't have a 5Diii but I've been thinking about it. Is the AF for the Group C lenses really that much better than the 7Ds? It seems like they're cross type, if I'm reading the manual right. As far as 61 vs 19 points are concerned, I'm usually using spot focus in the center (or maybe spot with af point expansion) for anything in motion.

Yes it is better.

Group C lenses have 41 x-type AF points against the 19 of the 7D. The 19 AF points of the 7D cover roughly the same area of the frame as the 5D3 but the extra AF points of the 5D3 result in better AF performance overall when using the AF expansion mode and even otherwise.