Here are the Results From Our Poll Regarding Camera Innovation Perception at Canon

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
5,625
2,576
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Don Haines said:
I will probably get roasted by the forum members for saying this, but most of the time the full auto mode will do as good of a job as most of us will. It’s the more difficult situations where manual intervention (including semi auto modes) where our skills shine......
There is a reason why the "P" stands for Professional.
 

3dit0r

EOS M50
Dec 4, 2017
47
10
I too was surprised when I voted that the DSLR vote was so high, I can’t see that Canon are far behind on that; in which area? If you watch, e.g., Dustin Abbot’s latest video series comparing the 5D mark IV to the Sony A7riii, what’s striking is how incredibly evenly matched they are overall, mildly beating each other in certain areas, but overall, about equal.

Of course, the A7riii is a mirrorless camera, which brings me to the mirrorless innovation vote score. Think about that above Dustin Abbot video comparison in that context and it shows a worrying lack of innovation from Canon on that front - Sony’s mirrorless tech is already head to head with one of Canon’s top DSLRs, and bests it in some ways. The A9 goes head to head with the 1Dx mark II and bests it in some ways. Can Canon claim it has a mirrorless which can compete with its own top DSLRs? This is where the real lack of innovation resides.

To me, areas where Canon lack innovation compared to other brands include: mirrorless tech in general, IBIS, perhaps a slight improvement in DR (but this is over exaggerated on the current generation, I think).

OTOH, DPAF still rules for video AF and their touch screen control on the 5Dmkiv is the best I’ve experienced. Ergonomics are fantastic (weight could be shaved a little though) and menu system is excellent. Lens choice is second to none and colour science is still probably the best in the industry.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,645
2,159
3dit0r said:
Can Canon claim it has a mirrorless which can compete with its own top DSLRs? This is where the real lack of innovation resides.
'Top dSLRs' are generally FF, and Canon doesn't yet offer a FF MILC. You are suggesting that they can't develop a competitive FF MILC, based on what? What we do know is that Canon can develop a very competitive APS-C MILC, at least in the minds of buyers.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,923
Canada
neuroanatomist said:
3dit0r said:
Can Canon claim it has a mirrorless which can compete with its own top DSLRs? This is where the real lack of innovation resides.
'Top dSLRs' are generally FF, and Canon doesn't yet offer a FF MILC. You are suggesting that they can't develop a competitive FF MILC, based on what? What we do know is that Canon can develop a very competitive APS-C MILC, at least in the minds of buyers.
The M series is (obviously) Canon's into the world of mirrorless DSLR cameras. It is a crop camera, it is very successful, and it is a learning camera. By that, I mean that Canon, being a conservative company, is using the M series to learn about what sells and what does not, and how the various features/software works in the real world.

When (not if, WHEN) they come out with a FF camera, they should be able to hit the ground running. I would expect it to be competing with the 5D series, possibly the replacement to the 5DS.... However you look at it, the safe bet is that they will not come out with a FF mirrorless camera until it is BETTER than the mirrored equivalents....

There is a difference between lack of innovation and rushing in before you are ready. This is particularly true when you are dealing with a company that values reliability and stability more than others in the industry.....
 

9VIII

EOS 5D Mark IV
Feb 8, 2013
1,843
0
nonac said:
...appear to be listening to consumers and progressively getting better...
It's like a novice athlete, you see massive performance gains in your first year when you start from nothing, then most people give up once the easy gains are gone.
 
Aug 30, 2014
8
0
what if Canon innovation is so poor it promotes camera sales? eg 1 buys canon, 1 buys Nikon,, 1 buys Sony, 1 buys Fuji and one buys Olympus , 5 buys BUT Canon guy is frustrated with poor innovation and buys another and then another new camera . Suddenly Canon has majority market share from poor innovation with no new buyers in the system.

Just thinking aloud = no data
 

CanonFanBoy

Really O.K. Boomer
Jan 28, 2015
5,039
3,101
Irving, Texas
neuroanatomist said:
Don Haines said:
I will probably get roasted by the forum members for saying this, but most of the time the full auto mode will do as good of a job as most of us will.
My dSLR doesn't have a full auto mode. :'(
Neither does my LWRC. ;) Some will get the reference. Some won't.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,062
341
Vancouver, BC
Neil1000 said:
what if Canon innovation is so poor it promotes camera sales? eg 1 buys canon, 1 buys Nikon,, 1 buys Sony, 1 buys Fuji and one buys Olympus , 5 buys BUT Canon guy is frustrated with poor innovation and buys another and then another new camera . Suddenly Canon has majority market share from poor innovation with no new buyers in the system.

Just thinking aloud = no data
So, the hypothesis is that Canon customers are so frustrated with Canon products, that they buy three times as much hoping for a different result?

That seems like a bit of a stretch :D More so, because it's Canon, and Canon has relatively slow release cycles. I mean, if you were a 7D or a 5D or 1D shooter, you'd have to buy 3 of the same camera, hoping the next one was magically better :eek:

I'd actually argue that this is more likely with Sony, than Canon.

The only way it would work with Canon is someone buys an 80D, goes oh shoot, buys a 5D, goes oh shoot, and then buys a 1DX. I kinda doubt it 8)

Where it DOES happen though is Canon glass. I've seen a whole lot of people who genuinely want to improve their photography (as a hobby) go through a cycle of buying progressively better lenses, and by the time they're "finished", they own everything from the $50 kit lens to a full set of 2.8 zooms and a handful of L primes -- and everything in between.
 

CanonFanBoy

Really O.K. Boomer
Jan 28, 2015
5,039
3,101
Irving, Texas
Talys said:
Neil1000 said:
what if Canon innovation is so poor it promotes camera sales? eg 1 buys canon, 1 buys Nikon,, 1 buys Sony, 1 buys Fuji and one buys Olympus , 5 buys BUT Canon guy is frustrated with poor innovation and buys another and then another new camera . Suddenly Canon has majority market share from poor innovation with no new buyers in the system.

Just thinking aloud = no data
So, the hypothesis is that Canon customers are so frustrated with Canon products, that they buy three times as much hoping for a different result?

That seems like a bit of a stretch :D More so, because it's Canon, and Canon has relatively slow release cycles. I mean, if you were a 7D or a 5D or 1D shooter, you'd have to buy 3 of the same camera, hoping the next one was magically better :eek:

I'd actually argue that this is more likely with Sony, than Canon.

The only way it would work with Canon is someone buys an 80D, goes oh shoot, buys a 5D, goes oh shoot, and then buys a 1DX. I kinda doubt it 8)

Where it DOES happen though is Canon glass. I've seen a whole lot of people who genuinely want to improve their photography (as a hobby) go through a cycle of buying progressively better lenses, and by the time they're "finished", they own everything from the $50 kit lens to a full set of 2.8 zooms and a handful of L primes -- and everything in between.
I bought a T5i and went, "Oh shoot!" Then bought a 70D six months later and said, "Oh shoot!" At the same time I was buying EFs lenses left and right. Then I said, "Oh shoot! After spending all this money I could have already had my dream camera, the 5D Mark III. So I said, "Oh shoot!" and gave away almost all of that, bought my 5D Mark III and have been happy since.

I think it is the nature of this hobby. I'm just wondering how Talys knows me. Scary. ;)
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,062
341
Vancouver, BC
CanonFanBoy said:
I think it is the nature of this hobby. I'm just wondering how Talys knows me. Scary. ;)
hahahahaha! 8)

touché!

In hindsight, I regret buying boatloads of cheap EF lenses from Canon and almost every third party vendor that mostly made their way into Christmas presents (along with a T5i, LOL).

I bought a 70D also, but still have and use it (though only in my basement studio). It takes amazing shots, and because I "grew up" on crop bodies, I'm more used to them in terms of picking the right lens to get the perspective/composition that I'm looking for than I am with full frame. I've only recently taken that dive with 6D2, which I'm very happy with.

I'm slowly getting there though, and I have no doubt that at some point I'll be mostly FF.
 

9VIII

EOS 5D Mark IV
Feb 8, 2013
1,843
0
Talys said:
CanonFanBoy said:
I think it is the nature of this hobby. I'm just wondering how Talys knows me. Scary. ;)
hahahahaha! 8)

touché!

In hindsight, I regret buying boatloads of cheap EF lenses from Canon and almost every third party vendor that mostly made their way into Christmas presents (along with a T5i, LOL).

I bought a 70D also, but still have and use it (though only in my basement studio). It takes amazing shots, and because I "grew up" on crop bodies, I'm more used to them in terms of picking the right lens to get the perspective/composition that I'm looking for than I am with full frame. I've only recently taken that dive with 6D2, which I'm very happy with.

I'm slowly getting there though, and I have no doubt that at some point I'll be mostly FF.
I think this just goes to show how different people can be.
I bought an 1100D, kept reading about how awesome Full Frame is, bought a used 5D2, then traded it away after less than a year.
For my purposes the cheapest body that Canon has ever made is still effectively superior, that summer when I had both I just kept leaving the 5D2 at home and I couldn’t stand to think about how much I wasn’t using it.
My biggest regret is not getting a 6D instead of the 5D2, given that it’s lighter and smaller (and it has wi-fi), I may have been perfectly content with a 6D.
 

dak723

EOS R
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
435
9VIII said:
Talys said:
CanonFanBoy said:
I think it is the nature of this hobby. I'm just wondering how Talys knows me. Scary. ;)
hahahahaha! 8)

touché!

In hindsight, I regret buying boatloads of cheap EF lenses from Canon and almost every third party vendor that mostly made their way into Christmas presents (along with a T5i, LOL).

I bought a 70D also, but still have and use it (though only in my basement studio). It takes amazing shots, and because I "grew up" on crop bodies, I'm more used to them in terms of picking the right lens to get the perspective/composition that I'm looking for than I am with full frame. I've only recently taken that dive with 6D2, which I'm very happy with.

I'm slowly getting there though, and I have no doubt that at some point I'll be mostly FF.
I think this just goes to show how different people can be.
I bought an 1100D, kept reading about how awesome Full Frame is, bought a used 5D2, then traded it away after less than a year.
For my purposes the cheapest body that Canon has ever made is still effectively superior, that summer when I had both I just kept leaving the 5D2 at home and I couldn’t stand to think about how much I wasn’t using it.
My biggest regret is not getting a 6D instead of the 5D2, given that it’s lighter and smaller (and it has wi-fi), I may have been perfectly content with a 6D.
What camera works best for an individual depends on so many factors - perhaps most importantly - what do you shoot and how do you view (or what size do you print) your photos.

The 6D is a great camera and I had one for about 4 years. You can probably pick on up for a good price now. As for me, I found that a crop camera (the M5) gave me results that were just as good for a cheaper price and more importantly - much reduced size and weight. I shoot in daylight and outdoors and rarely print over 8 x 10 inches. The same shots taken with my 6D and my M5 were indistinguishable from one another, so the 6D (somewhat regrettably) was sold on Ebay and the M5 is now my primary camera. If I shot a lot indoors and low light - and printed larger - The 6D would definitely be my choice.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,062
341
Vancouver, BC
dak723 said:
What camera works best for an individual depends on so many factors - perhaps most importantly - what do you shoot and how do you view (or what size do you print) your photos.

The 6D is a great camera and I had one for about 4 years. You can probably pick on up for a good price now. As for me, I found that a crop camera (the M5) gave me results that were just as good for a cheaper price and more importantly - much reduced size and weight. I shoot in daylight and outdoors and rarely print over 8 x 10 inches. The same shots taken with my 6D and my M5 were indistinguishable from one another, so the 6D (somewhat regrettably) was sold on Ebay and the M5 is now my primary camera. If I shot a lot indoors and low light - and printed larger - The 6D would definitely be my choice.
That's an excellent point.

Until I became more interested in birds in flight, full frame was just not a big deal. Even though higher ISO was inferior on crop, it was something I rarely encountered because I'd augment light; I don't think I shot over ISO 640 for years. But you can't do that out in the wild, or at least not very easily :D So, to get the 1/2000 - 4000 shutter speeds, especially in good but non-ideal conditions, I really wanted a full frame camera, but held off until Canon popped a flippy screen model (not that I need it for birds; for other purposes).

Frankly, the 6D2 is very nearly everything I want from a camera, just like the 100-400LII is very nearly everything I want from a birding lens. It would be nice to have more resolution, because that would allow shooting subjects a little further away on a comfortable, handheld lens.

Eventually, when I get a super tele, I would like 2 FF bodies, so that I set up at a location, and have one on a gimbal and one that I shoot handheld. Or, if the 7D3 is truly amazing in ability to resolve ISOs up to 3200, perhaps that would be a consideration.

But at the end of the day, I'm at the point in equipment where I will not get visibly better shots out of a better sensor. Mostly, that's going to require better composition/lighting/direction for one type of photography, and better field skills for the other. And more time for photography, which no amount of gear can give me :)