EOS 5D Mark IV To Use EOS C300 Mark II Technology? [CR2]

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Just shows what happens when a company actually tries to do the best that they can manage instead of trying to do their best to hold back as much as possible and still sell just enough to not create issues.

XC10:
$2499
4k 30P
1" sensor
slow, fixed lens

URSA mini:
$2999
4k 60p
150fps HD
has an APS-C size sensor
takes Canon EF lenses
looks to have more pro connectors and features

A little embarrassing for Canon I would think..

Historically these cameras have been very impressive until you have to use them.

The specs are incredible though. If you're after specs rather than ergonomics and image quality it will deliver. Can't say what else it will deliver.

True, but the ergonomics look quite promising this time and considering that the early XC10 samples looked pretty poor..... maybe it still won't quite match C300 II, but 5k is doable for some avg joes and 20k pretty darn few unless serious film-making is their primary game (and 3k even more for many, of course now giving up those nice 3 stops of DR though).

 

[M_S]

http://www.canonwatch.com/cw4-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-coming-as-2-versions-5d-mark-iv-mark-ivc-28mp-vs-18mp/

Well..... There ya go. 5D4. 5DC. They're a comin'. 5DC looking to perhaps have the DR specs of the new C300 mkIi

Let the CR sh!t hit the fan in 3...2...1....

Yep. That looks like not what I was expecting it to be. At all.

 

[PureClassA]

Good or bad?

http://www.canonwatch.com/cw4-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-coming-as-2-versions-5d-mark-iv-mark-ivc-28mp-vs-18mp/

Well..... There ya go. 5D4. 5DC. They're a comin'. 5DC looking to perhaps have the DR specs of the new C300 mkIi

Let the CR sh!t hit the fan in 3...2...1....

Yep. That looks like not what I was expecting it to be. At all.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Oh wow it's a CW4 too so it might well be for real.

Also, it's not clear that the 28MP 5D4 won't have the high DR, maybe it would. If so. then you'd have one heck of a stills body. 28MP, exmor DR, 12fps FF, nice AF, wow. Sounds nicer than the D810, close enough MP count and way more fps and perhaps similar sensor performance. If not, then it kinda bleh IMO, although for those who don't care about DR it would be like getting a super 1DX, in many ways, for a 5D3 price which would surely excite some.

And a super fine stills/video combo body (sure the MP count is a shame, but you can't always have your cake and eat it too, it's a reasonable tech limit at this point, it's just hard to as yet manage 28MP and truly top video quality and if they don't cripple the video at all then that would be some exciting camera to own).

So wow, those could be two VERY exciting cameras. The 5D4c for sure (again barring marketing doesn't hold back some critical usability feature or have them bungle the output quality) and the 5D4 too if it has the new sensor.

It's a little surprising they didn;t find a way to do a on-chip binned decent if not perfect 4k on the 5D but whatever, maybe too much heat or something.

anyway, perhaps the first news pointing to some really exciting new stuff again for once
a lot of potential promise here

 

[M_S]

Good or bad?

http://www.canonwatch.com/cw4-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-coming-as-2-versions-5d-mark-iv-mark-ivc-28mp-vs-18mp/

Well..... There ya go. 5D4. 5DC. They're a comin'. 5DC looking to perhaps have the DR specs of the new C300 mkIi

Let the CR sh!t hit the fan in 3...2...1....

Yep. That looks like not what I was expecting it to be. At all.

I expected it to be in one single body, not two. Was all excited over this and thought "they could have done it right this time". This is of course still a rumour, but if there is any truth to this, then I will look at other options.

 

[expatinasia]

My first reaction is wow, if the 5D Mark IV is going to have 12 FPS what on earth is the 1DX2 going to have!!

I hope they do not split the 1DX2 into two different cameras, would be nice to have everything in one body.

 

[PureClassA]

I think the days of the split 1 bodies are done. 1dX2 and 1DC2 doesnt make sense anymore with a dedicated 5 body for cinema unless they intend it to fit between the mkII C100 and C300 bodies... But that doesnt really make a lot of sense either. It almost feels like Canon is throwing a lot of spaghetti against the kitchen wall to see what sticks. Apart from the flurry of new camera bodies, now it seems all these bodies are going to be even more frustrating to buy thanks to such disparity with the sensors. As of now, it looks as if the new video cameras have this great new sensor tech with 15 stops of DR .... But the new still cameras like the 5DSR that's supposed to be for amazing lanscapes... Does NOT!

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Of course another reading of it, why the higher MP stuff has no option for more DR is that maybe they found a way to just barely fit the dual-gain circuitry into 18MP sized FF photosites on 500nm fab but can't fit the circuits onto photosites the size as on 7D2,5Ds,5D4? That would a bit unfortunate, since you'd be locked at 18MP max FF and closer to 6MP max APS-C then for high DR. But who knows, just wild speculation.

 

[PureClassA]

Of course another reading of it, why the higher MP stuff has no option for more DR is that maybe they found a way to just barely fit the dual-gain circuitry into 18MP sized FF photosites on 500nm fab but can't fit the circuits onto photosites the size as on 7D2,5Ds,5D4? That would a bit unfortunate, since you'd be locked at 18MP max FF and closer to 6MP max APS-C then for high DR. But who knows, just wild speculation.

That is actually a really astute observation and seems rather plausible, although I'm not a micro-electronics expert when it comes to the limitation of sensor design.

Obviously they are still running the 500nm fabs if nothing else to produce cinema sensors, which I guess is fine considering 4k is only 8MP or so. And I also assume it was likely cheaper to tool those older fabs up for the new ADC system rather than the newer fabs that make smaller pixels we are seeing now. Good call.

 

[LonelyBoy]

How is Canon going to do 15 stops of DR with a 14bit CR2 file?

A .cr2 is essentially a .tiff, so afaik no problem storing 16 bits there w/o any further changes. Magic Lantern chose .dng as their dual_iso format because it's a documented standard, but their output is 16bit already.

Right. So CR2 either becomes 16bit (it was previously 12bit) or there is a CR3. This will impact file sizes in addition to any megapixel increase.

So even if Canon's DR solves your complaint you'll have something more to complain about? I'm shocked.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

A curious thought:

OK so say reading dual-gain takes 2x the processing so they can do 18MP dual at 12fps or 28-32MP at 12fps old style. First, is 6fps that bad if could mean getting a touch better than Exmor DR? The 12fps and less DR could've been left for 1DX2.

Second, you say OK what about the top quality video? They can just barely read 4k off the 18MP chip using full reads without melting or needing too much processing power. Fair enough. BUT who said they have to produce FF video? By far most movies and video has been shot at Super35/APS-C type sizes so why not give it a 28-32MP sensor and then just read a small APS-C center portion out of it for the top quality full read video?

I could be wrong, but might more people be most excited by:
28-32MP with 15 stops DR
6fps
APS-C top flight 4k video and top video features

than:
18MP with 15 stops DR
12 fps
FF top flight 4k video and top video features
(this is still exciting, but certainly not qute as impressive for landscape and wildlife stills as the first option)

or:
28MP with same old 2007 level DR
12 fps
average video
(especially since they could make a 1DX2 still for speed for those who really want the 12fps?)

or they could make my top one and the bottom 5D4 instead of the middle 5D4c and bottom 5D4?

Is it marketing not wanting to deliver more than one or two items well in any given body nonsense?
They think people would like the middle option more than my first one?
They are using 500nm and can only just barely fit dual gain circuits at 18MP FF scale and simply couldn't make dual gain read at any higher resolution?
Something else?

Of course the rumor might be pure BS and then all this is whatever.

 

[StudentOfLight]

I think the days of the split 1 bodies are done. 1dX2 and 1DC2 doesnt make sense anymore with a dedicated 5 body for cinema unless they intend it to fit between the mkII C100 and C300 bodies... But that doesnt really make a lot of sense either. It almost feels like Canon is throwing a lot of spaghetti against the kitchen wall to see what sticks. Apart from the flurry of new camera bodies, now it seems all these bodies are going to be even more frustrating to buy thanks to such disparity with the sensors. As of now, it looks as if the new video cameras have this great new sensor tech with 15 stops of DR .... But the new still cameras like the 5DSR that's supposed to be for amazing lanscapes... Does NOT!

“You don't know the power of the dark side.” - Darth Vader

 

[Jose]

I'm afraid that sensorwise the 5DIV is going to be just a 5DIII with 28 mpx. I don't care for 12fps for me 6 is more than enough, I don't care for 4k video (although i won't complain). What I need is a 5D body with a sensor that can record scenes with a wide dynamic range.
For me it will be unforgivable that canon, having finally the technology to make a 5DIV with more mpx more DR and better autofocus, will make us wait for the 5DV to get it, but that is exactly what they are going to do.

 

[PureClassA]

Yup, just rumors as usual.... but we're reacting to them just as we always do ;D

 

[LOALTD]

But, but, all these friendly folks on the forums insist that more than 12-stops isn't necessary.


Kind of like how friendly Nikon folks insisted that more than 12MP wasn't necessary...until the D800 came out.


In all seriousness though, this is exciting. If this camera delivers on DR and video, I may stay with Canon rather than switching to Sony. This is your last stand Canon, make it a good one!

It is funny how excited all those trashing the 'Droners' are the second their is some talk about Canon possibly getting even just a trace more DR than Exmor! ;D ;D ;D ;D :

Kind of like how Canon didn't need to produce a camera with 36MP until it had one with 50MP?

Let me summarise the situation with said people:

Any measurement or statistic where Canon has the better number or statistic is important (until Canon is behind) and vital and any measurement or statistic where Canon trails is unimportant (until Canon is in front.)

Oooh, I get it now