Focus problems with the Canon 7DII?

[candc]

The same things were said after the release of the 70D

And the 7D

And the 40D.

And yet - I must be such a lucky bloke - I bought a 40D; and a 7D; and a 70D; and a 7D Mk II, and they all focus brilliantly.

What are the odds?

there is an issue with at least some 70d's having af problems where using a fast lens and the center point the camera would go way off. maybe this is the same thing? just because his af issue seems unlikely that does not mean its not real.

 

[East Wind Photography]

So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?

Yes. A 7D Mk II isn't a beginner's camera.

Agreed as well. There are more complex systems in the 7D2 than AFMA. Any user of an advanced camera system needs to study the manual a few times to get it adjusted for their equipment and type of shooting.

 

[Ryan85]

At this point if I was you I'd restore the camera to factory defaults. Make sure your lens is on AF. Take some shots in one shot of a still subject. See how your results are. Then switch it to ai servo set and shoot a moving subject again. See how that works. Try different AF zone modes, single point, zone AF etc. see how your results are. Then set up back button focus and repeat those steps and see if that makes a difference. Put it on the green full auto mode see how that does. Then you can see if a certain thing isn't working correctly and start eliminating some things to see what's going on. If your images are slightly out of focus that's when we need to look at afma. That would be my approach for what it's worth.

 

[Loswr]

At this point if I was you I'd restore the camera to factory defaults. Make sure your lens is on AF. Take some shots in one shot of a still subject. See how your results are. Then switch it to ai servo set and shoot a moving subject again. See how that works. Try different AF zone modes, single point, zone AF etc. see how your results are. Then set up back button focus and repeat those steps and see if that makes a difference. Put it on the green full auto mode see how that does. Then you can see if a certain thing isn't working correctly and start eliminating some things to see what's going on. If your images are slightly out of focus that's when we need to look at afma. That would be my approach for what it's worth.

There's actually a very simple way to determine if AFMA would be useful to correct a front- or back-focus issue. No doubt a self-proclaimed expert who's done camera testing many, many times is familiar with that simple test.

 

[Ryan85]

At this point if I was you I'd restore the camera to factory defaults. Make sure your lens is on AF. Take some shots in one shot of a still subject. See how your results are. Then switch it to ai servo set and shoot a moving subject again. See how that works. Try different AF zone modes, single point, zone AF etc. see how your results are. Then set up back button focus and repeat those steps and see if that makes a difference. Put it on the green full auto mode see how that does. Then you can see if a certain thing isn't working correctly and start eliminating some things to see what's going on. If your images are slightly out of focus that's when we need to look at afma. That would be my approach for what it's worth.

There's actually a very simple way to determine if AFMA would be useful to correct a front- or back-focus issue. No doubt a self-proclaimed expert who's done camera testing many, many times is familiar with that simple test.

Lol. I'm not a expert, I'd like to know.

 

[weixing]

Turning off MFA when shooting at a ruler seemed to correct focusing with very wide apertures on a non-moving subject.

So this morning, I went out to redo my servo sports test, with a different BRAND NEW Canon 7Dii, same lens 24-70 2.8 (which I know is working on my 5Diii).

More soft focusing.

Im upset about this, thats 2 Canon 7Dii Bodies in a row. Ill have access to two more later this week. Ive taken a couple thousand shots with 2 different 7Diis, about 90% or so are no good.

This is what it looks like:

Hi,
Hmm... I'm not sure, but look like it's seem too out of focus to be an AFMA issue... just wonder how big the error require to get this out of focus?? May be you should post the original jpeg with all the info intact (such as AF points) for us to take a look.

By the way, what's your settings on the "AI Servo 1st image priority" and "AI Servo 2nd image priority"??

Have a nice day.

 

[MichaelTheMaven]

The Canon 7Dii isn't a beginners camera? Thats funny. I hear this a lot, never made any sense. Its like saying that someone who can afford a 7Dii isn't allowed to buy one unless they can prove they are a pro. Beginning photographers will buy the best camera they personally can afford, not necessarily the cheapest one. There is no connection between experience level and what they can afford.

I admit, I am surprised how many of you believe that MFA is part of the normal Canon experience. I love Canon, but I know when something isn't working right.

MFA is for specific tweaking under certain circumstances, not to get the camera to focus correctly out of the box and it is absolutely not something Canon recommends to all of its camera owners, as many on this thread have advocated.

From Canon about MFA and the expectation of acceptable tolerance: http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/quickguides/CDLC_Accurate_EOS_AF_QuickGuide.pdf

 

[meywd]

The Canon 7Dii isn't a beginners camera? Thats funny. I hear this a lot, never made any sense. Its like saying that someone who can afford a 7Dii isn't allowed to buy one unless they can prove they are a pro. Beginning photographers will buy the best camera they personally can afford, not necessarily the cheapest one. There is no connection between experience level and what they can afford.

I admit, I am surprised how many of you believe that MFA is part of the normal Canon experience. I love Canon, but I know when something isn't working right.

MFA is for specific tweaking under certain circumstances, not to get the camera to focus correctly out of the box and it is absolutely not something Canon recommends to all of its camera owners, as many on this thread have advocated.

From Canon about MFA and the expectation of acceptable tolerance: http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/quickguides/CDLC_Accurate_EOS_AF_QuickGuide.pdf

Even if they can afford it, they can't expect to use the advance features without reading up ahead on how to use these features, its not about skill level, its about experience with such cameras or features, anyway you can't say that AFMA is the reason or not unless you do a proper testing as been previously mentioned, start with a reset, one shot AF and work your way up

 

[MichaelTheMaven]

I have done hundreds of test shots. For the record, I have also owned the 40D, 7D and 70D and did not see the same issue.

Maybe my eyes and brain both need MFA

 

[Ryan85]

If it's that out of focus like the shot you shared above its not afma it's something else. That's way out of focus.

 

[Loswr]

MFA is for specific tweaking under certain circumstances, not to get the camera to focus correctly out of the box and it is absolutely not something Canon recommends to all of its camera owners, as many on this thread have advocated.

Then I'm sure you never store a camera with the battery installed, or carry the camera attached to a tripod, because Canon recommends against both.

Canon also recommends against using Spot AF with moving subjects, but that's just what another 'expert YouTube reviewer' did when testing the 5DIII in a 'sports test' and getting a poor hit rate of not much over 60%.

 

[RodS57]

Wow if he never AFMA'd the cameras he was testing I guess that pretty much invalidates the tests.

Invalid tests? But...but...he does a lot of testing for his YouTube channel. If that doesn't make him an expert, what does??

Without taking pot shots at Michael
I think it is reasonable to expect a new camera to be calibrated correctly;
I believe there will be copy variation but what does canon need to do to minimize this variation.
I think, based on the posts I've read that there may be a surprisingly high percentage of 7D2's coming off the assembly line with defects.
And yes, I understand that six people with problems usually make a lot more noise than 100 people without problems. In any forum it is virtually impossible to gauge the real extend of the problem but I believe a problem does exist.

For me, this is the only body I have that gives the option to do AFMA. I like having the ability to do these adjustments. So far all these 'can't focus correctly' posts have left me in sort of a state of confusion. Before, if the shot was bad then I screwed up. Now I can blame it on the crappy 7D2

Rod

Rod it is true that most of the consumer level cameras do not have AFMA adjustment up to and including the 60D. The 70D replacement included this capability due to consumer pressure. All of the pro and semi pro cameras have this feature. I have friends that have consumer cameras and dont know their equipment is off. They just assume the lens quality is bad or worse just assume it's sharp not knowing any better and proceed to over sharpen on their computer.

The thing about AFMA is that if you use a higher F-stop you can mask the error and some people just assume that their lens works better at F8 and F11.

I dont have one single lens both old and new that have the same AFMA setting. A difference of 2 or 3 points wide open (especially with fast lenses) can make a huge difference in sharpness and more so with a crop sensor since the error is also magnified.

So for anyone to say that it should come sharp from the factory is just not possible unless the factory has AFMA or mechanically adjusted the camera to the EXACT same lens before shipping it. In the old days or with consumer cameras today, you have to send both the camera and lens to Canon and have them match them up, or all of your lenses to the same camera. AFMA lets us do it any time we need to.

Not to say that Canon should not be calibrating to some reference lens on the assembly line, but it's not reasonable to expect a factory camera to be dead on with every lens out there.

No argument here.
Do I expect to take a new camera out of the box and get reasonably sharp shots? Yes I do but with copy variation this becomes pure luck and is pretty much an unrealistic expectation. On my T3i the 75-300 kit lens rivals the 70-300L I purchased in terms of perceived sharpness.
I understand what AFMA does and am glade I have that option.
I think the reference lens would be a good idea for canon. They could check the body against it and determine where the body stands. If the body is +3 they could set the 'apply to all lenses' value to +3. For people who understand AFMA they have a starting point. For people that don't it doesn't matter anyway. IMO.

Rod

 

[Ryan85]

Just to repeat what has been said a few times. Reset the camera to factory defaults and try again. Either, despite the long odds, you have received two defective bodies or you've managed to completely screw up the setting on this one. Nothing in that photo is in focus. You are way out of spec, even for a lens that needs an AFMA of twenty.

Honestly, this looks like an intentional failure to me but I tend to be a bit cynical at times. I'd say that lens is focused several feet in front of the model.

+1

 

[Lee Jay]

Honestly, this looks like an intentional failure to me but I tend to be a bit cynical at times. I'd say that lens is focused several feet in front of the model.

edit ..... When a camera has trouble tracking focus on an object coming towards the lens it typically back-focuses, it doesn't jump to a point three feet in front of a moving subject.

I had that happen on one combo - 5D + 35/1.4L. The lens focused accurately on my other bodies and all my other lenses focused accurately on the 5D. It wasn't close. In the shot below, the focus point is right on his face. The error here is about 6 depths of field, and that was typical and consistent.

I sent both body and lens in for calibration (both were in warranty) and haven't had a problem since, and none of my other lenses have either. Weird, huh?

 

[Loswr]

So no one thinks his current plan of buying more cameras and hoping one gives better results is a good idea??

FWIW, I've seen plenty of correctly focused shots of moving subjects taken with the 7DII to believe this is a pervasive defect. My bet is still on user error, though really bad luck can't be ruled out.

 

[chimperjake]

I have been shooting with the 7DM2 for about 2 weeks now. pretty much every frame I have shot with it, I feel is "soft". It should be noted that I have been using the 1dx since 2012 so I am very used to the AF system. I spent the majority of the day today looking at focus charts with my various lenses, and attempting micro adjustments. At the end of the day I contacted CPS support and I will be sending it back for warranty service. From what I see it looks like alot of people have "good copies" of the camera, I hope Canon can fix mine. I was waiting for this camera for a long time :-\

 

[jhwsfla]

Had mine three weeks and almost all were soft. Sometimes it looked like the focus was somewhere else. Multiple lens setup etc. Contacted Canon they had me reset everything and nothing helped. Asked if there was a hard reset and they said no. (If you look were the battery goes in there is a plug there but I didn't explore more.) So option was return it or send to Canon Va. Opted to return it tomorrow. btw serial number started with 02202100XXXX maybe there is a pattern..

 

[chimperjake]

I don't want to call BS if the guy has an actual problem, but, I think it's all a bit odd.

Here is one from this afternoon with the 7D2. A Northern Shoveler. If you haven't seen on of these fly, it sort of resembles a rocket that is missing one of it's tail-fins. In this picture it is flying at 60+ mph against a complex background and I have half a dozen in this sequence that are all in focus. These are at 1/2500th and there is still motion blur to give you an idea of the speed. What more can you ask? The 7D2 isn't perfect by any stretch but it is a focusing monster.

Nice Shot....I have noticed images look extremely clear through the viewfinder, and the focus system seems to be the same, if not better than the 1dx, the issue is every single image regardless of lens seems soft. In DPP the focus points are spot on but the image is soft. I will post back Canon's reply when my camera is returned. Very frustrating.

 

[chimperjake]

Had mine three weeks and almost all were soft. Sometimes it looked like the focus was somewhere else. Multiple lens setup etc. Contacted Canon they had me reset everything and nothing helped. Asked if there was a hard reset and they said no. (If you look were the battery goes in there is a plug there but I didn't explore more.) So option was return it or send to Canon Va. Opted to return it tomorrow. btw serial number started with 02202100XXXX maybe there is a pattern..

Mine starts with 02202000xxxx.....nice to know I am not crazy

 

[chimperjake]

Had mine three weeks and almost all were soft. Sometimes it looked like the focus was somewhere else. Multiple lens setup etc. Contacted Canon they had me reset everything and nothing helped. Asked if there was a hard reset and they said no. (If you look were the battery goes in there is a plug there but I didn't explore more.) So option was return it or send to Canon Va. Opted to return it tomorrow. btw serial number started with 02202100XXXX maybe there is a pattern..

Mine starts with 02202000xxxx.....nice to know I am not crazy

01202000XXXX for me. I guess mine is an earlier run?

I have to admit I was a bit disappointed in the crop image quality after a decade of full frame. I don't have any trouble telling 5D2/3 files from 7D2 at 100% in lightroom. I suppose I knew that would be the case but the reality is still a bit disappointing. It seems like Canon should be a little further along with the IQ by now. But, I'm getting shots that I just couldn't get with the 5D3 and my lenses so "it is what it is". It is an absolute hoot to shoot with but IQ is not up to full frame specs. Apparently the laws of physics are alive and well.

You can't really tell much of a difference on BIF bomber runs like the Shoveler I posted above just because that photo has so much going on. You can really see the difference on low light still animal photos. They definitely don't have the crispness and clarity of my 5D3 photos. It may be that the 7D2 is out-resolving my lenses. My 400 5.6l only hits about a .75 on the MTF charts. That may not be high enough for the 7D2. If it wasn't December I'd be able to do much more extensive testing.

Hopefully Canon will get you squared away. I think it's a keeper.

I agree I think it will be a keeper after its sorted out. I love the ergonomics and as I said in a previous post, I own an 1dx and I think the dual digic 6's are a noticeable improvement over even the 1dx AF system. Like you said they just are not crisp. Based on your shoveler shot, mine are definately noticeably worse, however. I also have a 400 5.6, a 600 f4 is usm, a 70-200 2.8 is ii, a 24-70 II and results are about the same with all lenses so I dont think it is a resolution problem.