Here are the first images and specifications of the Canon EOS R and the new RF mount lenses

Keith_Reeder

I really don't mind offending trolls.
Feb 8, 2014
957
469
60
Blyth, NE England
but, it’s a very nice solution to just move the point wherever and not, like Nikon, where you have to scroll through hundreds of points...

I'm still a little lairy about how easy it will be to move around the AF point field quickly though. The spec sheet says:
AF points can be moved by touching the screen or using the Main Dial, Quick Control Dial or cross keys.

but they appear to be pretty small controls for man hands and sausage fingers to contend with..!

;)
 

tiggy@mac.com

R5
CR Pro
Jan 20, 2014
678
551
Thetford, VT
www.camnostic.com
So. Thoughts about adaptors.

One of the things a new mount brings is the ability to 100% control what lenses are produced for the system, and even adaptors for autofocus lenses.

Right now, the EF protocol dates back to the 1980s and even those who haven't officially licenced it can reverse engineer it easily.

Now days it's trivial for a manufacturer to use encrypted communication between the body and the lens that is both hard to crack and very easy to litigate against if people have reversed it.

If I were Canon I would make ALL RF lenses *and adaptors* require this communication, meaning the EF lenses will only work with the official Canon RF adaptors.


Now, the good news is this won't be a problem for legacy manual focus glass. Those adaptors will work regardless.

But adaptors for Nikon lenses etc, or third party EF -> R adaptors may be unlikely.



That would be one thing that would make me consider ditching Canon. I love my Canon glass, but I love my Sigma glass enough I wouldn’t want to be tethered to a system cut off from that lens innovation.
 
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Viggo

EOS R5
Dec 13, 2010
4,715
1,388
That would be one thing that would make me consider ditching Canon. I love my Canon glass, but I love my Sigma glass enough I wouldn’t want to be tethered to a system cut off from that lens innovation.
Wonder if Sigma lenses become usable on Canon with DPAF or if it’s the same as today with DSLR and PhaseAF via VF.
 

cayenne

EOS R6
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,553
536
I laugh at all the old people here still talking about resolution in terms of how big a print you can make. Go back to your darkroom, grandpa! :)

I do primarily images for online. And with 5K+ screens (14 megapixel) becoming the norm images for screen display a 24 megapixel sensor doesn't end up giving you a great deal of crop flexibility. 40-50 megapixel sensors give much better options for cropping and/or downsampling images to be displayed at their best on a retina-style screen.

People tend to still make "real money" by sellng wall art.....you know, the stuff good enough to occupy a permanent place on the walls of your living abode?

Web shooting is transitory, but quality art for walls, lasts...and often brings in high $$'s.

Now...get off my lawn!!
;)
JK.

cayenne
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,405
3,745
Irving, Texas
What the f can have 70+ layers. I can't even imagine. I've worked I think up to 12 or 14. But why you'd need 70? You really can't route those signals in 60, or 20?

The most layers in a printed circuit board is 129, and it was created and released by Denso Corporation (Japan) in Chita, Aichi, Japan, on 13 June 2012. So, yes, somebody can.
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
The most layers in a printed circuit board is 129, and it was created and released by Denso Corporation (Japan) in Chita, Aichi, Japan, on 13 June 2012. So, yes, somebody can.

The “you really can’t” was a question, i.e. he was asking why 70 were needed, not if it’s possible to route with that many layers.

If you’re constrained for space and have a bunch of traces which need isolation, adding ground planes is an easy solution. Most boards I see these days have 20 layers or fewer.
 

Bambel

EOS M50
Jun 12, 2018
39
33
After reading trough 30 pages.. some thoughts:

Market position
I think it's obvious that the R line is far away from the M line and more close to Canons FF DSLRs. And R lenses obviously more in line with EF than EF-M. If the body will really only be named "R" without number, i guess we will see more segmentation later. And like the M at the time it's a first shot and they will listen to feedback before developing a different form factor.

Lenses
Complete opposit of EF-M and a boom like 28-70/2. Would the same be (economically) possible in EF? AFAIK a lens must use a retrofocus/reverse tele for FLs shorter than the registration distance. On EF, 28 is within that range, on R it's not. All in all an impressive lineup. Maybe we will see cheaper lenses later, like variable aperture zooms and 2,8 pancakes or so.

Mount
I was a bit surprised by that move but if it enables lenses like the 2,0 zoom it seems worth the hassle. Also, we have to wait and see what canon has officially to say about the benefits of the new mount. A shorter mount is only usefull on short focal lengths, so i guess we won't see any big whites in R anytime soon. On the other hand, Canon could someday offer a EF to R conversion simply by changing the part of the lens body that the mount sits on or by bolting on a fixed, sealed and calibrated extention tube.

B.
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,405
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Irving, Texas
The “you really can’t” was a question, i.e. he was asking why 70 were needed, not if it’s possible to route with that many layers.

If you’re constrained for space and have a bunch of traces which need isolation, adding ground planes is an easy solution. Most boards I see these days have 20 layers or fewer.

Aerospace applications and military were our area. My brothers are the board design guys. I'm (was) the mfg. equipment and automation guy, and process troubleshooter.
 

jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
CR Pro
Aug 25, 2015
1,410
889
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
That would be one thing that would make me consider ditching Canon. I love my Canon glass, but I love my Sigma glass enough I wouldn’t want to be tethered to a system cut off from that lens innovation.

Sigma EF lenses would continue to be useable via the EF adaptors. But it may be unlikely that Sigma would be allowed to produce RF lenses. At least not for a few years.
 

tpatana

EOS 5D Mark IV
Nov 1, 2012
1,546
269
Yes I think so. The M-Fn Bar couldn't be any other thing on the body!

I'm kinda disappointed on the options. Those sound.... non-creative. If they add strange slide&touch&push -bar, it should do some cool things. Zoom-control would be interesting feature, assuming power-zoom lenses.

Or maybe EVF zoom control to help confirm focus. There's no reason why you wouldn't be able to zoom on EVF, snap to 10x and back with a swipe.
 

tiggy@mac.com

R5
CR Pro
Jan 20, 2014
678
551
Thetford, VT
www.camnostic.com
The shot below is from a Halloween storytelling lit by a hearth fire. Exposure was 1/13 s, f/2.8, ISO 102400, processed with DxO Prime NR. At web size, it's still marginal. My 1D X locked focus without a problem, despite it being -3 EV.

I really can't see -6 EV AF being useful in 'lots of situations', but sure, once in a while it might produce a usable shot. Better to have it than not, of course.


It isn’t very often, but sometimes I find myself with the 5D4 needing to use a different light source at roughly the same distance in order to focus for a shot I’m taking. This is typically outdoors in the evening, shooting a creature. This works maybe one out of five times. So I will follow up by manually focusing, racking the focus as slightly as I can from one direction, through the proper focus, and onward a few extra ticks. This might give me eight or 10 shots, and later I can pick the one that is the best focus. That works about half or 2/3 of the time.

For still subjects, these tactics work for the most part. But I was trying to do things like photograph bats when they come out in the evening, and of course that just wasn’t working.

I very much appreciate -6ev.
 

mpb001

EOS 90D
Sep 10, 2016
131
118
I think that Canon has shown some innovation with this new camera. Although it does not sport a native EF mount, the EF lens adapters are innovative, like with the drop in filter mount and the control ring mount. Even Nikon could not think of that. Then there are two small, but important things that both Nikon and Canon did get right over Sony. The inclusion of a top LCD and making the camera with a better and longer grip. That's what you get from the two top camera companies, cameras, designed with a photographers needs in mind.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,935
Canada
Wonder if Sigma lenses become usable on Canon with DPAF or if it’s the same as today with DSLR and PhaseAF via VF.
This is one of the reasons I would not touch a Sigma or a Tamron lens that is not “dock compatible”.... with those ones, you can easily get firmware updates.....
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
Aerospace applications and military were our area. My brothers are the board design guys. I'm (was) the mfg. equipment and automation guy, and process troubleshooter.
This is now fantastically off topic, but it’s interesting so I’m going to keep at it.

That is also my industry, in particular military comms (C4ISR). The customer is often very sensitive to layer count, because there is a relationship to yield. It’s obviously not the end all be all; a 20 layer board with micro vias and sequential laminations is probably riskier than an 80 layer simple board, but still, they don’t like it.
 

applecider

EOS RP
May 20, 2012
488
43
Portland Oregon, Cape Cod
If this cam is the prosumer camera, which way or ways will the pro bodies go?

Will a DX type have like 24 MP and a high frame rate say greater than 20 and the 5 series equivalent go for high MP and lower FPS, say 8-10 and trickle down tech, or option B might we actually get a 50MP DX with a 15+ FPS.?

Option B is too good to be true, and not in canons method of operation, and lower lighting situations sporting events etc will probably still require the lower number larger pixel solution.

And of course when?
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,405
3,745
Irving, Texas
This is now fantastically off topic, but it’s interesting so I’m going to keep at it.

That is also my industry, in particular military comms (C4ISR). The customer is often very sensitive to layer count, because there is a relationship to yield. It’s obviously not the end all be all; a 20 layer board with micro vias and sequential laminations is probably riskier than an 80 layer simple board, but still, they don’t like it.

I've not worked in the PCB industry since 2003 when it seems most of the board shops I serviced moved off shore. I worked for KCA (Anaheim), Multek (Irvine), and then for an equipment and material supplier/servicer in Orange (Circuit Image Systems). Also worked for a contractor I can't mention. I think Korean Circuits of America (KCA) is barely hanging on in the U.S. I'm not sure Multek is even still around. I believe their operations in Irvine moved to Guadalajara years ago, and CIS went bankrupt in 2004, I think. The founder of CIS (Marv Bain) is now deceased.

I actually built a direct impingement copper plating prototype (my design) in 2001. You know why that's important when it comes to vias.
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
I've not worked in the PCB industry since 2003 when it seems most of the board shops I serviced moved off shore. I worked for KCA (Anaheim), Multek (Irvine), and then for an equipment and material supplier/servicer in Orange (Circuit Image Systems). Also worked for a contractor I can't mention. I think Korean Circuits of America (KCA) is barely hanging on in the U.S. I'm not sure Multek is even still around. I believe their operations in Irvine moved to Guadalajara years ago, and CIS went bankrupt in 2004, I think. The founder of CIS (Marv Bain) is now deceased.

I actually built a direct impingement copper plating prototype (my design) in 2001. You know why that's important when it comes to vias.

I don’t know any of those shops, but we still have some regional ones like Hughes Circuits, Streamline, and TTM (was VIA systems). There are actually dozens of shops, of highly variable capability :)
 
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