EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
Where I currently live, I can't even buy an original LP-E6, not even at the Canon shop, every other camera store stocks some third party manufacturer version...so apart from lack of choice, the price difference is a determining factor.
Also where I live is the Mecca of piracy, you can almost never trust anything you buy here, add to that, there is no such thing as a return policy or warranty.
Buyer beware (or wait to go to a more trustworthy city/country)
I currentlly use a third party battery which was less than half the price of a Canon, it charges in the original Canon charger, it seems to discharge (through use) at the same rate....it reports it's charge status in-camera
It's been over a year now with this Third Party, so far I have no issues at all....
Where I currently live, I can't even buy an original LP-E6, not even at the Canon shop, every other camera store stocks some third party manufacturer version...so apart from lack of choice, the price difference is a determining factor.
Also where I live is the Mecca of piracy, you can almost never trust anything you buy here, add to that, there is no such thing as a return policy or warranty.
Buyer beware (or wait to go to a more trustworthy city/country)
I currentlly use a third party battery which was less than half the price of a Canon, it charges in the original Canon charger, it seems to discharge (through use) at the same rate....it reports it's charge status in-camera
It's been over a year now with this Third Party, so far I have no issues at all....
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
This will make me think twice before installing the next firmware update. If Canon disables my 3rd party batteries, I'm not gonna be happy.
This will make me think twice before installing the next firmware update. If Canon disables my 3rd party batteries, I'm not gonna be happy.
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
Corners have been cut?
Canon are producing probably millions of those batteries, the price for producing them is 100% under 5$ for each.
I have 60D and the Canon battery in my country costs around 100$, I got not genuine one for 13$ on ebay two years ago and it's serving me well for a spare. If the third parties can have profit for such amount of money for the end user, Canon have to be shamed. What's the difference, Canon's are not hand made by extremely qualified Japanese engineers and don't have to cost so much.
Corners have been cut?
Canon are producing probably millions of those batteries, the price for producing them is 100% under 5$ for each.
I have 60D and the Canon battery in my country costs around 100$, I got not genuine one for 13$ on ebay two years ago and it's serving me well for a spare. If the third parties can have profit for such amount of money for the end user, Canon have to be shamed. What's the difference, Canon's are not hand made by extremely qualified Japanese engineers and don't have to cost so much.
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
They're free to make they money from where they want as long as customers keep buying, there's no badge "works with 3rd party batteries" on the 5d3 case. It's also good industry practice when it comes to get the profits from parts (ink, batteries, ...) while keep the cost of the main product down.
But they shouldn't try to ridicule the customer about this fact and try to argue it's for customer protection from 3rd party fakes when everybody knows this won't work due to working chip-copies ... they should simply say nothing or be truthful enough to state it's part of their business calculation and they don't want to have the profit taken away.
noncho said:
They're free to make they money from where they want as long as customers keep buying, there's no badge "works with 3rd party batteries" on the 5d3 case. It's also good industry practice when it comes to get the profits from parts (ink, batteries, ...) while keep the cost of the main product down.
But they shouldn't try to ridicule the customer about this fact and try to argue it's for customer protection from 3rd party fakes when everybody knows this won't work due to working chip-copies ... they should simply say nothing or be truthful enough to state it's part of their business calculation and they don't want to have the profit taken away.
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
In its PDF brochure linked above Canon recommends: avoid deals that are “too good to be true”.
It's probably unwise to purchase LP-E6 type batteries with "Canon" label on them for less than £ 99.00 (it could be a fake)
jeffa4444 said:
In its PDF brochure linked above Canon recommends: avoid deals that are “too good to be true”.
It's probably unwise to purchase LP-E6 type batteries with "Canon" label on them for less than £ 99.00 (it could be a fake)
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
This is a non-issue. If you are a Canon guy, you only use Canon gear. So, again: What's the issue here?!
Canon Rumors said:<div name=\"googleone_share_1\" style=\"position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;\"><glusone size=\"tall\" count=\"1\" href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=15193\"></g
<p><strong>Tech Support
</strong>The story below has some good information in regards to the <a href=\"http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/847545-REG/Canon_5260A002_EOS_5D_Mark_III.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296\" target=\"_blank\">EOS 5D Mark III</a> and some third party batteries. Not all of them are created equal, and a few companies will support you in making sure you get batteries that are 100% compatible.</p>
<p><strong>Says Jon
</strong><em>When Canon upgraded the firmware of the 5D Mark III to 1.2.2/1.2.3 they killed some of the functionality of aftermarket batteries.</em></p>
<ul>
<li><em>Each time you put a battery in it required you to acknowledge “Communication with the battery is irregular” and the camera would not register it.</em></li>
</ul>
<p><em>My contact at Canon explained this was an effort to cut out counterfeit batteries claiming to be Canon batteries. </em><em>I explained to him the 3rd party batteries I used were clearly NOT labeled Canon and in addition contained a chip to allow it to communicate properly. </em><em>My contact explained that Canon would probably never make a change backwards on this situation.</em></p>
<div id=\"attachment_15194\" style=\"width: 585px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/5d3battery.jpg\"><img class=\"size-medium wp-image-15194\" alt=\"Third party battery error messages.\" src=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/5d3battery-575x215.jpg\" width=\"575\" height=\"215\" /></a><p class=\"wp-caption-text\">Third party battery error messages.</p></div>
<p><strong>Solution</strong>
Jon contacted the vendor that makes the batteries he likes: Maxtek/YoKool, they advised him that they now have a new battery that is 100% compatible to the new firmware. The new batteries he got directly from them do not have the communications issue and they will register with the camera.</p>
<p>Maxtek/YoKool only sells these batteries through Amazon. Maxtek/YoKool advises at least for the moment (until Amazon stocks reduce and have the new batteries) to make sure to order the batteries directly from them, not use the Amazon fulfilled link: <strong><a href=\"http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0053WG2A2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0053WG2A2&linkCode=as2&tag=canorumo-20\" target=\"_blank\">See the correct batteries here</a></strong>.</p>
<p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r</strong></p>
This is a non-issue. If you are a Canon guy, you only use Canon gear. So, again: What's the issue here?!
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
To those of you complaining about battery prices....price-match! I bought two genuine Canon batteries for my 5D3 for the price of one because I bought them from a retailer that matches prices with online competitors.
To those of you complaining about battery prices....price-match! I bought two genuine Canon batteries for my 5D3 for the price of one because I bought them from a retailer that matches prices with online competitors.
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
Just to be 100% sure about this: some folks on dslr-forum.de decoded the Canon lens protocol, and discovered, why older Sigma lenses threw that dreaded Err99 when attached to a 10D or later camera. Sure enough, they just flipped a bit in the protocol, for absolutely no reason whatsoever, except for the single purpose that a number of third party lens owners got shafted. After playing the same game with third party flash owners a few times, Canon now trained their sights on third party battery owners.
All this drivel about "Canon wants to protect their customers from bogeyman" is just that: drivel. And to some of these "if you spend x000 $ on camera gear, why be cheap when spending y00 $ on batteries": I really shouldn't have to answer to Canon or anyone why I make a purchasing decision, and Canon should be the very last one to slap my wrist after all the money I have spent on their gear.
Just to be 100% sure about this: some folks on dslr-forum.de decoded the Canon lens protocol, and discovered, why older Sigma lenses threw that dreaded Err99 when attached to a 10D or later camera. Sure enough, they just flipped a bit in the protocol, for absolutely no reason whatsoever, except for the single purpose that a number of third party lens owners got shafted. After playing the same game with third party flash owners a few times, Canon now trained their sights on third party battery owners.
All this drivel about "Canon wants to protect their customers from bogeyman" is just that: drivel. And to some of these "if you spend x000 $ on camera gear, why be cheap when spending y00 $ on batteries": I really shouldn't have to answer to Canon or anyone why I make a purchasing decision, and Canon should be the very last one to slap my wrist after all the money I have spent on their gear.
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
Probably what we'll see next is batteries with an built-in usb interface to update the chip and defeat Canon's "customer service and protection" attempts just like Sigma (lenses) and Yongnuo (flashes) recently did :-o
Rudeofus said:
Probably what we'll see next is batteries with an built-in usb interface to update the chip and defeat Canon's "customer service and protection" attempts just like Sigma (lenses) and Yongnuo (flashes) recently did :-o
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
You can choose to buy Canon or 3rd party equipment as you would like. Just don't expect Canon to care about maintaining 3rd party compatibility. You make your choice that is best for you, and Canon will make the best choice for itself. Canon doesn't owe anything to 3rd party equipment manufacturers, but it does have a vested interest to make sure that all Canon stuff plays nicely together.
You got your benefit in a lower price upfront by going with a third party manufacturer, who sells at a discounted price to offset the risk. After all, who'd buy a third party part if it was the same price as Canon's? And clearly you have not spent enough on Canon gear else you wouldn't have any 3rd party equipment. :
Rudeofus said:
You can choose to buy Canon or 3rd party equipment as you would like. Just don't expect Canon to care about maintaining 3rd party compatibility. You make your choice that is best for you, and Canon will make the best choice for itself. Canon doesn't owe anything to 3rd party equipment manufacturers, but it does have a vested interest to make sure that all Canon stuff plays nicely together.
You got your benefit in a lower price upfront by going with a third party manufacturer, who sells at a discounted price to offset the risk. After all, who'd buy a third party part if it was the same price as Canon's? And clearly you have not spent enough on Canon gear else you wouldn't have any 3rd party equipment. :
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
Nobody in his right mind should expect Canon to care about their competitors and they have absolutely no obligations to them. Although, one could argue that a working ecosystem of third party accessories is one of the key advantages of established camera brands ...
But this protocol change, as documented in the dslr-forum.de thread, did not hurt Sigma as much as it hurt Canon's existing customer base. Sigma updated their lens chip, offered an upgrade path for their expensive lenses, threw folks with cheaper or older Sigma lenses under the bus and kept going, ongoing PR damage be damned. Paying Canon camera customers were the ones who got shafted as some of their lenses turned essentially worthless overnight.
Once this bullying like behavior is widely seen as what it is and starts backfiring, it will disappear overnight.
Random Orbits said:
Nobody in his right mind should expect Canon to care about their competitors and they have absolutely no obligations to them. Although, one could argue that a working ecosystem of third party accessories is one of the key advantages of established camera brands ...
But this protocol change, as documented in the dslr-forum.de thread, did not hurt Sigma as much as it hurt Canon's existing customer base. Sigma updated their lens chip, offered an upgrade path for their expensive lenses, threw folks with cheaper or older Sigma lenses under the bus and kept going, ongoing PR damage be damned. Paying Canon camera customers were the ones who got shafted as some of their lenses turned essentially worthless overnight.
Once this bullying like behavior is widely seen as what it is and starts backfiring, it will disappear overnight.
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
Listed for ~$60 (out of stock right now), I paid ~$60 back in 2010, so let's just stop with the "$100" talk, because MSRP is never the price (look at the 5DmkIII)
So, is this a conspiracy? Let's look at some points:
Date first available at Amazon.com: November 5, 2008 (5 year old design)
Compatible with:
EOS 5D Mark III
EOS 5D Mark II
EOS 6D
EOS 7D
EOS 70D
EOS 60D
EOS 60Da
If Canon were protecting their 'monopoly' wouldn't they change the tech slightly each year to make it harder to copy?
If Canon were gouging it's customers, wouldn't it make the batteries different so every time you upgrade, they get more cash?
I'm not seeing it.
Listed for ~$60 (out of stock right now), I paid ~$60 back in 2010, so let's just stop with the "$100" talk, because MSRP is never the price (look at the 5DmkIII)
So, is this a conspiracy? Let's look at some points:
Date first available at Amazon.com: November 5, 2008 (5 year old design)
Compatible with:
EOS 5D Mark III
EOS 5D Mark II
EOS 6D
EOS 7D
EOS 70D
EOS 60D
EOS 60Da
If Canon were protecting their 'monopoly' wouldn't they change the tech slightly each year to make it harder to copy?
If Canon were gouging it's customers, wouldn't it make the batteries different so every time you upgrade, they get more cash?
I'm not seeing it.
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
That's exactly what they do as newer cameras are able to tell original Canon and Canon copies apart while older cameras keep recognizing all as valid.
No, because you can only milk your customers for so much, and you have to have at least a somehow recognizable reason for doing so.
Take mobile phone manufacturers: They kept changing their power adapters so much that the EU intervened and make them implement a standard so prevent electronics garbage. Then they all had an own way of sticking a headphone to a mobile phone until customers were fed up about it and started buying phones that have a standard jack.
Canon might be a big manufacturer, but they don't have a monopoly so customers do have a choice ... and accessory continuity like old battery models in new models is an incentive to stick with the brand. Last not least, changing hardware production like batteries for each model is expensive for Canon, that's why they keep recycling parts like the af arrays and so on.
dstppy said:
That's exactly what they do as newer cameras are able to tell original Canon and Canon copies apart while older cameras keep recognizing all as valid.
dstppy said:
No, because you can only milk your customers for so much, and you have to have at least a somehow recognizable reason for doing so.
Take mobile phone manufacturers: They kept changing their power adapters so much that the EU intervened and make them implement a standard so prevent electronics garbage. Then they all had an own way of sticking a headphone to a mobile phone until customers were fed up about it and started buying phones that have a standard jack.
Canon might be a big manufacturer, but they don't have a monopoly so customers do have a choice ... and accessory continuity like old battery models in new models is an incentive to stick with the brand. Last not least, changing hardware production like batteries for each model is expensive for Canon, that's why they keep recycling parts like the af arrays and so on.
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
Proprietary BULLCRAP!! This has nothing whatsoever to do with "customer safety protection." This is all about money. Make third party accessories incompatible so that customers will be forced to buy overpriced wares from Canon. Apple perfected the proprietary ecosystem, and now many other companies try to follow suit.
My third party LP-E6 batteries last over 50% longer than my Canon batteries. They register exactly like Canon batteries and work in Canon chargers. They were about a quarter the price of Canon batteries. I have no intention of ever buying a battery other than third party. I have used them for years in my cameras with no ill effects. If new firmware doesn't support my batteries, then the answer for me is easy. My camera works fine as it is. I won't upgrade to the newer firmware.
Proprietary BULLCRAP!! This has nothing whatsoever to do with "customer safety protection." This is all about money. Make third party accessories incompatible so that customers will be forced to buy overpriced wares from Canon. Apple perfected the proprietary ecosystem, and now many other companies try to follow suit.
My third party LP-E6 batteries last over 50% longer than my Canon batteries. They register exactly like Canon batteries and work in Canon chargers. They were about a quarter the price of Canon batteries. I have no intention of ever buying a battery other than third party. I have used them for years in my cameras with no ill effects. If new firmware doesn't support my batteries, then the answer for me is easy. My camera works fine as it is. I won't upgrade to the newer firmware.
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
I pointed this out in the Canon Australia facebook page as soon as the firmware for the Canon 5DIII disabled reporting of third party batteries - their response? To delete my post!
They know very well the effect it has on all the users of third party batteries and they don't give a rats about it.
To my mind I have three choices - 1. Change brands 2. Put up with the stupid prompts about third party batteries or 3. Reinstall the original firmware which was working fine to start with (edit - Option 3 doesn't exist - once the version of firmware is upgraded, you can;t reinstall the original firmware back in it ).
Number 3 looks to be the winner until Canon realise that all they are doing is inconvienencing the people who shell out the money for their product.
I pointed this out in the Canon Australia facebook page as soon as the firmware for the Canon 5DIII disabled reporting of third party batteries - their response? To delete my post!
They know very well the effect it has on all the users of third party batteries and they don't give a rats about it.
To my mind I have three choices - 1. Change brands 2. Put up with the stupid prompts about third party batteries or 3. Reinstall the original firmware which was working fine to start with (edit - Option 3 doesn't exist - once the version of firmware is upgraded, you can;t reinstall the original firmware back in it ).
Number 3 looks to be the winner until Canon realise that all they are doing is inconvienencing the people who shell out the money for their product.
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
:-> usually if pressured, the first reactions of manufacturers is to attack back, the next step is to cave in if pressure continues to mount (though I don't think Canon will take this measure back).
Reminds me of Microsoft with the new xbox, and how not to do it: They wanted to force users to be connected to the Internet even when playing offline games and tried preventing them from selling used games. When customers complained, M$ argued "#dealwithit", and after the resulting outcry they took both measures back because the ps4 doesn't have it. Alas, with dslrs you are much more stuck to one system so it's not easy to exert working pressure other than to ask politely :-\
gunna64 said:
:-> usually if pressured, the first reactions of manufacturers is to attack back, the next step is to cave in if pressure continues to mount (though I don't think Canon will take this measure back).
Reminds me of Microsoft with the new xbox, and how not to do it: They wanted to force users to be connected to the Internet even when playing offline games and tried preventing them from selling used games. When customers complained, M$ argued "#dealwithit", and after the resulting outcry they took both measures back because the ps4 doesn't have it. Alas, with dslrs you are much more stuck to one system so it's not easy to exert working pressure other than to ask politely :-\
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Re: EOS 5D Mark III & Third Party Batteries
Hi.. I am "Jon"... I am a professional photographer based in Virginia..I have been shooting for over 20 years.. I have no vested interest in either Yokool or Amazon. I shoot a LOT of video which means I go through a lot of batteries in a day long shoot.. I use aftermarket batteries, so I can save money.. The 1.2.2 update gave me raw output from the hdmi port, but then required me 2 extra steps every time I put a new battery in. I spent a lot of time with my Canon rep over the last few months discussing this situation. Their position was that Canon would not remove this modification to the firmware. SO... I asked Maxtek/Yokool about this as they are the only 3rd party batteries I am aware of that also have a chip, the chip BTW that is needed to use the Canon registration system. I only sent this post in to CanonRumors in case others like me want to use the registration system, avoid the 2 step acknowledgment of the 3rd party battery. I will repeat I have nothing to do with Yokool/Maxtek or Amazon.. I could care less if you purchase them or not.. I now have 5 of these (4 of the older ones and 1 newer) and they have always performed at least as well as the 3 Canon batteries I have.. BTW I will be in the Arctic in March with about 10 batteries (I plan to purchase 8 more of these) .. when I return I will advise how they hold up in -20C/-40C conditions..
Hi.. I am "Jon"... I am a professional photographer based in Virginia..I have been shooting for over 20 years.. I have no vested interest in either Yokool or Amazon. I shoot a LOT of video which means I go through a lot of batteries in a day long shoot.. I use aftermarket batteries, so I can save money.. The 1.2.2 update gave me raw output from the hdmi port, but then required me 2 extra steps every time I put a new battery in. I spent a lot of time with my Canon rep over the last few months discussing this situation. Their position was that Canon would not remove this modification to the firmware. SO... I asked Maxtek/Yokool about this as they are the only 3rd party batteries I am aware of that also have a chip, the chip BTW that is needed to use the Canon registration system. I only sent this post in to CanonRumors in case others like me want to use the registration system, avoid the 2 step acknowledgment of the 3rd party battery. I will repeat I have nothing to do with Yokool/Maxtek or Amazon.. I could care less if you purchase them or not.. I now have 5 of these (4 of the older ones and 1 newer) and they have always performed at least as well as the 3 Canon batteries I have.. BTW I will be in the Arctic in March with about 10 batteries (I plan to purchase 8 more of these) .. when I return I will advise how they hold up in -20C/-40C conditions..
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