EOS 5D Mark III Replacement Talk [CR2]

[Loswr]

Sony has shown what is possible with new sensor technology whilst Canon hasn't updated theirs in many years and so on. That then leads to people defending Canon doing little or nothing in various areas whilst it leaves others exasperated.

Canon as shown what is possible with lens and optical technology, while Sony has done little or nothing in that area. Some people seem to think bare silicon sensors take pictures…

With the metabones adapters, I can put almost any lens on the Sony A7 series. Why should I limit myself to Sony's lenses?

But... but... but... system! system! system!

Yup, by going down the Sony mirrorless path the options for what a working "system" can be are much larger than with Canon.

If by "working system" you mean massively compromised with severe loss of functionality then yes, you might have a point.

A stopped clock "works" twice a day. Maybe that was his point.

 

[tcmatthews]

If you are expecting auto focus with Canon Lens on a Sony you are missing the point. Many lens perform about as good as the EOS M. And we all know what people say about that. I still prefer using old converted manual lens on my Nex6 over Canon EF lens.

With any system, be it Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, or whatever... the native lenses will AF faster than any third party or adapted lenses.

That is the point apparently you half get it. But for most of my general photography I have found I do not need auto focus at all if I have focus aids.

My Nex6 and native E mount 50mm it will go to big rectangle auto focus in indoor light. So it is also a Manual focus only moment. I have found that is not really a problem giving peeking and other focus aides. I also found it does not really do f stops faster than 2.8 very well. In that regard the EOS M is more accurate when it eventual gets to auto focus. In the two years I have owned the Nex6 most pictures taken with it were using FD Lenses and an old M42 lens. I only bought the Metabones adapter to fill in the holes in the Lens lineup until native lenses were available.

For a year the only reason to use my 60D was ML. Sense I bought my 6D I have been very happy with it. The 6D is a very good low light camera. If a high MP 5Ds is released for around the MSRP of the 5dIII it will be a very hard decision. I will still want a Sony A7 something to put the old lens to use because I enjoy that. But it will not have to be high MP if Canon releases a reasonably priced high MP camera. I can only imagine what a 50 mp camera can do for wildlife photography.

Not all of the Sony native E mount lens I am interested in even have auto focus. Zeiss Loxia 2/35 anybody.

Who cares? You're in the minority. MOST people use AF all the time.

That is kinda the point. If you want auto focus with Canon lens on a Sony camera you will be disappointed. If you need and use Canons fast auto focus and want to use Canon lens on a Sony camera you will be double disappointed. Forget sports, forget birds in flight. Forget Candide of small children. Auto focus with Canon lenses is just two slow. You can out focus by hand with USM Canon lens. It is more enjoyable to focus lens made for manual focus.

If you are not willing to accept the limitations of an A7 or other Sony E mount camera dont buy one. If you want auto focus buy native lenses or convert Sony A mount lenses.

If you are looking to convert lens you are really saying who needs auto focus.

 

[Loswr]

If you want auto focus with Canon lens on a Sony camera you will be disappointed.

Blasphemy! You profane the Holy Exmor, which by virtue of its omnipotence can do everything, and by definition everything includes autofocus. Sayeth Exmor, "Thou shalt have no other cameras before me."



Hey Don, do I need a sarcasm tag here, too?

 

[privatebydesign]

Sony has shown what is possible with new sensor technology whilst Canon hasn't updated theirs in many years and so on. That then leads to people defending Canon doing little or nothing in various areas whilst it leaves others exasperated.

Canon as shown what is possible with lens and optical technology, while Sony has done little or nothing in that area. Some people seem to think bare silicon sensors take pictures…

With the metabones adapters, I can put almost any lens on the Sony A7 series. Why should I limit myself to Sony's lenses?

But... but... but... system! system! system!

Yup, by going down the Sony mirrorless path the options for what a working "system" can be are much larger than with Canon.

If by "working system" you mean massively compromised with severe loss of functionality then yes, you might have a point.

Which pieces of functionality will be compromised?

You obviously haven't practiced what you preach, go use a Sony with a Metabones and try out the AF.

 

[Don Haines]

If you want auto focus with Canon lens on a Sony camera you will be disappointed.

Blasphemy! You profane the Holy Exmor, which by virtue of its omnipotence can do everything, and by definition everything includes autofocus. Sayeth Exmor, "Thou shalt have no other cameras before me."



Hey Don, do I need a sarcasm tag here, too?

probably.... but while all this was going on I found out that you can walk around for 5 hours at -13C with a 7D2 and that it will still work. I hope that any future Canon upgrades will also handle the cold as well...

and may I say that 10FPS and a kick-ass AF system are essential when trying to get pictures of small birds in flight.

 

[sanj]

Tend to agree with the comment that a new 5D split into one with, and one without an AA would be very unCanon- like. Canon tend to decide what's good for us (them) and then supply that. And as the effects of a good AA filter can all but be cancelled out in post then it's probably better on balance to have one.

Still think we are going to see an interchaneable Finder. It's been pointed out, correctly, that this type of high end feature has only been seen on the highest model - the 1 series in the past, but in those days we didn't have an upgraded 5 series. I would suggest that the 5DIII was very much the 1Ds IV. Despite the 'crippling' of the 5DII with the 20D/5D AF system, pros still chose this much cheaper camera instead of the 1Ds III on the whole ( which rather says something about the importance these sort of photographers place on AF does it not ?), and in the end Canon seemed to adopt the "if you can't beat them join them" approach and up graded the 5 series, and did so with only a relatively small price increase. So I think that it is possible we will see this feature in a 5DIV, probably the 's' version if that has a 52 mp DPAF sensor, so good focus can be achieved with the interchangeable EVF.

My wording is ironic, yours is sarcastic (realistic)

 

[Orangutan]

<Outside of Sports, fast moving wildlife, candid shots, and anything moving auto focus is over rated.>

So basically, sports, weddings, wildlife, candid shots. OTHER THAN THAT, AF is over-rated.

LOL.

Perhaps I should have put a sarcasm tag in there so people could get the inside joke. Most of my photography involve slow to non moving subjects.

And there's no problem at all with that. Be aware, however, that you're in the distinct minority who can benefit from lens adapters. Because of that, you should not expect any camera/lens maker to cater to your needs, pace Zeiss.

 

[tcmatthews]

Sony has shown what is possible with new sensor technology whilst Canon hasn't updated theirs in many years and so on. That then leads to people defending Canon doing little or nothing in various areas whilst it leaves others exasperated.

Canon as shown what is possible with lens and optical technology, while Sony has done little or nothing in that area. Some people seem to think bare silicon sensors take pictures…

With the metabones adapters, I can put almost any lens on the Sony A7 series. Why should I limit myself to Sony's lenses?

But... but... but... system! system! system!

Yup, by going down the Sony mirrorless path the options for what a working "system" can be are much larger than with Canon.

If by "working system" you mean massively compromised with severe loss of functionality then yes, you might have a point.

Which pieces of functionality will be compromised?

You obviously haven't practiced what you preach, go use a Sony with a Metabones and try out the AF.

Not to mention compatibility. Not all EF lenses will auto focus. Pure manual lens with out the focus conformation chips will not work on the Metabones so you will need a separate dumb converter if you have those. All lens will be reported as Sony Lenses. If you want the correct lens corrections applied in Lightroom you will have to manual select them and or change the lens meta data. I could go on. But I think you get the idea.

I think I will say with my Canon Cameras for my Canon lenses. Personally I want to see what these rumored Cameras can do. I am not planning on upgrading my Canon DSLR soon. But perhaps I could be convinced.

 

[privatebydesign]

Sony has shown what is possible with new sensor technology whilst Canon hasn't updated theirs in many years and so on. That then leads to people defending Canon doing little or nothing in various areas whilst it leaves others exasperated.

Canon as shown what is possible with lens and optical technology, while Sony has done little or nothing in that area. Some people seem to think bare silicon sensors take pictures…

With the metabones adapters, I can put almost any lens on the Sony A7 series. Why should I limit myself to Sony's lenses?

But... but... but... system! system! system!

Yup, by going down the Sony mirrorless path the options for what a working "system" can be are much larger than with Canon.

If by "working system" you mean massively compromised with severe loss of functionality then yes, you might have a point.

Which pieces of functionality will be compromised?

You obviously haven't practiced what you preach, go use a Sony with a Metabones and try out the AF.

Is there any other loss in functionality aside from AF?

Read tcmatthews reply above. You really do have an incredible habit of talking from a position of no experience of the suggestions you make.

 

[grey_sally]

May already have been mentioned, but if they're planning on gearing the new cams toward video shooting in the same way that they did with the 5Diii (its resolution is no accident), then the MP count will have to be 2.458 x n2. i.e. 2.5, 9.8, 22.1, 39.3, 61.4, anything else would indicate it's no longer as high a priority. 39.3 in particular for a lower-res(!) model would be very nice for 4K, for instance, especially if they finally bring in CFast/USB3/Clean HDMI out

 

[PureClassA]

If you want auto focus with Canon lens on a Sony camera you will be disappointed.

Blasphemy! You profane the Holy Exmor, which by virtue of its omnipotence can do everything, and by definition everything includes autofocus. Sayeth Exmor, "Thou shalt have no other cameras before me."



Hey Don, do I need a sarcasm tag here, too?

probably.... but while all this was going on I found out that you can walk around for 5 hours at -13C with a 7D2 and that it will still work. I hope that any future Canon upgrades will also handle the cold as well...

and may I say that 10FPS and a kick-ass AF system are essential when trying to get pictures of small birds in flight.

That shot sucks. It's short 2 stops of DR. I bet you can't even push the shad.... hell I gotta stop, I'm laughing too hard. I'm not the least surprised that rig withstood 5 hours of hard freeze. I AM surprised You did :

 

[PureClassA]

As someone who owns Canon and has for decades, but is very interested and desirous of purchasing a Sony I'm under no illusion that metabones is a panacea for the EF glass owner. However, it does keep electronic communication between say, a 70-200 IS II and a Sony a7s, allowing one to electronically manipulate the aperture. If you're buying such a camera to shoot video, this is just perfect as manual focus is most common for such application. If you're expecting super fast AF for still photography .... you'll be disappointed. Philip Bloom is a great example. Shoots everything on Sony cameras (F55, F7, a7s) and has a treasure trove of most EF mount glass including Sigma ART in EF mount. They are his go-to glass for his cinematography. He does have some of the Sony glass for special cases where he really needs fast AF for a scene, but he laments the electronic MF assist motors in them because they make repeating a focus pull impossible. Hence the Canon glass with it's full mechanical manual focus. So there are pros and cons each way, but as long as you KNOW what you're getting and what you're using it for then kudos.

 

[lintoni]

I don't expect them to take place until the competition makes significant and consistent market gains against Canon. It's a mistake to think of the DSLR business as anything other than a business.

I'll agree with the second sentence but not the first. After all, isn't it better to make the changes before losing market share rather than after? Mismanaging major technological transitions drove Kodak into bankruptcy.

The managements of Olympus, Panasonic, Sony, Fuji and Samsung all decided, more or less simultaneously, that the case for MILCs over DSLRs was compelling enough to make major investments to overcome serious barriers to entry, the biggest of which seems to be getting stores to carry not-Canon/not-Nikon cameras so that consumers can look at them and buy them. It very much remains to be seen whether Canon and Nikon can leverage their installed base and very extensive DSLR lens lineups in the transition to MILCs.

The biggest of which seem to be getting people to actually buy MILCs instead of DSLRs...

If there was sufficient market demand, stores would stock them.

How does the market demand products if many/most of the people in that market may not even know they exist? Furthermore, stores stocking more not-Canon/Not-Nikon cameras means (1) they have to reduce the stocking levels of Canon and/or Nikon and/or (2) they have to stop stocking something completely unrelated (i.e., expand the sizes of their photographic departments) and/or (3) they have to expand the size of their stores.

B&H are now carrying Yongnuo products. How many people know about or have heard of Yongnuo. Yet B&H are stocking them. Why? Because they think they can sell them. Why aren't they stocking more MILCs? Answer please...

 

[RLPhoto]

If you want auto focus with Canon lens on a Sony camera you will be disappointed.

Blasphemy! You profane the Holy Exmor, which by virtue of its omnipotence can do everything, and by definition everything includes autofocus. Sayeth Exmor, "Thou shalt have no other cameras before me."



Hey Don, do I need a sarcasm tag here, too?

probably.... but while all this was going on I found out that you can walk around for 5 hours at -13C with a 7D2 and that it will still work. I hope that any future Canon upgrades will also handle the cold as well...

and may I say that 10FPS and a kick-ass AF system are essential when trying to get pictures of small birds in flight.

That's a nice photo. Great timing. 10fps FTW.

 

[RLPhoto]

Sony has shown what is possible with new sensor technology whilst Canon hasn't updated theirs in many years and so on. That then leads to people defending Canon doing little or nothing in various areas whilst it leaves others exasperated.

Canon as shown what is possible with lens and optical technology, while Sony has done little or nothing in that area. Some people seem to think bare silicon sensors take pictures…

With the metabones adapters, I can put almost any lens on the Sony A7 series. Why should I limit myself to Sony's lenses?

But... but... but... system! system! system!

Yup, by going down the Sony mirrorless path the options for what a working "system" can be are much larger than with Canon.

If by "working system" you mean massively compromised with severe loss of functionality then yes, you might have a point.

Which pieces of functionality will be compromised?

You obviously haven't practiced what you preach, go use a Sony with a Metabones and try out the AF.

Is there any other loss in functionality aside from AF?

Read tcmatthews reply above. You really do have an incredible habit of talking from a position of no experience of the suggestions you make.

I'm not having a conversation with tcmatthews, I'm having a conversation with you.

I want you to tell me if there is any other loss in functionality aside from AF.

Dude, I tried the metabones + a7 combo and it suxs. Heck the a7 AF suxs period compared to a measly old 5Dc's center AF point. :/ MILC hasn't convinced me of its AF yet and the only hope I've seen is DPAF. (Not terribly quick either.)

You can eat the whole cake with canon or you can eat a little of the cake and have some pie with a sony. Some people just don't like pie in their cake or cake in their pie.

 

[martti]

Am I the only one getting a migraine from these concentric quotes that are getting bigger and bigger and further and further beside the point?

Fully agree: Sony a6000 is not a replacement for a 5DIII. It is a very neat little machine, though.

 

[erjlphoto]

Is there any other loss in functionality aside from AF?
[/quote]


"iF" you own a Sony A7x buy one and let us know. Aren't the adapters returnable if you don't like them?

 

[tcmatthews]

Pure speculation and just to reiterate, I do not expect an actual 5d IV 5D III replacement this year. If it is announced I expect it to be a development announcement. Maybe we will get a 2015 Christmas surprise but color me skeptical. I have no doubt it is coming. I expect it will have:

• Dual Pixel CMOS auto focus
• improved auto focus
• 4K video HDMI out.
• USB 3 Interface
• Improved SD Card read out (hopefully full speed UHS-II support)
• Improved video features Zebras, focus peeking etc.
• More FPS but still less than 1Dx

Further speculation.
It will stay around the same MP but overall Image quality to improve. Of course Canon could be releasing the above specs as a Canon 6D II. Bump the Canon 5d IV to 39 mp with a AA filter. Then release a 50 mp 5Dc with out the AA filter. Hence the rumors two high MP cameras coming with the 5d III replacement coming later. It will just be 5dc 50 mp with out AA and CMOS dual pixel auto focus. 5D IV around 39 mp with AA filter and CMOS dual pixel auto focus 5D (moved up market). The real 5d III replacement will just be called a 6D II (which moved up market).

Through in a Rebel using the current 6D sensor for an entry level full frame.

The sad thing is I think Canon could do all of the above if they felt like it. But it is unlikely. More likely there are two versions of the high MP camera in development one with AA and one with out. Canon has yet to pick which it will release. It would be unlike them to release both of them. But they have not made this decision yet. Then there is another camera in development that is targeted at the same market segment as the 5D III.

I do think we will find out soon what this high MP camera or cameras are.

 

[tcmatthews]

"iF" you own a Sony A7x buy one and let us know. Aren't the adapters returnable if you don't like them?

They are now because you can actual buy Metabones from B&H. So that is one improvement that happened after I bought mine. Which is a huge peace of mind. But good luck getting a firmware update as far as I know you still have to ship them off to China.

 

[Khnnielsen]

Am I the only one getting a migraine from these concentric quotes that are getting bigger and bigger and further and further beside the point?

Fully agree: Sony a6000 is not a replacement for a 5DIII. It is a very neat little machine, though.

You are not the only one. The internet doesn't bring out the best sides of people, and I sometimes need a break from the forums, so I can keep my faith in humanity.

Besides - it can't be that surprising that a $600 camera can't replace a $3000 camera. I would hope that you get something for your money, when you spend that much on a camera.