I am tired of my 7D markII

[Loswr]

Yes i look at it, and yes, i have considered so many times that was a AFMA problem. I have lost hundreds of hours in AFMA and i do think it can also be a problem of AFMA.

However....2 considerations. If you see the soil, not even the soil is sharp! If it was simply a problem of AFMA and the focus hit another point, that point should be sharp. And it just don´t happens at all, not in this example, and not also in every situations.

I use a 500mm F4 IS L II with the 7D MKII and i tryed everything. The afma that gave me better results was +3 but no even that solve the problem so i tried with everyones....+5 (seems like this one is the better with the teleconverter), +7, +1, +2 and so on....With Tamron lenses well.....it´s the hell on heart! With tamron 90mmF2.8 VC i got a AFMA of +18 and even so, at distances bigger than 20 meters it just give me auful images!! This is because i sometimes use this lens in weddings.

Look at the grass in the foreground, at the extreme bottom of the screenshot below. Although your subject is not in sharp focus, the grass in front appears to be sharp. Certainly, it's sharper than the subject, which indicates that your DoF is in front of where you want it to be. It's even more evident in this image – you can clearly see that the that the focal plane is running in front of the subject (your crop of the image actually crops out the plane of sharp focus). The prior image that you call 'in focus' (#3 of the 10) is still front-focused, but the animal's head extends into the DoF (which at 500mm f/4 is pretty thin – I'd estimate less than 2 feet of DoF at the distance for that series).

As Mikehit stated, you're lens is front-focusing. The fact that a positive AFMA seems to help is consistent with that. Based on your description of trying AFMA values, it seems more like you've just fiddled with a few settings rather than systematically determining the appropriate value (e.g. with Reikan FoCal or careful manual testing).

 

[Larsskv]

If you look at the soil, in almost every case it seems the grass is in focus in front of the reindeer. This suggests a front focus problem.

+1

Honestly I don't see any part of those examples in focus, would be better to see the original raw files though.

@ go wild was IS on or off? Wondering if there is something faulty between camera and lens rather than AF as such

I do believe part of the explanation is front focusing. Further, one should be aware that the smaller pixels on the 7DII is much more demanding on the lenses, than larger pixels, such as on a 5DIII.

Unfortunately, TDP does not have comparison pictures from both APS-C and FF for the original 500 f/4 L IS. However, I doubt it is much sharper than the 100-400 L II. This link provides a comparison between the 1DS III and the 7DII, both with the 100-400LII. It shows that you, with the same lens, cannot expect to have the same pixel level sharpness on a 7DII, as a 5DIII:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=972&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=1&LensComp=972&CameraComp=963&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=4&APIComp=0

 

[pvalpha]

I can say that whatever was in the 1.0.5 firmware patch solved my issues with the 70-200 f2.8L IS II + TC 2x III. Whether that reset some messed up setting in the AF system or otherwise altered something with the shutter timings that wasn't in the Patch Notes, the ghosting and missed focus seem to be pretty much gone at high shutter speeds. I still haven't caught any BiF but all my pictures except where I didn't wait for focus are tack sharp - even with f7.1, 1/2000s shutter speeds. I got 9 out of 10 shooting out in my back yard, where as before I was lucky if I got 1 out of ten.

I hope Go Wild and others find some solution to their problems. I am really angry with myself for not noticing the firmware patch sooner. I lost a lot of good images and blew a lot of shutter count trying to find something that worked.

 

[picturefan]

I can say that whatever was in the 1.0.5 firmware patch solved my issues with the 70-200 f2.8L IS II + TC 2x III. Whether that reset some messed up setting in the AF system or otherwise altered something with the shutter timings that wasn't in the Patch Notes, the ghosting and missed focus seem to be pretty much gone at high shutter speeds. I still haven't caught any BiF but all my pictures except where I didn't wait for focus are tack sharp - even with f7.1, 1/2000s shutter speeds. I got 9 out of 10 shooting out in my back yard, where as before I was lucky if I got 1 out of ten.

I hope Go Wild and others find some solution to their problems. I am really angry with myself for not noticing the firmware patch sooner. I lost a lot of good images and blew a lot of shutter count trying to find something that worked.

Befor I did the update, had the same issues with 70-200, as it was descriped very often. But after the full update ceremony, as it was stated in the manuals, the issue remained. Pics did not get better, af-problems stayed on. It´s still the only lens with 7DII, that often just don´t focuse. Will "reboot" the system next and do it again, hoping for better results.

 

[pvalpha]

Befor I did the update, had the same issues with 70-200, as it was descriped very often. But after the full update ceremony, as it was stated in the manuals, the issue remained. Pics did not get better, af-problems stayed on. It´s still the only lens with 7DII, that often just don´t focuse. Will "reboot" the system next and do it again, hoping for better results.

If its a physical problem with the lens, or the lens needs adjustment beyond the AFMA limits, you won't notice an improvement. :-\ I'm going to take my camera out and try to get some more pictures today see how it is holding up. It could just be something as simple as the Extender mountings being finicky and the last few days I've managed to get it mounted "correctly". Its just a heck of a coincidence that I update the firmware and the camera magically seems to be doing what it's supposed to do from my perspective. I don't believe in magic.

If the camera is really stabilized, I should be able to do a focus calibration and get everything 100%. Something I wasn't able to do before. *crossing fingers*

 

[picturefan]

Befor I did the update, had the same issues with 70-200, as it was descriped very often. But after the full update ceremony, as it was stated in the manuals, the issue remained. Pics did not get better, af-problems stayed on. It´s still the only lens with 7DII, that often just don´t focuse. Will "reboot" the system next and do it again, hoping for better results.

If its a physical problem with the lens, or the lens needs adjustment beyond the AFMA limits, you won't notice an improvement. :-\ I'm going to take my camera out and try to get some more pictures today see how it is holding up. It could just be something as simple as the Extender mountings being finicky and the last few days I've managed to get it mounted "correctly". Its just a heck of a coincidence that I update the firmware and the camera magically seems to be doing what it's supposed to do from my perspective. I don't believe in magic.

If the camera is really stabilized, I should be able to do a focus calibration and get everything 100%. Something I wasn't able to do before. *crossing fingers*

Good luck to you!
In this camera-lens combo, my af is often like locked, that is to say that I push the af-button (af-on), but there will be no reaction. Only with 70-200II. When trying this 5-10 times and chance the target in between, and then focus again on the first target, it will start focussing again. Why??

 

[pvalpha]

Good luck to you!
In this camera-lens combo, my af is often like locked, that is to say that I push the af-button (af-on), but there will be no reaction. Only with 70-200II. When trying this 5-10 times and chance the target in between, and then focus again on the first target, it will start focussing again. Why??

You are the opposite of me. I set the af-button to AF-OFF and have the AF on the shutter button. For a while I had done back button focus because so many recommended it. I found that the back button wasn't giving me enough positive feedback quickly enough to know I had pressed for focus. I found that I had to push the button hard enough that I had to grip the camera more tightly and that my muscles were actually more tense introducing a bucket load of shake into my shots. The button on the vertical grip was much, much better... but that's not what I'm using to get action shots. I don't think I've ever had my 70-200 not try to focus. It might not succeed but it always does try when I press the shutter button halfway.

 

[Larsskv]

Good luck to you!
In this camera-lens combo, my af is often like locked, that is to say that I push the af-button (af-on), but there will be no reaction. Only with 70-200II. When trying this 5-10 times and chance the target in between, and then focus again on the first target, it will start focussing again. Why??

You are the opposite of me. I set the af-button to AF-OFF and have the AF on the shutter button. For a while I had done back button focus because so many recommended it. I found that the back button wasn't giving me enough positive feedback quickly enough to know I had pressed for focus. I found that I had to push the button hard enough that I had to grip the camera more tightly and that my muscles were actually more tense introducing a bucket load of shake into my shots. The button on the vertical grip was much, much better... but that's not what I'm using to get action shots. I don't think I've ever had my 70-200 not try to focus. It might not succeed but it always does try when I press the shutter button halfway.

+1! I also prefer to have AF on the shutter button, and AF-OFF on the back button.

 

[justaCanonuser]

That's exactly the way I felt - not being able to trust the camera. That is NEVER a good feeling to have, EVER.

Although my issue was more with AF consistency rather than having the image be completely un-sharp. But this seems to be a bigger(?) issue than I previously imagined...lots of folks coming out of the woodwork...

Canon has not yet acknowledged any issue, though, which has me wondering why...

I totally agree, Act444. I use a 5D3 and a 7D2, too, and the 7D2 produces with all my tele lenses massive AF inconsistencies (mainly birding) - and yes, I carefully AFMAed every single lens like I did with my 5D3. I really have a lot of experience with using the 5D3's AF system, and birding is the most demanding application because bird's contours can be soft, contrasts low etc. I tried all the same but also different AF settings with my 7D2. Switching off iTr improved its performance a bit when shooting birds flying in a blue sky. Otherwise you can nearly forget about even trying that (it performs as badly as our old Nikon D300/S's with their crappy phase AF systems). The 7D2 never matches the reliability of the 5D3 I have grown to take for granted. So I end up with a lot of images, but 10 images/s don't help me if I get less in-focus hits than with my slower 5D3. Only in the Single Shot mode my 7D2 is quite reliable, but that's no setting for action. But it indicates that all the algorithms used for trying to keep a moving object in focus with phase AF are the real problem of this camera.

Recently I was in Iceland, and due to luggage weight restrictions I decided to leave my 7D2 at home, to be sure that I get the images I want when shooting birds. I didn't regret my decision.

It is a real pity because besides its lousy phase AF performance the 7D2 is such a nice camera for wildlife/birding... But I seriously consider selling my copy, I am deeply frustrated, too.

 

[tron]

That's exactly the way I felt - not being able to trust the camera. That is NEVER a good feeling to have, EVER.

Although my issue was more with AF consistency rather than having the image be completely un-sharp. But this seems to be a bigger(?) issue than I previously imagined...lots of folks coming out of the woodwork...

Canon has not yet acknowledged any issue, though, which has me wondering why...

I totally agree, Act444. I use a 5D3 and a 7D2, too, and the 7D2 produces with all my tele lenses massive AF inconsistencies (mainly birding) - and yes, I carefully AFMAed every single lens like I did with my 5D3. I really have a lot of experience with using the 5D3's AF system, and birding is the most demanding application because bird's contours can be soft, contrasts low etc. I tried all the same but also different AF settings with my 7D2. Switching off iTr improved its performance a bit when shooting birds flying in a blue sky. Otherwise you can nearly forget about even trying that (it performs as badly as our old Nikon D300/S's with their crappy phase AF systems). The 7D2 never matches the reliability of the 5D3 I have grown to take for granted. So I end up with a lot of images, but 10 images/s don't help me if I get less in-focus hits than with my slower 5D3. Only in the Single Shot mode my 7D2 is quite reliable, but that's no setting for action. But it indicates that all the algorithms used for trying to keep a moving object in focus with phase AF are the real problem of this camera.

Recently I was in Iceland, and due to luggage weight restrictions I decided to leave my 7D2 at home, to be sure that I get the images I want when shooting birds. I didn't regret my decision.

It is a real pity because besides its lousy phase AF performance the 7D2 is such a nice camera for wildlife/birding... But I seriously consider selling my copy, I am deeply frustrated, too.

When did you buy it? Can you also tell us the first 2 digits of the serial number?

 

[Deleted member 7828]

That's exactly the way I felt - not being able to trust the camera. That is NEVER a good feeling to have, EVER.

Although my issue was more with AF consistency rather than having the image be completely un-sharp. But this seems to be a bigger(?) issue than I previously imagined...lots of folks coming out of the woodwork...

Canon has not yet acknowledged any issue, though, which has me wondering why...

I totally agree, Act444. I use a 5D3 and a 7D2, too, and the 7D2 produces with all my tele lenses massive AF inconsistencies (mainly birding) - and yes, I carefully AFMAed every single lens like I did with my 5D3. I really have a lot of experience with using the 5D3's AF system, and birding is the most demanding application because bird's contours can be soft, contrasts low etc. I tried all the same but also different AF settings with my 7D2. Switching off iTr improved its performance a bit when shooting birds flying in a blue sky. Otherwise you can nearly forget about even trying that (it performs as badly as our old Nikon D300/S's with their crappy phase AF systems). The 7D2 never matches the reliability of the 5D3 I have grown to take for granted. So I end up with a lot of images, but 10 images/s don't help me if I get less in-focus hits than with my slower 5D3. Only in the Single Shot mode my 7D2 is quite reliable, but that's no setting for action. But it indicates that all the algorithms used for trying to keep a moving object in focus with phase AF are the real problem of this camera.

Recently I was in Iceland, and due to luggage weight restrictions I decided to leave my 7D2 at home, to be sure that I get the images I want when shooting birds. I didn't regret my decision.

It is a real pity because besides its lousy phase AF performance the 7D2 is such a nice camera for wildlife/birding... But I seriously consider selling my copy, I am deeply frustrated, too.

Thanks for your response. It's a pity because ergo-wise, I agree - it's really a great camera.

Yes, it led me to giving it up and now I use the 5D3 for ALL my photography (except for travel and work where I've kept the M10). I don't regret it (yet).

 

[justaCanonuser]

When did you buy it? Can you also tell us the first 2 digits of the serial number?

Sorry for my delayed reply, I was busy past days. I bought it about a year ago in Germany. First digits of S/N are 05.

 

[tron]

When did you buy it? Can you also tell us the first 2 digits of the serial number?

Sorry for my delayed reply, I was busy past days. I bought it about a year ago in Germany. First digits of S/N are 05.

Thanks, my 7DII serial starts with 07. It is not a disaster in focusing. I have taken very good photos with telephotos (birds). But I have some complaints:

1. Sluggish AF response (when pressing the shutter button with 65 points activated (with just a telephoto 400 or 500mm and NO TC)
2. I am not sure 100% that AF points are aligned perfectly but I am not sure they are not. I know this is not
scientific observation since I suspect a user error too but let's say when using a 500mm with 1.4x (latest Canon) and 7DII the use of tripod helps a lot (for small birds that do not move a lot). Even so success rate is not close to 100%. It is between 50 and 80 (roughly estimated since I have already erased many oof photos).

 

[justaCanonuser]

When did you buy it? Can you also tell us the first 2 digits of the serial number?

Sorry for my delayed reply, I was busy past days. I bought it about a year ago in Germany. First digits of S/N are 05.

Thanks, my 7DII serial starts with 07. It is not a disaster in focusing. I have taken very good photos with telephotos (birds). But I have some complaints:

1. Sluggish AF response (when pressing the shutter button with 65 points activated (with just a telephoto 400 or 500mm and NO TC)
2. I am not sure 100% that AF points are aligned perfectly but I am not sure they are not. I know this is not
scientific observation since I suspect a user error too but let's say when using a 500mm with 1.4x (latest Canon) and 7DII the use of tripod helps a lot (for small birds that do not move a lot). Even so success rate is not close to 100%. It is between 50 and 80 (roughly estimated since I have already erased many oof photos).

Funny thing with my 7D2 is that it performs a tad better in Servo mode (and appropriate AF mode setting) when I attach Canon's 1.4x Mk III TC, using my vintage EF 4.5/500. The whole camera then reacts less nervously.

 

[Larsskv]

1. Sluggish AF response (when pressing the shutter button with 65 points activated (with just a telephoto 400 or 500mm and NO TC)

Have you activated the visible AF point in the 65 points activated mode? The auto setting shows no AF points, and let the camera choose for you. If you activate the af point you can decide where the camera should start to focus, and leave it to the camera to follow the selected subject automatically using the RGB metering system.

You can activate the AF point by going to the fourth tab in the AF menu, then select the next last option, and deselect auto.

 

[tron]

1. Sluggish AF response (when pressing the shutter button with 65 points activated (with just a telephoto 400 or 500mm and NO TC)

Have you activated the visible AF point in the 65 points activated mode? The auto setting shows no AF points, and let the camera choose for you. If you activate the af point you can decide where the camera should start to focus, and leave it to the camera to follow the selected subject automatically using the RGB metering system.

You can activate the AF point by going to the fourth tab in the AF menu, then select the next last option, and deselect auto.

I had, I wasn't satisfied and I set it to auto. The reason: I wanted to be able to take photos of flying birds. In many cases they were flying so fast that I was trying to just put them on frame (7D2 with 400 or 500mm, the 400 was so much easier of course...). In many occasions I did not had the chance to put them say in the center so If I had a preselected point the camera would probably try to focus at the sky ...

 

[Loswr]

You can activate the AF point by going to the fourth tab in the AF menu, then select the next last option, and deselect auto.

I had, I wasn't satisfied and I set it to auto. The reason: I wanted to be able to take photos of flying birds. In many cases they were flying so fast that I was trying to just put them on frame (7D2 with 400 or 500mm, the 400 was so much easier of course...). In many occasions I did not had the chance to put them say in the center so If I had a preselected point the camera would probably try to focus at the sky ...

The point of pre-selecting a point with 65-pt auto mode is tha you pick the starting point (doesn't have to be the center) then the AF system tracks the subject through the frame. The problem with letting the camera pick the starting point is if there's anything else in the frame, it'll pick the closest subject which may not be the one you want. If you're shooting birds against a blue sky, it should do ok.

 

[tron]

You can activate the AF point by going to the fourth tab in the AF menu, then select the next last option, and deselect auto.

I had, I wasn't satisfied and I set it to auto. The reason: I wanted to be able to take photos of flying birds. In many cases they were flying so fast that I was trying to just put them on frame (7D2 with 400 or 500mm, the 400 was so much easier of course...). In many occasions I did not had the chance to put them say in the center so If I had a preselected point the camera would probably try to focus at the sky ...

The point of pre-selecting a point with 65-pt auto mode is tha you pick the starting point (doesn't have to be the center) then the AF system tracks the subject through the frame. The problem with letting the camera pick the starting point is if there's anything else in the frame, it'll pick the closest subject which may not be the one you want. If you're shooting birds against a blue sky, it should do ok.

Exactly! The closest object was the bird. However camera didn't seem to respond immediately (no blinking AF points) when a bird was targeted by some of the AF points (AF mode was AI Servo). So I was retrying by repressing the shutter button (I do not use back button focusing for the following reason: I use the AF button to switch immediately to 65 AF point from a different AF point selection. When in different AF point selection I need to use the joystick so my thumb has a different use!). One thing: I remember trying various combinations of priority (Focus vs Shooting) with not much of a difference but to tell the truth I had not made comparative shots. I was anxious to get the shot. When the bird covers many AF points I think immediate focusing must be possible.

 

[justaCanonuser]

1. Sluggish AF response (when pressing the shutter button with 65 points activated (with just a telephoto 400 or 500mm and NO TC)
2. I am not sure 100% that AF points are aligned perfectly but I am not sure they are not. I know this is not
scientific observation since I suspect a user error too but let's say when using a 500mm with 1.4x (latest Canon) and 7DII the use of tripod helps a lot (for small birds that do not move a lot). Even so success rate is not close to 100%. It is between 50 and 80 (roughly estimated since I have already erased many oof photos).

I never use Auto selection with all AF points activated. I always select a smaller field with a few AF pts where I e.g. expect the bird's head to be. If the object is a bit more static I select only one AF pt, sometimes extended to then neighboring pts, and try to place it on the eye.

When I got my 7D2 new I was really shocked to discover that in the AF servo mode, Case 1 or "stiffer" Case 2 selected, even the slightest movement of a relatively still sitting bird caused the camera to hunt so much that it blurred even easy-to-get images (as I wrote I AFMAed all my tele lenses carefully). Opposite to my 5D3 which then nails the bird's head and keeps steady on it in the AF servo mode, my 7D2 behaves really nervously with all my tele lenses. Later I discovered that the "single shot mode" works precisely, so it definitely is related with object tracking algorithms running in the 7D2's AF system - it is not a problem of a misaligned AF sensor or any other calibration flaw at least in my camera.

Interestingly, shooting BIF against blue sky turned out to be a challenge, the 7D2 fails exactly in the same angles relatively to the axis pointing to the sun as the D300/D300S of our Nikon gear (also using a e.g. 500mm prime). This is an old problem of Nikon which is related to they way their color based object tracking systems works (don't know if they fixed it with the D500), according to our observation the polarization of the light may also influence the camera's tracking system - but how? No idea so far. Switching off "iTR" in the 7D2 solved those problems not completely, but definitely improved my camera's tracking precision in this particular setting. So, obviously, Canon "nikonized" the 7D2's AF system which is no good news for birders using Canon IMHO.

 

[Mikehit]

So, obviously, Canon "nikonized" the 7D2's AF system which is no good news for birders using Canon IMHO.

I don't think it is about 'Nikonizing' anything but about compromises and at least you have the option.
There are various reports saying that you get better AF tracking accuracy by turning off iTR, reducing burst rate from 10fps to 7fps and other choices - which is not surprising really given that all of these add to processor power. Maybe reducing the the burs rate to 7fps improves the iTR performance (I don't know yet, as I haven't done that level of testing).
The key difference between the 1Dx and the 7D2 is that the former has a processor totally dedicated to AF whereas in the 7D2 it is shared with other functions - so the lower load you put on the processor the better the AF performance.
Nor, IMO, is it about crippling potentially great functionality but it is about understanding how it performs in different situations. And it is a definite improvement over the original 7D and, given that it was significantly cheaper than the 5D3 or the 1Dx, is all I am really bothered about.

As I say, at least I have the choice how I use the camera. How can that not be good thing for birders?