Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and Nikko

[ahsanford]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

I wonder if Canon will do the same, with the adapter coming out after the basic system.

EOS M was announced with an adaptor right out of the gate if I recall.

Considering the biggest market and easiest sale with FF mirrorless are existing Canon users, I'd be stunned if a thin-mount FF mirrorless (and only a thin mount was announced) was not released alongside an EF/EF-S adaptor.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Nonetheless, Nikon has promised us very little with their announcement, and nothing more than what we already knew.

Incorrect. No one definitively knew Nikon was coming out with a thinner mount than F with their FF mirrorless until today. The rest was hearsay and screengrabs.

Today? It's officially thinner than F with an adaptor forthcoming -- straight from the horse's mouth.

- A

 

[davidmurray]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Not interested in a new mount. I've invested money in lenses that I want to continue using, so a new mount is pointless to me unless that "new mount" is compatible with my existing lenses.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Well, interesting... But how will Nikon adapt their existing lenses to the new mount? I know, I know. With an adapter. But will that adapter contain the mechanical parts to drive aperture? Cos most Nikon lens still use mechanical aperture control. Only the newest lenses have electronic control. What about the millions of manual Nikon lenses? MILC guys just love playing with old manual lenses. And the new shiny Nikon FF MILC won't support them? LMFAO and still possible...

That mechanical aperture control is built into the FX lens, isn't it?

If an adaptor advances the 'Z' (new) mount to the F mount distance and the FX lens has a mechanical aperture ring built in, what's not to work? Should be fine.

- A

 

[davidmurray]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Oh, and will this new camera have better battery performance than my existing camera? Or will it be poorer performance but with a much bigger battery?

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Not interested in a new mount. I've invested money in lenses that I want to continue using, so a new mount is pointless to me unless that "new mount" is compatible with my existing lenses.

They will work. To have them not work would be a middle finger to all loyal FX and EF glass owners, who surely are the easiest FF mirrorless sale either company will find.

So can someone tell me -- clearly and concisely -- why a thinner than Nikon F or Canon EF mount won't accept Nikon FX or Canon EF (respectively) glass on an adaptor?

An adaptor that is effectively a tube to get the SLR lens flange distance back -- with a passthrough for AF contacts/communication -- will allow the SLR mount lens to mount and work at least as well as LiveView AF does on modern bodies today.

Someone please tell me why that can't work. Because I'm pretty sure that's what we're about to be offered. :

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Oh, and will this new camera have better battery performance than my existing camera? Or will it be poorer performance but with a much bigger battery?

Same as your SLR in LiveView, possibly, but no, your SLR should mop the floor with its battery life.

But I hope you don't want to shoot completely silently, focus MF glass in age of endangered SLR focus screens, shoot crazy high burst rates that are no longer mirror box limited, etc. all while the camera is held up to your eye.

It's a value proposition. To simply throw mud at mirrorless with a hackneyed/overplayed point doesn't mean mirrorless can't do some things better than an SLR. It can. You may not care about that, but Canon isn't really aiming this camera at you.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

So, the details released paint a very clear high-level picture: Mirrorless + FF sensor + adaptor for FX glass. The lens picture also implies that larger glass (remember, f/0.9 was rumored) of some sort is a near-term deliverable for this platform.

But what (non-spec) surprises might Nikon not be telling us?

• What else does that adaptor do besides space out the flange distance for FX and drive the AF?
  
  
• That's a fairly pronounced viewfinder. Anything out of the expected going on there?
  
  
• Any chance they'll offer this and a player-to-be-named-later FF mirrorless with a full F mount mirrorless?

- A

 

[transpo1]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Nikon is stringing this out as long as possible, but this is a big day nonetheless:

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/25/official-press-release-nikons-develops-the-next-generation-full-frame-mirrorless-camera.aspx/

It’s full frame.

It’s a thinner than FX mount.

FX lenses are compatible with an adaptor.

Those are not trivial pieces of news. We’ve been waiting for that sort of clear tell for Canon for years here.

- A

I was surprised, though, to read that the adapter “Is in development.” What does that mean? The camera will be officially announced no more than about a month from now, with the lenses and accessories, going by the timing of Nikon’s Pre-announcements and the later actual ones.

But I would think that before lenses are out, an adapter would be available. I’m not saying that adapters are a development walk in the park, but they’re much simpler than lenses. Certainly, if I’m a Nikon owner, and I’ve got lenses, I would want to run out and use them, as new lenses will be limited for some time.

If it’s a few weeks, that would be odd, but ok. But if it’s several months, that’s just odd.
I wonder if Canon will do the same, with the adapter coming out after the basic system.

The adapter not available is good way to force you to buy a native lens or two

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Nikon is stringing this out as long as possible, but this is a big day nonetheless:

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/25/official-press-release-nikons-develops-the-next-generation-full-frame-mirrorless-camera.aspx/

It’s full frame.

It’s a thinner than FX mount.

FX lenses are compatible with an adaptor.

Those are not trivial pieces of news. We’ve been waiting for that sort of clear tell for Canon for years here.

- A

I was surprised, though, to read that the adapter “Is in development.” What does that mean? The camera will be officially announced no more than about a month from now, with the lenses and accessories, going by the timing of Nikon’s Pre-announcements and the later actual ones.

But I would think that before lenses are out, an adapter would be available. I’m not saying that adapters are a development walk in the park, but they’re much simpler than lenses. Certainly, if I’m a Nikon owner, and I’ve got lenses, I would want to run out and use them, as new lenses will be limited for some time.

If it’s a few weeks, that would be odd, but ok. But if it’s several months, that’s just odd.
I wonder if Canon will do the same, with the adapter coming out after the basic system.

The adapter not available is good way to force you to buy a native lens or two

The adapter will be a bad joke, Nikon have a horrific problem with F mount legacy lenses. Some have no ability to focus as they expect the body to have the drive and this new mirrorless adapter won't do that, many have issues with aperture too, the list is close to endless with different series of features as Nikon blew in the wind of not knowing what they thought they'd need from early AF to early crop digital to in lens AF motors and FF digital sensors.

Anybody thinking to buy a Nikon mirrorless with the intent of transitioning with their current lenses is kidding themselves, it isn't going to happen.

Canon are in a much stronger position with the EF lens series if you ignore the EF-M and EF-S, which anybody who is going to spend thousands on a new mirrorless must be aware of as neither sub series project a ff covering image circle. There is no reason why, if Canon go for a new mount on their FF mirrorless cameras, that the entire EF lens stable couldn't be fully usable with a simple dumb tube style adapter with electronic connectors.

Having said that for generations Nikon and Canon have been contrarian, if one does one thing the other seemingly deliberately does the complete opposite, lens mounts turning in opposite directions, focus direction, control dials direction, change from manual focus mount to AF dedicated mount for Canon and not for Nikon. I believe the strongest indicator that Canon might keep the EF mount is because Nikon haven't kept the F mount.

 

[sdz]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Nikon announces vaporware!

No!

Yes!

Eventually, Nikon will announce a camera, a few lenses and an adapter. But these are mist today. Nikon will eventually ship these items. Nonetheless, Nikon has promised us very little with their announcement, and nothing more than what we already knew.

Please, just stop it! All camera companies do a bit of preannouncement. We know that Nikon will make an official announcement in about a month, of real products. Vaporware was coined a long time ago when Grid came out with a tablet using their own OS. Microsoft announced that people should wait until theirs, which was in development, came out. Microsoft had no tablet OS in development at the time, and it was labeled as vaporware. Grid failed as a result of people holding back.

That’s not the case here.

Vaporware refers to every piece of hardware or software that has been announced or has as a rumor supported by company hints that does not yet exist as a shipping product.

Vaporware is marketing blather, as is Nikon's announcement.

So, I'll not stop. Why should I? This announcement was mere BS masquerading as information.

Maybe you should stop because you are misusing the term vaporware. An uninformative news release does not make the product vaporware. Vaporware refers to a product that is announced as under active development when it is not. The Nikon mirrorless has been in active development for quite a while and at this point is almost certainly in production. Something that is in production is not vaporware.

Sorry, but announcing nothing specific and lacking an actual announcement date makes this vaporware, as I stated. I am not misusing the term. The term was commonly used to refer to announced product that did not ship after the announcement. Nikon's mirrorless FF camera will cease to be vaporware when it ships.

I do not believe the world is well served by marketing BS.

 

[sdz]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Nonetheless, Nikon has promised us very little with their announcement, and nothing more than what we already knew.

Incorrect. No one definitively knew Nikon was coming out with a thinner mount than F with their FF mirrorless until today. The rest was hearsay and screengrabs.

Today? It's officially thinner than F with an adaptor forthcoming -- straight from the horse's mouth.

- A

Yes, Nikon confirmed what rumor suggested. That and a quarter will buy you a gumball.

 

[stevelee]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

So they will adapt DSLR lenses to a mirrorless camera by introducing a mirror? What's a catotrophobe to do?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

So they will adapt DSLR lenses to a mirrorless camera by introducing a mirror? What's a catotrophobe to do?

According to the patent, it allows for a way to autofocus those screw drive lenses as well as automatic control of the aperture. The downside is the pellicle mirror and the issues it brings, which are not trivial. One of the possible implementations mentioned is to use a very narrow frequency band of light from the pellicle mirror, which lets most of the light pass thru. You will hardly miss that color, the patent says.

 

[stevelee]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Is this the point in the thread where we argue over the definition, applicability, spelling, and pronunciation of "kludge"?

 

[Talys]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Maybe you should stop because you are misusing the term vaporware. An uninformative news release does not make the product vaporware. Vaporware refers to a product that is announced as under active development when it is not. The Nikon mirrorless has been in active development for quite a while and at this point is almost certainly in production. Something that is in production is not vaporware.

Sorry, but announcing nothing specific and lacking an actual announcement date makes this vaporware, as I stated. I am not misusing the term. The term was commonly used to refer to announced product that did not ship after the announcement. Nikon's mirrorless FF camera will cease to be vaporware when it ships.

I do not believe the world is well served by marketing BS.

Vaporware generally refers to tech stuff that is announced (marketing BS) that the manufacturer never makes. In this case, I highly doubt that Nikon's FF mirrorless is vaporware, because I can't imagine Nikon not actually selling one at some point. It's technically not vaporware, as long as Nikon eventually ships it, and to be fair, in the computer world, there are products that are announced years in advance of the launch date, where the final product only vaguely resembles the announced one. On the other hand, I totally agree that this is vague product marketing that is really not informative. It's really just an aspirational ad that says, "Don't buy Sony, coz we have something cool coming. Promise!"

 

[Kit.]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Well, interesting... But how will Nikon adapt their existing lenses to the new mount? I know, I know. With an adapter. But will that adapter contain the mechanical parts to drive aperture? Cos most Nikon lens still use mechanical aperture control. Only the newest lenses have electronic control. What about the millions of manual Nikon lenses? MILC guys just love playing with old manual lenses. And the new shiny Nikon FF MILC won't support them? LMFAO and still possible...

That mechanical aperture control is built into the FX lens, isn't it?

If an adaptor advances the 'Z' (new) mount to the F mount distance and the FX lens has a mechanical aperture ring built in, what's not to work? Should be fine.

On AI lenses, there is a mechanical lever that closes the lens diaphragm from "focusing" (wide open) position to "shooting" (preset on the lens) position.

 

[fullstop]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

https://nikonrumors.com/2017/09/03/lets-start-talking-about-the-upcoming-nikon-mirrorless-camera.aspx/

quite surprising that Nikon should be able to get this adapter patented. I'd have thought that existing Sony A- to E-mount adapters LA-EA4 and previous LA-EA2 are "previous art" to this. Working principle is definitely the same and construction too. But, whatever, claptrap is claptrap. Glad I won't need one of those.

That's where Canon will have a big advantage, their EF lenses will work with a simple adapter that does not require all the claptrap to work.

Thanks! Just love that term "claptrap"! It even rhymes nicely with "mirrorslap". Even when a pellicle mirror will not slap. ;D

------------

DSLR = "claptrap with a mirror. slap slap!" ;D

 

[Jester74]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

It's not about the aperture ring, it's about driving the aperture from the body. Nikon still use mechanical coupling to drive the aperture. Is it outdated? Yeah, a little... Using it on a MILC? No, it won't be fine.

Well, interesting... But how will Nikon adapt their existing lenses to the new mount? I know, I know. With an adapter. But will that adapter contain the mechanical parts to drive aperture? Cos most Nikon lens still use mechanical aperture control. Only the newest lenses have electronic control. What about the millions of manual Nikon lenses? MILC guys just love playing with old manual lenses. And the new shiny Nikon FF MILC won't support them? LMFAO and still possible...

That mechanical aperture control is built into the FX lens, isn't it?

If an adaptor advances the 'Z' (new) mount to the F mount distance and the FX lens has a mechanical aperture ring built in, what's not to work? Should be fine.

- A

 

[Jester74]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Lotsa AF-S lenses also use mechanical coupling. Only "E" lenses have electrically controlled aperture drive. The MILC system will use only electronic contacts, I'm sure. Nikon will do what Canon did 30 years ago. The new MILC won't support every F-mount lenses for several reasons. Nikon guys will use the 'f***' word a lot... But don't worry, Joe McNally will promote it a lot all around the globe...

Well, interesting... But how will Nikon adapt their existing lenses to the new mount? I know, I know. With an adapter. But will that adapter contain the mechanical parts to drive aperture? Cos most Nikon lens still use mechanical aperture control. Only the newest lenses have electronic control. What about the millions of manual Nikon lenses? MILC guys just love playing with old manual lenses. And the new shiny Nikon FF MILC won't support them? LMFAO and still possible...

That mechanical aperture control is built into the FX lens, isn't it?

If an adaptor advances the 'Z' (new) mount to the F mount distance and the FX lens has a mechanical aperture ring built in, what's not to work? Should be fine.

On AI lenses, there is a mechanical lever that closes the lens diaphragm from "focusing" (wide open) position to "shooting" (preset on the lens) position.