EOS 5D Mark IV Testing Has Begun [CR2]

[Canon1]

@dilbert – you are flat out wrong (again), and you (again) refuse to admit it. It says a lot about a person when they refuse to admit when they are wrong, and none of what it says is good.

It all depends on your perspective. I would remind you that people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but you probably wouldn't understand what I mean by that.

Wow, you guys are annoying.

This camera would need to really need to step it up for me to consider it. I'm so pleased with my 5d3 that this next generation might be a generation skipped. just about the only feature that would interest me is even cleaner files at high ISO, which will likely be a marginal improvement or none at all if they introduce a higher mp sensor.

Anyone else out there with a 5d3 thinking the same thing, or would something else compel you to upgrade?

 

[tron]

@dilbert – you are flat out wrong (again), and you (again) refuse to admit it. It says a lot about a person when they refuse to admit when they are wrong, and none of what it says is good.

It all depends on your perspective. I would remind you that people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but you probably wouldn't understand what I mean by that.

Wow, you guys are annoying.

This camera would need to really need to step it up for me to consider it. I'm so pleased with my 5d3 that this next generation might be a generation skipped. just about the only feature that would interest me is even cleaner files at high ISO, which will likely be a marginal improvement or none at all if they introduce a higher mp sensor.

Anyone else out there with a 5d3 thinking the same thing, or would something else compel you to upgrade?

This is my #1 wish for 5d4 with increased DR a close second...

 

[bdunbar79]

I think it will have more MP's but still have the same DR at ISO 6400 as the current 1Dx.

 

[pedro]

Well, altough my question might seem a bit off topic, is the once rumored 5Dc 18 MP still likely to re-enter the rumor mill? As the original poster refered to a quote allegedly uttered by a Canon representative along with the 5DIV.

 

[rfdesigner]

mtavel:
Dear Mr. Santa Claus,
14+ stops of dynamic range please.
I've been good this year!
-Timmy
P.S.
Oh yeah.... and focus points that I can see in dark scenes. Thanks!

///////////

and adjustable/EC in manual / with auto ISO..... and spot meter following the focus point...

or else
I'll put out LAST yrs moldy cookies..... for the third yr....
and ..publish those fotos of you and the elf....
-Timmy / aka Tom

I think you'll get the EC in Manual+AutoISO.. I skimmed the 5Ds manual and it seems to have it so I'd be shocked in the 5DIV didn't

 

[scottkinfw]

I would like to see speedier and more accurate focusing.
sek

Great, another camera begging to take my money with it... My 5d3 is still proving to be a workhorse... i dont see me needing to replace that until probably later next year, but who knows, given the specs and my gas, who knows what is to come... how much does a kidney run on the black market now-a-days?

 

[scottkinfw]

Another benefit. They come in handy in the event that the AA batteries die in your flash. It has saved my pic before.

sek

The 5D3 already has Dual Card Slots.

Pop up flash (no, I'm not kidding)

Nooo! Please not. No one really need a popup flash with a lousy Light directly on the cam...

I do - all the time. When I'm on travel, and running around doing a million different things, setting up off camera flashes is simply not an option. So I need an on-camera flash. A 580EX is so large that it displaces a lens. So I carry a little tiny Sunpac to replace the missing pop up. It's a pain, it's fragile, and it's not ready to use when I need it in all cases. The pop up is often just the blip of fill I need and it's way better that the alternative which is nothing at all or a POS little on-camera flash.

+1

it won't get one though because all the faux pros won't be able to look like they think a real pro must look and they'll go ape on Canon if they put one in

Right. That's why Nikon doesn't put them on their 5D style cameras, the D750 and D800 series.

Oh wait, they do.

People who oppose them do so largely out of smugness as you describe, not out of legitimate reasons. They're great for macros, a catch light, a little fill or a shot that you can't possibly get using fast lenses and high ISOs. People who think any flash located anywhere near the lens is useless ought to figure out why professional ring lights exist (I hate them by the way - nasty alien looking ring catch lights in the eyes).

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

@dilbert – you are flat out wrong (again), and you (again) refuse to admit it. It says a lot about a person when they refuse to admit when they are wrong, and none of what it says is good.

OK, you got him this time, but it all seems pretty kettle, pot, black to me.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The 5D3 already has Dual Card Slots.

Pop up flash (no, I'm not kidding)

Nooo! Please not. No one really need a popup flash with a lousy Light directly on the cam...

I do - all the time. When I'm on travel, and running around doing a million different things, setting up off camera flashes is simply not an option. So I need an on-camera flash. A 580EX is so large that it displaces a lens. So I carry a little tiny Sunpac to replace the missing pop up. It's a pain, it's fragile, and it's not ready to use when I need it in all cases. The pop up is often just the blip of fill I need and it's way better that the alternative which is nothing at all or a POS little on-camera flash.

+1

it won't get one though because all the faux pros won't be able to look like they think a real pro must look and they'll go ape on Canon if they put one in

Right. That's why Nikon doesn't put them on their 5D style cameras, the D750 and D800 series.

Oh wait, they do.

People who oppose them do so largely out of smugness as you describe, not out of legitimate reasons. They're great for macros, a catch light, a little fill or a shot that you can't possibly get using fast lenses and high ISOs. People who think any flash located anywhere near the lens is useless ought to figure out why professional ring lights exist (I hate them by the way - nasty alien looking ring catch lights in the eyes).

Yes, Nikon does, but Canon doesn't because the Canon crowd will go nuts on them if they do.
Dig into the comments and you'll see a lot of smugness in the viralent anti-popup clamor from many.
None of the reasons you list there have anything to do with why one should not be included on the camera.

And I was actually supporting your prior comment or so I thought, but oh well.

 

[slclick]

The 5D3 already has Dual Card Slots.

Pop up flash (no, I'm not kidding)

Nooo! Please not. No one really need a popup flash with a lousy Light directly on the cam...

I do - all the time. When I'm on travel, and running around doing a million different things, setting up off camera flashes is simply not an option. So I need an on-camera flash. A 580EX is so large that it displaces a lens. So I carry a little tiny Sunpac to replace the missing pop up. It's a pain, it's fragile, and it's not ready to use when I need it in all cases. The pop up is often just the blip of fill I need and it's way better that the alternative which is nothing at all or a POS little on-camera flash.

+1

it won't get one though because all the faux pros won't be able to look like they think a real pro must look and they'll go ape on Canon if they put one in

Right. That's why Nikon doesn't put them on their 5D style cameras, the D750 and D800 series.

Oh wait, they do.

People who oppose them do so largely out of smugness as you describe, not out of legitimate reasons. They're great for macros, a catch light, a little fill or a shot that you can't possibly get using fast lenses and high ISOs. People who think any flash located anywhere near the lens is useless ought to figure out why professional ring lights exist (I hate them by the way - nasty alien looking ring catch lights in the eyes).

Yes, Nikon does, but Canon doesn't because the Canon crowd will go nuts on them if they do.
Dig into the comments and you'll see a lot of smugness in the viralent anti-popup clamor from many.
None of the reasons you list there have anything to do with why one should not be included on the camera.

And I was actually supporting your prior comment or so I thought, but oh well.

Why is not being an advocate of something low quality considered smug?

 

[Lee Jay]

The 5D3 already has Dual Card Slots.

Pop up flash (no, I'm not kidding)

Nooo! Please not. No one really need a popup flash with a lousy Light directly on the cam...

I do - all the time. When I'm on travel, and running around doing a million different things, setting up off camera flashes is simply not an option. So I need an on-camera flash. A 580EX is so large that it displaces a lens. So I carry a little tiny Sunpac to replace the missing pop up. It's a pain, it's fragile, and it's not ready to use when I need it in all cases. The pop up is often just the blip of fill I need and it's way better that the alternative which is nothing at all or a POS little on-camera flash.

+1

it won't get one though because all the faux pros won't be able to look like they think a real pro must look and they'll go ape on Canon if they put one in

Right. That's why Nikon doesn't put them on their 5D style cameras, the D750 and D800 series.

Oh wait, they do.

People who oppose them do so largely out of smugness as you describe, not out of legitimate reasons. They're great for macros, a catch light, a little fill or a shot that you can't possibly get using fast lenses and high ISOs. People who think any flash located anywhere near the lens is useless ought to figure out why professional ring lights exist (I hate them by the way - nasty alien looking ring catch lights in the eyes).

Yes, Nikon does, but Canon doesn't because the Canon crowd will go nuts on them if they do.
Dig into the comments and you'll see a lot of smugness in the viralent anti-popup clamor from many.
None of the reasons you list there have anything to do with why one should not be included on the camera.

And I was actually supporting your prior comment or so I thought, but oh well.

Why is not being an advocate of something low quality considered smug?

Because the alternative is nothing and there's no rule that says you have to use it. It does no harm and is useful in some situations so arguing against it can be nothing else.

 

[slclick]

The 5D3 already has Dual Card Slots.

Pop up flash (no, I'm not kidding)

Nooo! Please not. No one really need a popup flash with a lousy Light directly on the cam...

I do - all the time. When I'm on travel, and running around doing a million different things, setting up off camera flashes is simply not an option. So I need an on-camera flash. A 580EX is so large that it displaces a lens. So I carry a little tiny Sunpac to replace the missing pop up. It's a pain, it's fragile, and it's not ready to use when I need it in all cases. The pop up is often just the blip of fill I need and it's way better that the alternative which is nothing at all or a POS little on-camera flash.

+1

it won't get one though because all the faux pros won't be able to look like they think a real pro must look and they'll go ape on Canon if they put one in

Right. That's why Nikon doesn't put them on their 5D style cameras, the D750 and D800 series.

Oh wait, they do.

People who oppose them do so largely out of smugness as you describe, not out of legitimate reasons. They're great for macros, a catch light, a little fill or a shot that you can't possibly get using fast lenses and high ISOs. People who think any flash located anywhere near the lens is useless ought to figure out why professional ring lights exist (I hate them by the way - nasty alien looking ring catch lights in the eyes).

Yes, Nikon does, but Canon doesn't because the Canon crowd will go nuts on them if they do.
Dig into the comments and you'll see a lot of smugness in the viralent anti-popup clamor from many.
None of the reasons you list there have anything to do with why one should not be included on the camera.

And I was actually supporting your prior comment or so I thought, but oh well.

Why is not being an advocate of something low quality considered smug?

Because the alternative is nothing and there's no rule that says you have to use it. It does no harm and is useful in some situations so arguing against it can be nothing else.

Well I do see your point but it is also one more point of engineering and potential failure. I'm no strobist myself and do 95% of my shooting in natural/available light(macro the exception)I would prefer that area to be used for a better VF and shutter mech.

Sure my point is in the minority, just like wanting a stills only body but my main point was to counter the smugness stone thrown with sensibility. Maybe your so called 'nothing alternative' is a positive one. Less is more.

 

[jeffa4444]

HEVC (H.265) & Rec. 2020
"HEVC was designed to substantially improve coding efficiency compared to H.264/MPEG-4 AVC HP, i.e. to reduce bitrate requirements by half with comparable image quality, at the expense of increased computational complexity.[1] HEVC was designed with the goal of allowing video content to have a data compression ratio of up to 1000:1.[67] Depending on the application requirements, HEVC encoders can trade off computational complexity, compression rate, robustness to errors, and encoding delay time.[1] Two of the key features where HEVC was improved compared to H.264/MPEG-4 AVC was support for higher resolution video and improved parallel processing methods.[1]

HEVC is targeted at next-generation HDTV displays and content capture systems which feature progressive scanned frame rates and display resolutions from QVGA (320x240) to 4320p (8192x4320), as well as improved picture quality in terms of noise level, color spaces (Rec.2020), and dynamic range.

Especially for Dilbert and Neuroanatomist.
H.265 was designed to compliment Rec.2020 (about 4.5X the color space of Rec.709) and to take advantage of computational improvements in dual & quad processing as well as dedicated processing (like the Arm Big / Little processors used in new iPhones & iPads). These also produce less heat and use less power when not under load its simply not true to say parallel processing is less efficient its the exact opposite newer processors reduce errors and have enabled faster readouts and multi-tasking the other advantage is less readout / dark current noise because signals can be reprocessed before writing to cards etc.

 

[LOALTD]

HEVC (H.265) & Rec. 2020
"HEVC was designed to substantially improve coding efficiency compared to H.264/MPEG-4 AVC HP, i.e. to reduce bitrate requirements by half with comparable image quality, at the expense of increased computational complexity.[1] HEVC was designed with the goal of allowing video content to have a data compression ratio of up to 1000:1.[67] Depending on the application requirements, HEVC encoders can trade off computational complexity, compression rate, robustness to errors, and encoding delay time.[1] Two of the key features where HEVC was improved compared to H.264/MPEG-4 AVC was support for higher resolution video and improved parallel processing methods.[1]

HEVC is targeted at next-generation HDTV displays and content capture systems which feature progressive scanned frame rates and display resolutions from QVGA (320x240) to 4320p (8192x4320), as well as improved picture quality in terms of noise level, color spaces (Rec.2020), and dynamic range.

Especially for Dilbert and Neuroanatomist.
H.265 was designed to compliment Rec.2020 (about 4.5X the color space of Rec.709) and to take advantage of computational improvements in dual & quad processing as well as dedicated processing (like the Arm Big / Little processors used in new iPhones & iPads). These also produce less heat and use less power when not under load its simply not true to say parallel processing is less efficient its the exact opposite newer processors reduce errors and have enabled faster readouts and multi-tasking the other advantage is less readout / dark current noise because signals can be reprocessed before writing to cards etc.

Indeed! If a camera model is going to be refreshed/replaced every year or so...I can see not adding H.265 support. As a hobbiest videographer, it really is a pain to work with given current tech. It is visionary of Samsung to include it in the NX1


I stress: CURRENT


For a camera that is going to be kicking around for 3-4 years before replacement (like a full-frame DSLR)...H.264 is going to seem very primitive, very quickly. Not to mention, it's hard drive space hungry!


Intel Skylake is coming out at the end of this year (allegedly) and will have hardware-support for H.265/HEVC. Things will get much better for this codec once that happens! Also: the newest Snapdragon chips from Qualcomm already support hardware decoding (although maybe not encoding, I can't remember) of H.265/HEVC and are in most non-Samsung, non-Apple smartphones.

 

[Marsu42]

t's all about throughput. If the sensor is the engine...then the processor is the gearbox and differential.

Thanks for explaining, all, I wasn't aware a digic chip has such a fixed processing data rate.

Especially for Dilbert and Neuroanatomist.

Our two CR regulars obviously are about to make a name for themselves beyond a post count :->

 

[Loswr]

it won't get one though because all the faux pros won't be able to look like they think a real pro must look and they'll go ape on Canon if they put one in

People who oppose them do so largely out of smugness as you describe...

A few weeks ago I was at an event where cameras were allowed but use of flash was strictly prohibited. We were told in advance, and at the door, and someone walked around to every individual with a camera to deliver a personal reminder. Needless to say, I was feeling very smug as I answered haughtily that my camera doesn't have a flash to turn off.

I hope I looked like I think a real pro must look as I was standing there with my EOS M.

 

[LOALTD]

...
Intel Skylake is coming out at the end of this year (allegedly) and will have hardware-support for H.265/HEVC. Things will get much better for this codec once that happens! Also: the newest Snapdragon chips from Qualcomm already support hardware decoding (although maybe not encoding, I can't remember) of H.265/HEVC and are in most non-Samsung, non-Apple smartphones.

Intel's latest NUC already has on-chip H.265 decoding:
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/intel-broadwell-nuc-mini-pc,review-2688.html

Can you point me to where it says that? HEVC and H.265 do not even appear anywhere in that review.


None of the Intel GPU's currently out fully accelerate HEVC/H.265. Broadwell has hybrid support, it still causes a significant hit to the CPU. Not good for video work and passable for playback:


"In summary, our experiments suggest that 4Kp60 HEVC decoding with hybrid acceleration might not be a great idea for Intel GPUs at least."


http://www.anandtech.com/show/9152/futureproofing-htpcs-for-the-4k-era-hdmi-hdcp-and-hevc

 

[Perio]

Anticipated topics on 5d IV:
Should I choose 5d IV over 5d III?
Should I get 5d IV + 7d II vs. 1dx II?
I bought 5d IV and used it for few days but my pictures at 200k ISO still look noisy. Canon screwed its customers again.
5d IV sucks. I hope 5d V will be better, otherwise I switch.

 

[RyanGstudios]

For me the only thing i would LOVE and that would make me switch would be USB3 tethering. Plain and simple.

I would love
14+ stops of DR
ISO12k noise like the current 1600 on the 5DIII
Dual CF slots
Gigabit ethernet for tethering (if no usb3) or both
H.256 ability
I would actually LIKE a swivel LCD for video work
Same body, same batteries
an LCD that is closer to replicating the exposure of the images I take

Some way to pick my file size before capture. Going from 22mp as the highest all the way to 10mp is a huge jump and I would love a 14mp option or 12mp. Not sure if this is a hardware or software limitation but 10mp isn't enough and 22mp is too much for some of my work

I could care less about 4k video as I think 1080P is just fine

Ryan G

 

[David]

Whilst I am sure the IV will be an impressive beast, it is going to be too little too late. As a long time Canon user, I am agitated with the lack of progress in my gear ergo I am agitated with Canon. The IV should have some before that monstrous 50MP beast they released earlier this year. What a shocker and what a mistake.

I love my 5Diii but I need more from it and that "more" was due well before now. I am not the kind of guy who needs the latest of everything but I do expect basic technology to be at my fingertips and most of what I want was available when the iii was released. I bet good money most of what I want won't be in the IV either. We are not talking simple things like GPS, wireless connectivity, face detect, tilting screen and most of all, competitive DR.

If we were not in the midst of the mirrorless revolution, I'd shut up and wait it out. But we ARE in that time and the two big players are embarrassingly far behind meeting the needs of the professionals and masses alike.

If the IV came out right now, I might just be interested in remaining a Canon user. Looks like I, like many others, will be looking elsewhere.

Not sure if CaNikon really is embarrassingly far behind. After severe testing the Sony A7 line I found the concept acceptable for special purposes but no way as usable as a DSLR. Even the OM-D cameras are genius in its own kind but lack in IQ what shows most in PP. I want to say that a bad concept can not lead to somewhere....therefore a 'far behind' is not possible. I would like to see Canon to continue as they did with e.g. smaller FF-cams, more refined and quieter shutters, improved sensors. If they can figure out a mirrorless camera with an OVF and/or the usability of todays DSLRs then we will see something relevant. Todays mirrorless cams did not arrive where we are with DSLRs and the new features praised in mirrorless cams by far do not show as relevant as marketing wants us to believe. I found more negative things in mirrorless cams that needed a work around than in my years old DSLR, IMHO. And my DSLR has live view too, if needed, so what? And this experience was quite expensive to find out...