Did Canon Leak the EF 11-24mm f/4L?

[ahsanford]

No it doesn't, not in the age of CAD, Sigma have said they can make a lens from concept meeting to production lens in between six months to a year. Canon have much more resources and probably tighter tolerances so maybe a bit longer, but certainly not years and years.

Sure, but there's more to it than the CAD and production cycle. Canon has got to be making a larger investment and building more lenses than Sigma. With a larger investment, they likely would vet the design with a larger pool of test users, and possibly with more iterations of test use and revision of the design.

I am not stating one company is better at this than the other, but Canon has more exposure to lose money/customers with a poor product, so they might take a little longer to dial something in than a company hoping to snatch business while Canon is busy being 'less responsive'.

Canon's in a very weird market where it's a high tech field without the annual crushing pressure to roll out new stuff like with (say) laptops, cell phones, tablets, etc. It seems like they deliberately don't want to rush EF glass or higher-end body designs to market.

Interesting sidebar question: what's the last EF lens Canon rolled out that didn't deliver the goods? I am not referring to lenses that were unreasonably priced -- I am asking: what's the last time Canon put out an EF lens that wasn't clearly better than its predecessor or had serious quality issues?

That said, Sigma churning out better lenses is terrific for us.

- A

 

[privatebydesign]

Interesting sidebar question: what's the last EF lens Canon rolled out that didn't deliver the goods? I am not referring to lenses that were unreasonably priced -- I am asking: what's the last time Canon put out an EF lens that wasn't clearly better than its predecessor or had serious quality issues?

- A

Many might say the 24-70 f4 L is a disappointment, particularly for those that bought into it for the macro capabilities. The 50 f1.2 L also springs to mind

 

[ahsanford]

Interesting sidebar question: what's the last EF lens Canon rolled out that didn't deliver the goods? I am not referring to lenses that were unreasonably priced -- I am asking: what's the last time Canon put out an EF lens that wasn't clearly better than its predecessor or had serious quality issues?

- A

Many might say the 24-70 f4 L is a disappointment, particularly for those that bought into it for the macro capabilities. The 50 f1.2 L also springs to mind

Fair. The 50 f/1.2L is a love it or hate it lens. I've only rented it and never owned one, so I don't know if this love/hate is due to design or folks having unreasonable expectations.

But I must disagree on the 24-70 F/4L IS. It is a stellar lens for me. Lighter and sharper than the 24-105 and 24-70 I in a nice compact design. That's a perfect travel/hiking lens.

Unless I've missed some negative press on it's macro performance, the principal macro issue people have had was the limited working distance, which was mathematical necessity given this relatively limited focal length for a macro. But that was clearly published before it was released, wasn't it? That said, the AF works just fine at macro ranges and I find the macro to be a great function in a pinch (and it often lets me leave the macro at home for casual shooting), but it will never replace my 100L for dedicated macro work.

IMHO, the big beef(s) with the 24-70 F/4L IS were all announcement/launch related snafus that had little to do with how it actually performed:

• A $1,499 price at launch
• A belief that the 24-105L was going to be obsoleted by it (i.e. for something with less reach and a higher price.)
• That whole typo of Canon writing '4' on the lens when eeeeeeeeveryone wanted it to be '2.8' ;D

Since that time, the price has been corrected (I got mine around $1,000) and the performance has been very good, I thought.

- A

 

[privatebydesign]

But I must disagree on the 24-70 F/4L IS. It is a stellar lens for me. Lighter and sharper than the 24-105 and 24-70 I in a nice compact design. That's a perfect travel/hiking lens.

Unless I've missed some negative press on it's macro performance.......

It seems you have

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=23475.msg461615#msg461615

The comments below it agree and give even more perspective too.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Have to say I'm happy with my 24-70 F4 and it's a handy holiday macro, not bad at all. Very glad I got it with the 6D.

Such comments always bring to mind the folks that cursed the 6D becasue it HAD WiFi and GPS. Then they curse the 7D2 because it DOESN'T have WiFi. Makes me chuckle.

Jack

 

[ahsanford]

You got me there. Excellent point on the 24-70 f/4L IS focus shift. That really wound some folks up.

It doesn't affect how/what I shoot with it, but I could see how that would not meet some folks' expectations.

- A

 

[sagittariansrock]

Thanks, privatebydesign. Is that "11mm equivalent" two stitched frames from a TS-E 17?

Hi Nancy,

Yes it is from two shift stitched 17mm shots, they equate very well to an 11mm fov. But like I keep saying, I see the big issue is going to be projection distortion on the edges, when I do these shift stitches I almost always end up remapping them in PS by doing a 'spherical distortion' in the horizontal plane only, it brings the edges in progressively and actually works quite well.

If you are interested I'll post an example.

I'm interested, if you can illustrate it that'll be great!
Thanks in advance.

 

[privatebydesign]

Thanks, privatebydesign. Is that "11mm equivalent" two stitched frames from a TS-E 17?

Hi Nancy,

Yes it is from two shift stitched 17mm shots, they equate very well to an 11mm fov. But like I keep saying, I see the big issue is going to be projection distortion on the edges, when I do these shift stitches I almost always end up remapping them in PS by doing a 'spherical distortion' in the horizontal plane only, it brings the edges in progressively and actually works quite well.

If you are interested I'll post an example.

I'm interested, if you can illustrate it that'll be great!
Thanks in advance.

Hi there Sagitariansrock

First image is two 17 mm TS-E images shift stitched, this gives the fov of an 11mm rectilinear lens.

Second image is a 100% crop from the extreme edge of the above image. The boat is badly elongated by projection distortion, as are the spherical buoys.

Third image is the top image after PS 'spherical distortion' with horizontal only ticked has been carried out.

Fourth image is the 100% crop of the same boat.

You can see how distorted the boat is in the first image, it isn't a lens aberration, it is the projection distortion you get when you try to bend that fov into the sensor area, however the PS spherical distortion trick sorts it out well.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hjalmarg1]

YES ... come on Canon ... announce it! ;D

Yeap, just announce it and many people will start selling 16-35mm lenses and placing orders for this UWA

 

[sagittariansrock]

Thanks, privatebydesign. Is that "11mm equivalent" two stitched frames from a TS-E 17?

Hi Nancy,

Yes it is from two shift stitched 17mm shots, they equate very well to an 11mm fov. But like I keep saying, I see the big issue is going to be projection distortion on the edges, when I do these shift stitches I almost always end up remapping them in PS by doing a 'spherical distortion' in the horizontal plane only, it brings the edges in progressively and actually works quite well.

If you are interested I'll post an example.

I'm interested, if you can illustrate it that'll be great!
Thanks in advance.

Hi there Sagitariansrock

First image is two 17 mm TS-E images shift stitched, this gives the fov of an 11mm rectilinear lens.

Second image is a 100% crop from the extreme edge of the above image. The boat is badly elongated by projection distortion, as are the spherical buoys.

Third image is the top image after PS 'spherical distortion' with horizontal only ticked has been carried out.

Fourth image is the 100% crop of the same boat.

You can see how distorted the boat is in the first image, it isn't a lens aberration, it is the projection distortion you get when you try to bend that fov into the sensor area, however the PS spherical distortion trick sorts it out well.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, great tip!
I shall have to try this out now.

 

[AvTvM]

I call this a fake. Some reasons:

1. No space between the "EF" and the "11-24" in the screenshot. This is inconsistent with the other lenses on that page.
2. A typo in "Vollformat", in the screenshot there is just one "l" which is wrong.
3. I am a native german speaker. The text sounds somewhat fishy to me, not in the way Canon would say it.
4. Everybody can edit a web page and make a screenshot of it.

I take it for real. It looks exactly like one of the many glitches that are taking place lately on the German versions of Canon websites lately. There may be some low-ranking assistant ["Azubi" ;D] at work ... adding pics and typing in text for the website ... inadvertently "hit the wrong key" ... and poof ... it went online. It then took some time until he/she realized the mistake and took it offline again. Long enough for somebody to catch it and save the screenshot.

I am german native speaker too and the text does not appear to be "un-Canon like" to me. If you look at the text for the fishzoom 8-15 on the same page it includes the word "Vollformat" as well (spelled correctly, after it was proofread ;D) and the 14/2.8 desription on the same page left lower corner includes some marketing-blather "surpasses the human eye" ["übertrifft das menschliche Auge"] ;D ...
so "unrivalled performance" ["konkurrenzlose Leistung"] may well have been texted by the same "story-teller".

 

[lo lite]

I call this a fake. Some reasons:

1. No space between the "EF" and the "11-24" in the screenshot. This is inconsistent with the other lenses on that page.
2. A typo in "Vollformat", in the screenshot there is just one "l" which is wrong.
3. I am a native german speaker. The text sounds somewhat fishy to me, not in the way Canon would say it.
4. Everybody can edit a web page and make a screenshot of it.

In fairness, the (sort of) smoking gun that would tip the needle from "it's a rumor" to "I think this is happening" would be a live Canon URL that we can look up. That conveniently doesn't exist anymore, does it?

- A

Yeah, there's no URL in the "screenshot". Another hint. And I was unable to get to a page that looks like the one in the "screenshot" when browsing http://www.canon.de/

 

[lo lite]

I call this a fake. Some reasons:

1. No space between the "EF" and the "11-24" in the screenshot. This is inconsistent with the other lenses on that page.
2. A typo in "Vollformat", in the screenshot there is just one "l" which is wrong.
3. I am a native german speaker. The text sounds somewhat fishy to me, not in the way Canon would say it.
4. Everybody can edit a web page and make a screenshot of it.

I take it for real. It looks exactly like onhe of the many glitches that are taking place lately on the German versions of Canon websites lately. There may be some low-ranking assistant ["Azubi" ;D] at work ... adding pics and typing in text for the website ... inadvertently "hit the wrong key" ... and poof ... it went online. It then took some time until he/she realized the mistake and took it offline again. Long enough for somebody to catch it and save the screenshot.

I am german native speaker too and the text does not appear to be "un-Canon like" to me. If you look at the text for the fishzoom 8-15 on the same page it includes the word "Vollformat" as well (spelled correctly, after it was proofread ;D) and the 14/2.8 desription on the same page left lower corner includes some marketing-blather "surpasses the human eye" ["übertrifft das menschliche Auge"] ;D ...
so "unrivalled performance" ["konkurrenzlose Leistung"] may well have been texted by the same "story-teller".

Your view of things where "Azubis" accidentally publish such things is far from the reality how such corporate websites work. Usually there's an Enterprise-CMS like CQ5, Magnolia, CoreMedia or InterRed in the back with a multi-stage workflow to avoid that anything gets published by accidence. I know this since I was involved as a consultant in setting up such CMSes for various major companies in Germany.

 

[Lee Jay]

I call this a fake. Some reasons:

1. No space between the "EF" and the "11-24" in the screenshot. This is inconsistent with the other lenses on that page.
2. A typo in "Vollformat", in the screenshot there is just one "l" which is wrong.
3. I am a native german speaker. The text sounds somewhat fishy to me, not in the way Canon would say it.
4. Everybody can edit a web page and make a screenshot of it.

In fairness, the (sort of) smoking gun that would tip the needle from "it's a rumor" to "I think this is happening" would be a live Canon URL that we can look up. That conveniently doesn't exist anymore, does it?

- A

Yeah, there's no URL in the "screenshot". Another hint. And I was unable to get to a page that looks like the one in the "screenshot" when browsing http://www.canon.de/

Why not try again on the Canon CPN site instead, as it said in the post?

 

[AvTvM]

Your view of things where "Azubis" accidentally publish such things is far from the reality how such corporate websites work. Usually there's an Enterprise-CMS like CQ5, Magnolia, CoreMedia or InterRed in the back with a multi-stage workflow to avoid that anything gets published by accidence. I know this since I was involved as a consultant in setting up such CMSes for various major companies in Germany.

yes, "multi-stage" - definitely. And most of the time it works as planned. But you know ... mistakes of all sorts and kinds also happen.

Like the Euro 2,499 MSRP in the Canon Germany press release on their website ... quietly changed later on to € 2,199 ... certainly also just a mistake by some assistant to a junior assistant brand manager who typed in a wrong launch price and hit the "release to internet" button.

Or the fact that Canon winter cashback forms on Canon across many (all) EU countries have the respective country of buyer's residence "locked in/hardcoded", so residents of other EU counties cannot register their out-of-country purchases for cashback. I had to personally make Canon Germany change that ...

 

[Mitch.Conner]

Maybe because Canon can't get around Nikon's patent to produce a competitive 14-24. Nikon's 14-24 decreased the demand for its own 14 f/2.8.

Very unlikely IMO.

Then why hasn't Canon done so, IYO?

I wasn't trying to say that I know why - just that I don't think that Canon is unable to get around Nikon's patent(s) related to their 14-24 f/2.8.

I didn't mean to quote the other reason you cited.