How (and Why) I Took the Shot #1: Overlook

[thepancakeman]

BTW, this series is being requested by a certain very large company in the industry, and so I will write them despite opinions on a message board.

So opinions on a message board only matter when they are positive?

Hmmm...opinions on a message board vs. relationship (and paycheck) from large industry player. I'm with Dustin on this one.

I very much appreciate Dustin's honesty and that he's not simply trying to push his name or portfolio.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Allow me, the always contrast to back padding, to toss in some critique.... Before I read a word, I didnt know didly squat about you, who you are and what you do and I didnt have the faintest idea what you wanted to signify with that shot.

Normally youd say a picture speaks a thousand words, in this case I feel more like the picture needed a thousand words in order to carryit across.

So is it succesful? Within a small back padding community... It might be, but as a work of art or communicative piece it falls very short. It reminds me of some of the shots of my very first film roll I shot.

So yes indeed, photography is a matter of taste and apparently also a lot about knowing the artist in this case.

Sorry, I dont want to be harsh, but it also gets sickening to see thread after thread celebrating mediocraty. For some reason the internet is riddled with the idea that one is not allowed to critize unless its based on something positive.

Sorry, I too don't mean to be harsh, but your comment is nothing more than useless utter garbage without any usefulness to anyone and nor does it provide any constructive criticism to the photographer.
You say you don't know "didly squat" about Dustin and nor did you take a minute to read who he is and what he does but you were ever so eager to provide your so called "critique", which it isn't coz the jist of your post was basically to say the photo is no good and that your bloody first roll of film produced similar images blah, blah, blah without providing how it could have been improved or provide an alternative.
Since you admit that you know "didly squat", here is some education:
Dustin is an ordained minister at a Church in Pembroke, Ontario, Canada. He is one of the most respected members in CR, with some of the BEST reviews and photographs that most CR members eagerly read and follow.
Finally, his message with the photo (which was CLEARLY mentioned in his blog, if you had cared to read before you posted rubbish) is this:
"It is a very simple photo, and yet it tells a story. Brokenness can be beautiful. I can’t tell you how many times God has taken something broken in my life and made something beautiful out of it".
Now that speaks to me, because of different experiences in my life and my loved ones.

Its alright not to like a photo, but it is sickening when people just rubbish it with stupid comments that it reminds them of the images from their first roll of film etc, without providing an iota of constructive criticism
I'd like to see images, that can do justice to that message, from all you fancy pants people who are ever so eager to provide utterly useless criticism.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

BTW, this series is being requested by a certain very large company in the industry, and so I will write them despite opinions on a message board.

So opinions on a message board only matter when they are positive?

Opinions on a message board does NOT have to be positive, but they should at least provide constructive criticism ... it makes no sense when the post just rubbishes the photographer's work without providing any constructive criticism on how the image could have been improved.

 

[Arctic Photo]

BTW, this series is being requested by a certain very large company in the industry, and so I will write them despite opinions on a message board.

So opinions on a message board only matter when they are positive?

Opinions on a message board does NOT have to be positive, but they should at least provide constructive criticism ... it makes no sense when the post just rubbishes the photographer's work without providing any constructive criticism on how the image could have been improved.

I agree, as little as positive comments also describing why it's good. I did not say it was bad. Actually I didn't even look at it to start with. But now I have clicked his link to support his webstats and it was a picture of a broken tree, then a reference to god. Rienz, I know you a little through your posts here, you are a sensible man. I am not seeking anyone's support for my view though. I just questioned why he starts his post(s) with: on request from people on this forum I hereby give you my review, blog etc. when clearly it is self promotion. Better be honest about it. People here are very encouraging and I think it is important not to abuse that. If he's on a contract through a larger corporation, all the best, but if it is a business thing, then i think it should be disclosed in the first comment. About the picture, not bad but it didn't move me. Mostly because I'm a portrait person (although mediocre).

 

[Arctic Photo]

BTW, this series is being requested by a certain very large company in the industry, and so I will write them despite opinions on a message board.

So opinions on a message board only matter when they are positive?

Hmmm...opinions on a message board vs. relationship (and paycheck) from large industry player. I'm with Dustin on this one.

I very much appreciate Dustin's honesty and that he's not simply trying to push his name or portfolio.

I don't get your point?

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

BTW, this series is being requested by a certain very large company in the industry, and so I will write them despite opinions on a message board.

So opinions on a message board only matter when they are positive?

Opinions on a message board does NOT have to be positive, but they should at least provide constructive criticism ... it makes no sense when the post just rubbishes the photographer's work without providing any constructive criticism on how the image could have been improved.

I agree, as little as positive comments also describing why it's good. I did not say it was bad. Actually I didn't even look at it to start with. But now I have clicked his link to support his webstats and it was a picture of a broken tree, then a reference to god. Rienz, I know you a little through your posts here, you are a sensible man. I am not seeking anyone's support for my view though. I just questioned why he starts his post(s) with: on request from people on this forum I hereby give you my review, blog etc. when clearly it is self promotion. Better be honest about it. People here are very encouraging and I think it is important not to abuse that. If he's on a contract through a larger corporation, all the best, but if it is a business thing, then i think it should be disclosed in the first comment. About the picture, not bad but it didn't move me. Mostly because I'm a portrait person (although mediocre).

Why the hostility? You honesty began bashing me and the piece without even looking at it? That's part of the reason why message board opinions matter less to me than other sources...

 

[thepancakeman]

BTW, this series is being requested by a certain very large company in the industry, and so I will write them despite opinions on a message board.

So opinions on a message board only matter when they are positive?

Hmmm...opinions on a message board vs. relationship (and paycheck) from large industry player. I'm with Dustin on this one.

I very much appreciate Dustin's honesty and that he's not simply trying to push his name or portfolio.

I don't get your point?

Maybe I didn't get your point. I understood you to be saying that he should use the opinions of this board on whether or not to write his column when his primary driver is something completely external and a whole lot more valuable than the opinion of random internet strangers. And I disagree with that.

The fact that he's listening to feedback here and willing to tweak his output to better meet our needs/desires is just a statement of his generosity, not a statement of the value of our feedback.

 

[Arctic Photo]

BTW, this series is being requested by a certain very large company in the industry, and so I will write them despite opinions on a message board.

So opinions on a message board only matter when they are positive?

Opinions on a message board does NOT have to be positive, but they should at least provide constructive criticism ... it makes no sense when the post just rubbishes the photographer's work without providing any constructive criticism on how the image could have been improved.

I agree, as little as positive comments also describing why it's good. I did not say it was bad. Actually I didn't even look at it to start with. But now I have clicked his link to support his webstats and it was a picture of a broken tree, then a reference to god. Rienz, I know you a little through your posts here, you are a sensible man. I am not seeking anyone's support for my view though. I just questioned why he starts his post(s) with: on request from people on this forum I hereby give you my review, blog etc. when clearly it is self promotion. Better be honest about it. People here are very encouraging and I think it is important not to abuse that. If he's on a contract through a larger corporation, all the best, but if it is a business thing, then i think it should be disclosed in the first comment. About the picture, not bad but it didn't move me. Mostly because I'm a portrait person (although mediocre).

Why the hostility? You honesty began bashing me and the piece without even looking at it? That's part of the reason why message board opinions matter less to me than other sources...

I apologize if I came out hostile.. I didn't mean that. I tried to make a point that had nothing to do with what you wrote in your article. Read again what I wrote, if it doesn't make sense then I don't know how to say it.

But if message boards matters so little to you, then why do you post your reviews here? Also, you have twice pointed out that in answers to me which clearly is directed towards me. So as I don't salute your work, then my opinion is worthless.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

BTW, this series is being requested by a certain very large company in the industry, and so I will write them despite opinions on a message board.

So opinions on a message board only matter when they are positive?

Opinions on a message board does NOT have to be positive, but they should at least provide constructive criticism ... it makes no sense when the post just rubbishes the photographer's work without providing any constructive criticism on how the image could have been improved.

I agree, as little as positive comments also describing why it's good. I did not say it was bad. Actually I didn't even look at it to start with. But now I have clicked his link to support his webstats and it was a picture of a broken tree, then a reference to god. Rienz, I know you a little through your posts here, you are a sensible man. I am not seeking anyone's support for my view though. I just questioned why he starts his post(s) with: on request from people on this forum I hereby give you my review, blog etc. when clearly it is self promotion. Better be honest about it. People here are very encouraging and I think it is important not to abuse that. If he's on a contract through a larger corporation, all the best, but if it is a business thing, then i think it should be disclosed in the first comment. About the picture, not bad but it didn't move me. Mostly because I'm a portrait person (although mediocre).

Hi Artic Photo, actually, I didn't intend the second part of my above post (which I've marked in red font for your ease of reference) for you ... I think I just got carried away with my previous post. I am flattered that you think I am a sensible man ... thank you for the kind words.
I am not sure why you feel Dustin is not being upfront/honest here ... he's got a message he wants to convey through his image/blog, so he posted a link here to that image/blog ... having said that, allow me ask you the following questions:

1. What is so dishonest about Dustin's post here?

2. How do you know that he did not get requests? Have you read every single response and/or requests to all his 1400+ posts? or are you privy to the inbox of Dustin's Private Messages?

3. If you read Dustin's original post it clearly states: "I've been encouraged from multiple sources to start writing smaller pieces that tell the story of what was in my mind while shooting". But how did you interpret "multiple sources" as only CR members?

 

[surapon]

BTW, this series is being requested by a certain very large company in the industry, and so I will write them despite opinions on a message board.

So opinions on a message board only matter when they are positive?

Opinions on a message board does NOT have to be positive, but they should at least provide constructive criticism ... it makes no sense when the post just rubbishes the photographer's work without providing any constructive criticism on how the image could have been improved.

I agree, as little as positive comments also describing why it's good. I did not say it was bad. Actually I didn't even look at it to start with. But now I have clicked his link to support his webstats and it was a picture of a broken tree, then a reference to god. Rienz, I know you a little through your posts here, you are a sensible man. I am not seeking anyone's support for my view though. I just questioned why he starts his post(s) with: on request from people on this forum I hereby give you my review, blog etc. when clearly it is self promotion. Better be honest about it. People here are very encouraging and I think it is important not to abuse that. If he's on a contract through a larger corporation, all the best, but if it is a business thing, then i think it should be disclosed in the first comment. About the picture, not bad but it didn't move me. Mostly because I'm a portrait person (although mediocre).

Why the hostility? You honesty began bashing me and the piece without even looking at it? That's part of the reason why message board opinions matter less to me than other sources...

Dear Dustin , my friend and my teacher.
Please do not worry about Comments and Commends in this post. As you know, The CR. Members have many Levels of Expertise, From the Beginner( Hobby)---Mid Level of Semi-Pro, up to the PRO / Professional Photographers who earn the living with photography. That Mean, We have so many difference IDEAs in all the post.
For Me, my self, I love this Photography Hobby, and want to learn the New Ideas and the new Technique from all CR. Members, including You too, Sir. AND I learn from CR. Members in every times that I come to read all the Posts.
Please continue your GREAT WORKS for us , to learn from your Great Expertise. Yes, I am the person who write to you on your personal Message board and want to learn from you.
Have a great day, Sir.
Surapon

 

[Rienzphotoz]

I agree, as little as positive comments also describing why it's good. I did not say it was bad.

So as I don't salute your work, then my opinion is worthless.

Artic Photo allow me to address 2 things you've raised in your above 2 posts:
1. A positive comment without describing why it's good, still has a positive effect on the photographer, providing him/her with useful motivation/encouragement. But a negative comment without any constructive criticism other than it is bad (or it's no good or whatever), is totally worthless and useless for the photographer and the people reading it, as it provides no encouragement or useful information, other than spread ill will and hostility ... in such situations it is better to shut up and that does provide a powerful message ... trust me when I don't get any positive reaction to my photos, I get the message without anyone saying a word.
I am not saying that you said the photo is bad but I'm only trying to address your comment about positive comments should describe why it's good.

2. One does not have to salute anyone's work to provide constructive criticism, but it is absolutely worthless when the comments do not have an iota of constructive criticism about how the photographer can improve his/her image.

Maybe you don't mean it but your comments here are coming across as someone who does not like Dustin for whatever reason, because you have failed to provide any constructive criticism on how he can improve the image ... like I said, you probably don't meant to, but that's how it is coming across.

 

[Arctic Photo]

BTW, this series is being requested by a certain very large company in the industry, and so I will write them despite opinions on a message board.

So opinions on a message board only matter when they are positive?

Opinions on a message board does NOT have to be positive, but they should at least provide constructive criticism ... it makes no sense when the post just rubbishes the photographer's work without providing any constructive criticism on how the image could have been improved.

I agree, as little as positive comments also describing why it's good. I did not say it was bad. Actually I didn't even look at it to start with. But now I have clicked his link to support his webstats and it was a picture of a broken tree, then a reference to god. Rienz, I know you a little through your posts here, you are a sensible man. I am not seeking anyone's support for my view though. I just questioned why he starts his post(s) with: on request from people on this forum I hereby give you my review, blog etc. when clearly it is self promotion. Better be honest about it. People here are very encouraging and I think it is important not to abuse that. If he's on a contract through a larger corporation, all the best, but if it is a business thing, then i think it should be disclosed in the first comment. About the picture, not bad but it didn't move me. Mostly because I'm a portrait person (although mediocre).

Hi Artic Photo, actually, I didn't intend the second part of my above post (which I've marked in red font for your ease of reference) for you ... I think I just got carried away with my previous post. I am flattered that you think I am a sensible man ... thank you for the kind words.
I am not sure why you feel Dustin is not being upfront/honest here ... he's got a message he wants to convey through his image/blog, so he posted a link here to that image/blog ... having said that, allow me ask you the following questions:

1. What is so dishonest about Dustin's post here?

2. How do you know that he did not get requests? Have you read every single response and/or requests to all his 1400+ posts? or are you privy to the inbox of Dustin's Private Messages?

3. If you read Dustin's original post it clearly states: "I've been encouraged from multiple sources to start writing smaller pieces that tell the story of what was in my mind while shooting". But how did you interpret "multiple sources" as only CR members?

Hi, actually I hink it doesn't matter at this stage. I have nothing against him as I don't know him. I tried to make a point that clearly didn't make sense. To me it still does, but I won't pursue it any longer. I realized it was pointless though. Have a good night and keep the discussion going.

 

[privatebydesign]

Never one to be afraid to put my nose in where it isn't needed, without any ill will to Dustin who does some great work and reviews, as a matter of principle I am very much against pure outside links, indeed I am surprised CR allows such posts. There is nothing difficult about including an entire blog post and image here and including a link to the original for people who have more interest to go and see, and I think, on principle, that is the more honorable way of doing things. Pure links just smell of site traffic manipulation to me, I am sure Dustin has a good following and has been asked by people to post more stuff (heck people even PM me questions), but he can answer those personal requests with directions to his blog and site, that, to my mind, is very different from making people click to even see if they are interested in a post.

Just my 10c worth.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Thank you for making these posts. A lot can be learned by just looking at great pictures. But the chance to learn how/why the photographer took the picture is really handy from an education perspective.

 

[Albi86]

....

Rienz, I don't think that Arctic Photo meant to criticize this particular photo in itself.

The backstage of a picture is interesting if it's a great picture. The picture in question, a broken tree without any context, is not. It could have been taken anywhere, anytime. The caption and the picture have no apparent connection. The picture could have any caption, the caption could relate to any picture.

This lack of intrinsic content is, I guess, what Arctic Photo was referring to. The photo means nothing by itself and the elaborate text looks like a futile exercise meant to draw attention. Any random shutter actuation can be embellished with touching words, but it doesn't turn any of them into interesting images.

 

[thepancakeman]

This lack of intrinsic content is, I guess, what Arctic Photo was referring to. The photo means nothing by itself and the elaborate text looks like a futile exercise meant to draw attention. Any random shutter actuation can be embellished with touching words, but it doesn't turn any of them into interesting images.

You mean as opposed to this stunning $4.3 million dollar photo that has such intrinsic content?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhein_II

/sarcasm

 

[Hesbehindyou]

For some reason the internet is riddled with the idea that one is not allowed to critize unless its based on something positive.

Please pardon me for continuing the thread drift, but no one has adequately explained why your comments have caused such ire.

In a nutshell, you suck at critique. Why? You include insults and self-aggrandisement.

Insult:

So is it succesful? Within a small back padding community... It might be

Self-aggrandisement:

it falls very short. It reminds me of some of the shots of my very first film roll I shot.

Remove these two sentences (plus the one about celebrating mediocrity) and you wouldn't have got the adverse reaction.

 

[Eldar]

Never one to be afraid to put my nose in where it isn't needed, without any ill will to Dustin who does some great work and reviews, as a matter of principle I am very much against pure outside links, indeed I am surprised CR allows such posts. There is nothing difficult about including an entire blog post and image here and including a link to the original for people who have more interest to go and see, and I think, on principle, that is the more honorable way of doing things. Pure links just smell of site traffic manipulation to me, I am sure Dustin has a good following and has been asked by people to post more stuff (heck people even PM me questions), but he can answer those personal requests with directions to his blog and site, that, to my mind, is very different from making people click to even see if they are interested in a post.

Just my 10c worth.

+1
If it is a long article, a short synopsys along with the picture would be OK and a link at the end. But I'm not sure I think it is OK to use a forum like this to promote your own site, which I beleive has commercial motivation.

As for this specific post, I am a bit surprised why you selected an image like this. You have posted lots of images it could have been interesting to hear the story behind. But, without getting into any debate over the image, this was not one that raised any interest with me.

But keep posting, I may enjoy the next one more.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

Never one to be afraid to put my nose in where it isn't needed, without any ill will to Dustin who does some great work and reviews, as a matter of principle I am very much against pure outside links, indeed I am surprised CR allows such posts. There is nothing difficult about including an entire blog post and image here and including a link to the original for people who have more interest to go and see, and I think, on principle, that is the more honorable way of doing things. Pure links just smell of site traffic manipulation to me, I am sure Dustin has a good following and has been asked by people to post more stuff (heck people even PM me questions), but he can answer those personal requests with directions to his blog and site, that, to my mind, is very different from making people click to even see if they are interested in a post.

Just my 10c worth.

+1
If it is a long article, a short synopsys along with the picture would be OK and a link at the end. But I'm not sure I think it is OK to use a forum like this to promote your own site, which I beleive has commercial motivation.

As for this specific post, I am a bit surprised why you selected an image like this. You have posted lots of images it could have been interesting to hear the story behind. But, without getting into any debate over the image, this was not one that raised any interest with me.

But keep posting, I may enjoy the next one more.

Fair enough. I absolutely am trying to drive attention to my website to continue building my brand. I have no problem acknowledging that.

But what you may not know is that traffic back to LensRentals is typically in my top 4 clickthroughs from my website (#3 today, in fact). I recommend that people rent lenses (try before you buy)and freely cite articles by Roger to direct people to Lens Rentals. Anyone that works with web design/development knows how importance this ecosystem is. Every clickthrough from this website (CanonRumors) to any other website helps build its brand and page ranking. It is a bit of a symbiotic relationship, which is probably why it is allowed here.

Even from the kind reactions on this thread I sense that this particular post and image are not the sexiest I've ever shared. ;D I'll try to up my game next time 8)

 

[privatebydesign]

Never one to be afraid to put my nose in where it isn't needed, without any ill will to Dustin who does some great work and reviews, as a matter of principle I am very much against pure outside links, indeed I am surprised CR allows such posts. There is nothing difficult about including an entire blog post and image here and including a link to the original for people who have more interest to go and see, and I think, on principle, that is the more honorable way of doing things. Pure links just smell of site traffic manipulation to me, I am sure Dustin has a good following and has been asked by people to post more stuff (heck people even PM me questions), but he can answer those personal requests with directions to his blog and site, that, to my mind, is very different from making people click to even see if they are interested in a post.

Just my 10c worth.

+1
If it is a long article, a short synopsys along with the picture would be OK and a link at the end. But I'm not sure I think it is OK to use a forum like this to promote your own site, which I beleive has commercial motivation.

As for this specific post, I am a bit surprised why you selected an image like this. You have posted lots of images it could have been interesting to hear the story behind. But, without getting into any debate over the image, this was not one that raised any interest with me.

But keep posting, I may enjoy the next one more.

Fair enough. I absolutely am trying to drive attention to my website to continue building my brand. I have no problem acknowledging that.

But what you may not know is that traffic back to LensRentals is typically in my top 4 clickthroughs from my website (#3 today, in fact). I recommend that people rent lenses (try before you buy)and freely cite articles by Roger to direct people to Lens Rentals. Anyone that works with web design/development knows how importance this ecosystem is. Every clickthrough from this website (CanonRumors) to any other website helps build its brand and page ranking. It is a bit of a symbiotic relationship, which is probably why it is allowed here.

Even from the kind reactions on this thread I sense that this particular post and image are not the sexiest I've ever shared. ;D I'll try to up my game next time 8)

And none of what I suggested impacts that symbiosis one iota, it would prevent people who are not interested going and seeing something they are not interested in, and what you did also prevents more nervous folks going and seeing your posts anyway, many many people simply will not use off site links because of security/phishing concerns.

Eldar's synopsis and image approach is probably the best compromise, viewers will know if they are interested in clicking to the full blog and those that are interested can rest assured you are probably not the Russian Mafia out to steal their souls, but an earnest blogger. Meanwhile CR, you, and LensRentals all get their hits and they are all from people with enough information to be using those links with interest, no "Friend farms" to worry about.