I have a question about wedding photography

[adamoe]

Hi guys so i just shot a wedding the other weekend, Started 7am, finished 10pm, took 1600 pictures. i went through and Edited them all - threw away bad ones etc - gave the couple 726 nice edited pictures, then a folder with 100 favorites in 3 different color edits (black white , antique and bright n puffy) - so i think im done .. great..

then the bride / groom calls and tells me they wanted / expected to sit down with me - and go over all the pictures with me and edit them all with me - and also - they want all the raw pictures (50gb) is this crazy?!? or am i crazy for thinking i dont want to sit down with them and Edit together?!?

I've attached just a few of the pics i took that i liked. mmm seems i can only post 4 pics here.. oh well

 

[nightbreath]

Hi adamoe,

If I were on your place I'd say: "this is how I do my work, if you want it to be done in another way – find another person". I'd also export all the photos without editing and give them to do that the way they like.

 

[Z]

Ouch, this is tricky. With hindsight (not helpful, I know), it should be clear how things are going to be done well in advance. Do you have a written agreement/contract?

 

[wockawocka]

Ordinarily they don't do this however it seems a tactful way of saying they don't like their photos and to be honest, they're hideously over edited. Nothing wrong with the shots, positioning etc, just the editing.

Maybe it's a style that people like but if I handed the couple those photos I'd expect to be sued.

I'd offer to give them the RAW files. Highly unusual but so is your work.

 

[mws]

Whats in your contract?

 

[Z]

I think "hideously overedited" is a bit of an overstatement. I can see that you've gone for a soft, dreamy look, but the skin tones are just too flat and 'airbrushed'. It looks like you've just grabbed a colour dropper in photoshop and painted over their skin with a soft brush :/ I think if you fixed up the skin by easing off on the airbrushing, they'd be lovely shots. At the moment they're just too plastic-looking for my tastes.

EDIT:

It's senseless being critical without putting forward some advice, so here all I've done is increase the midtone contrast (clarity/curves) to show you what I mean. Her face retains more shape and there isn't the same "glow" intensity. Obviously you'll be able to do better with the raw files.

 

[castillophotodesign]

Ordinarily they don't do this however it seems a tactful way of saying they don't like their photos and to be honest, they're hideously over edited. Nothing wrong with the shots, positioning etc, just the editing.

Maybe it's a style that people like but if I handed the couple those photos I'd expect to be sued.

I'd offer to give them the RAW files. Highly unusual but so is your work.

a little harsh but i agree with you the photos seem over edited, but I am also guessing that the couple saw his work before they hired him.... so they must have liked his style.

Also it does seem a like a pain to edit all the photos with the couple, i think that would make me uncomfortable as well.

 

[wockawocka]

Ok Ok, granted, Hideous was a poor choice of words.

50 weddings a year and I've never been asked by the couple to be present during editing. To me, this seems a polite way to say they're unhappy.

Rather than edit everything again give them the RAW files which is what they really want.

 

[SteenerMe]

Shots look ok...but they seem to be edited by glamour shots...back away from the gaussian blur.

 

[preppyak]

Ordinarily they don't do this however it seems a tactful way of saying they don't like their photos

At the moment they're just too plastic-looking for my tastes.

I agree with these sentiments, and I'd venture a guess that either one of them has some photo knowledge, or they have a friend that does, thus why they'd want the RAW files (to process their own way).

I'd offer to give them the RAW files. Highly unusual but so is your work.

The other option, if you're comfortable with it, is to take the meeting and see what they are looking for specifically. Maybe it's a few simple changes (backing off the highlights, less brushing, etc), and then offering to re-do them in that style. Don't let them sit their for the entire editing, but, give them a few other options for how the photos might be processed.

It could avoid a messy situation, while also not dealing with the awkwardness that would be them sitting in on your entire edit (which would take significantly longer).

Do you have your webpage? Are these a departure from your normal style? Cause that will matter too. If all your other stuff looks the same, I'd be less inclined to change the photos, but, if they aren't what you feature on your site, then they'd have a point.

 

[awinphoto]

hmmm.... I like your style but I also, objectively, can see how it could be perceived as "over-edited" and soft. I never let my clients view RAW unedited files as I have too much pride to let my clients walk out the door with photos that haven't gone through any editing/retouching. I have heard of wedding photographers offer their photos in a slide show type of fashion initially to kind of prepare the clients for the files they are about to receive and build anticipation, and also bring them in for the formal viewing... Not of raw files but your final edits to gauge their reactions (if they seem underwhelmed or anything or wish to see any variation of a certain shot, you can show them on the fly. Also a formal viewing is a great sales tool if you have a nice lab to get print orders. I wouldn't give them raws or let them edit it unless they pay you extra for your time and effort, but that's just me.

 

[sach100]

I think the skin areas look overdone. Otherwise IMO the shots themselves are pretty good.
If it's just that, maybe you could re-edit few of them with more natural looking skin. It's not an yes/ no situation.
Only you will be able to guess what's on their mind. Anycase, unhappy clients is no good either..

 

[bycostello]

you've done waaaaaaaaaay too much already and never ever give out raws...

 

[unfocused]

The most important thing is to make this as a business decision, NOT as a personal decision. You have to do what is best for your future business, which probably means giving them most, but not all, that they want.

I certainly wouldn't hand over 1,600 unedited RAW files to anyone, just as I would never show someone contact sheets in the film days. People will hone in on every frame, looking for the mistakes and then bad mouth you to everyone they know.

If they are rational and not angry, I'd try to meet with them in person and get a better idea of what they want. If you feel you can deliver, then try to do that. If not, then politely decline and offer an alternative: which might include giving them the files for the 726 pictures you picked out but in a form that won't embarrass you should they simply send them to Walgreens to have prints made.

There's a part of me that says, call them and say: Sure, come on over. How many hours do you really think they'd sit there watching you edit 1,600 photos? But, that's the devil in me talking.

 

[Orion]

I guess the first mistake was to make those 100 edits in 3 different settings. The first and ONLY thing you should do when presenting the bride and groom the photos is the originals with only minor edits like sharpness and colour, etc . . that's it. Basic post, and maybe some cropping. Just capture the day with good composition, and lose the "white and puffy" look.

Then, and ONLY THEN, IF the bride and groom ask for artistic edits, you let them select which ones they want and negotiate a price difference, if viable. . . .

edit:

I just did my FIRST wedding, and these are some of the ones they REALLY LOVED . . and since it was my first, any edits I do will be a pleasure for me so that I can work on my portfolio, etc.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=819.msg120547#new

 

[muranotop]

I agree. Never give out RAW files to your clients. Only give them medium to high resolution JPGs. For myself, I explain to them that I do a minor edit which is what they get (includes adjusting all photo levels, contrast, exposure, etc.). Then I personally choose a few photos to work on with major edits- the more creative editing process using filters, layers, etc. From there, I post that on my secured site so if they want to purchase it, they can do so but they're paying a higher price because its the more edited version.

Always develop a process whenever you deal with a potential client. Then get them to sign the contract and give you a deposit at that time. Do not shoot the wedding until you get a deposit to commit to the date. Give them 30 days (or 15 days) to have them pay you the balance. I used this PDF as a go-by and edit to my liking.

http://wedding-photographers-directory.com/ContractPDFs/Contract%204.pdf

Anyway, I hope this helps. Lessons learned. Good luck to you. ;D

 

[awinphoto]

Also IF they wish for all photos and are a stickler on this... simple... tell them to provide you wish a portable hard drive or a very beefy thumb drive and dump them on there... no need to waste countless DVD's if you dont need to, and this is because of their displeasure... that way if they're willing to sell out $20-30 for a hard drive, and you're willing to part with your images, which i'm against, then it's a win win and you come off looking like the good guy in the transaction.

 

[CanonLITA]

I would never give the raw, that's not the product you are suppose to sell. A professional photographer delivers a service that start with understanding the needs/emotions of the client and ends with the ability to reproduce those needs/emotions on paper, screen or whatever else. Raw files are just a part of that process, a part that the photographer has the right to manage by herself. Handling out the raw or not distinguishes the photographer from the people hired to just press the shutter. Of course retaining the raws implies the assumption of a higher responsibility, it's like promising you'll be there should they need something more out of that shooting (say, they want to print a cake for the 10th anniversary and at that point a new technology will require an high resolution file to be sent to the pastry mixer...). If talk of GB now, but imagine when people dealt with the problem of storing medium format films..

 

[wockawocka]

Guys, stop drifting away from the bigger picture.

Agreed, it's really bad to give out Raws, I'd never do it either. But, the OP's problem is the client wants the raws, a big red flag being waved around is that they mentioned overseeing the edits, this never happens. Couple that with the examples shown and you can guess what the problem is and why they're asking.

In that context...and lets keep it in context rather than give canned responses....

'Assuming' it's because of the standard of work would it not be easier to give the raws and wave them bye bye as opposed to editing another 700 images all over again, learn from it and move on. The OP certainly won't look worse than he does already by giving them over.

I would only hand over the Raw files that match the edits supplied. You don't want every bad exposure, mistake duplicate in there too. In short, you've edited them, perhaps it's not to their taste, communicate with the bride and groom. Re-editing will cost them extra but you sympathise and are happy on this occassion to supply the Raw files.

'Assuming'......

 

[jaayres20]

Do you have a contract? It is not a good practice to give out RAW images or unedited images? Some might say your pictures are over edited but is that your style and the style the clients saw when they booked you? The pictures you posted looked consistant which is important no matter the style. I have shot almost 50 weddings and I have had a few people ask for the RAW files before they booked me but after I explained to them that my images are my brand and that I go to a lot of truble to make every image that comes form me consistant they understand and don't mention it again. It would be like going into a restaurant and asking to go back into the kitchen to make your own meal. I think you need to ask them very specifically what they don't like about the pictures because there are some people who are just a little controlling and are used to controlling everything. It may not have mattered if you were Jose Villa they still might might of made the same request. They may just not know that is something like that isn't typically done. If they keep insisting you might try to offer further edites on a limited number of images. No more than 25-50 but say that it would be very time consuming to go back through and re-edit all of the images and that if you did that for everyone you would have been out of business a long time ago. Good luck and BTW I like the pictures you posted and think you have a lot going for you so don't let something like this set you back. Just be very specific in the future so the client knows your expectations and you know their expectations.